jaw17

My program isn't exactly a policy PhD, but I looked at a few of them when I was applying. My general impression is that it makes more sense to go directly into a PhD program; while many applicants do have a prior MA degree, it was not originally intended as a stepping stone (e.g. they belatedly decided to go for the PhD after already beginning/completing their degree). Getting an unnecessary MPA/MPP/MA is an expensive proposition, both in terms of time and money, so I would probably recommend applying for a PhD program straight out of the gate and just casting a broader net. For example, it sounds like you would be very qualified for the new PhD program at Duke or other similar programs that are (slightly) less competitive than WWS or HKS.

djd & East of Eden: Thanks so much for the really helpful suggestions! I've added those programs to the running list

Haha - I suppose that does seem sorta sketchy. The fact of the matter is that her internet connection in Africa is very flaky and makes it hard for her to search and post here...or to do much other online research, for that matter. Which makes the entire grad school application process just that much harder, as you can imagine, so she's asked me to help out. I shudder just to think about the implications for online applications. Admittedly, I also get a kick out of living vicariously through the process, too - although my PhD program is perfect for my long-term aims, there's no question in my mind that I would enjoy an MPA program more. I get all excited and envious every time I look at a course catalog

Anybody? (Bueller?) Someone recently steered me towards the Evans School of Public Affairs at the University of Washington, which frankly seems like it offers the exact mix my friend is looking for. Can anyone share opinions on that program in particular? Thanks.

I've been helping a close friend start the grad school process, and would welcome the board's wisdom on where she should apply. Following a BA from a top 25 LAC in Francophone cultural and colonial studies (with something like a 3.97 GPA), she spent 2.5 years in DC managing international conferences on microfinance, and recently moved to Africa to work on operations and marketing for an agriculture NGO. Her GREs are 680V, 740Q, and she's already taken the requisite introductory micro and macro courses at the USDA grad school. She is looking for two key things out of a graduate program: 1) practical skills for nonprofit management (e.g. accounting, operations, probably some monitoring and evaluation, and ideally also some training-of-trainers instruction), and 2) more intellectually-oriented "content" courses, particularly with regard to international development, but also perhaps in literacy or other topical areas with both domestic and international applications. (Although she has not expressed as much, I suspect that she likes to see the direct impact of her work, and given her intention to live in the U.S. long-term, it wouldn't surprise me if she ultimately switches to a more domestic field.) I'm not sure how often those two exist under the same institutional roof, though, so I'm trying to help her identify programs with significant flexibility to take classes from multiple departments. Given her personality and preferences, I also imagine that she'd be happier in a smaller program with more individualized attention, rather than the huge classes at somewhere like SAIS, but that might be getting too picky. Can anyone suggest good IR schools, MPA programs, business schools or even education degrees that might be well-suited to these interests? Some of the ones that have caught my eye so far are: the Princeton WWS MPA; the new Columbia SIPA MPA in Development Practice; the NYU Wagner MPA in nonprofit management or their MA in international education with a concentration in cross-cultural exchanges and training; the Indiana MPA with a nonprofit concentration; or the Georgetown MPP with a concentration in nonprofit leadership. Advice very, very welcome!

If you're interested in working in policy research with a multilateral development organization, then I would highly recommend the ARE program at Maryland over an MPP. I agree with NYR's advice about asking people, but based on my own experience I would be shocked if they responded any other way. I'm sure you can always take some courses through Maryland's public policy school if you're worried about getting more qualitative analytical skills in addition to the hardcore empirical training you'd be getting with the core curriculum. More generally, you should keep in mind how competitive World Bank and UN jobs are (especially for Americans - there are quotas), so neither degree can guarantee anything...

Well, what are your specific interests? If you're at all interested in economics, then Harvard has Hopkins beat hands down. Moreover, you could still get your PhD there through the interdisciplinary health policy program (although frankly I'm not sure exactly how much more prestigious that is than the ScD in global health). Have you spoken with students in the program there?

Are the financial costs pretty comparable? If so, then I would probably lean towards Harvard, especially if you think there's any chance you might want to continue for the doctoral degree (which would be very helpful for careers in the government or think-tanks). They also have a much stronger economics component than Hopkins. My sense is that of these three, Michigan is probably the least international in scope, which combined with geography means that their research and career network is probably much more limited than the other two. If you know that there's a particular region you're interested in, then you might want to see where the respective program faculty are currently undertaking research projects, since they may be able to get you involved during the summers (and are also likely to have other contacts in those areas who might need interns). I'm assuming that you've already been admitted to all three; however, if you're deciding where to apply for the next cycle, you may also want to include the MPA/ID at Harvard to your list (and take the health electives through HSPH rather than vice versa). Similarly, the Princeton MPA program is fantastic (and funded!) and has a number of great health people. I'd love to hear more about your interests - yay international health economics!

Points all well taken, but I just wanted to clarify that the total cost we paid for the MA at Georgetown was $24k ($4k per class, with tuition waivers for the last 4 of 10 required courses). I agree that's nothing to sneeze at, though, and we did get very lucky in how everything worked out.

Zeldacrash: You might want to seriously consider applying for the Master of Arts in Global, International & Comparative History at Georgetown; I'm not sure whether they ever extended their fall deadline, but they do also accept students for the spring semester (the whole degree is 3 terms). My husband was one of the first students in that program - also for Russian/Eurasian studies - and it served him very well. You can do a search to find all of my past posts on this, rather than regurgitating them here, but suffice it to say that he is now getting his PhD at Princeton, where the generous stipend will more than make up for the costs of the master's degree.

It's pretty commutable from either Philadelphia (where I go to school) and NYC - recession aside, presumably your spouse should be able to find something in cities of that size! Princeton itself seems to be pretty much one nice suburb with a university, nearby pharmaceutical companies, and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. I am sure there are other things....but none that have crossed my own radar. EDIT: In going back and reading some of your earlier posts, mims3382, I really think you should consider living in Philadelphia and driving up to Princeton on the days that you have class. I think it would be much, much easier for your husband to find not just a job but also a social network of other Japanese expats in a major city; although I'm sure that there are many foreign nationals at either school you're considering, it also sounds like he is at a very different stage in life than the average grad student. And Philly is much more affordable and livable (IMHO, anyway) than NYC.

I'll just come out of lurking to state that Princeton history students received a $28k stipend this past year. Still a lot, but no $40k.

I agree with the advice you've gotten. But more importantly, congratulations! That's awesome news. What's the publication about?

I was a 2008 health policy PhD applicant (now at Penn's health economics program). What are you policy folks interested in, and did any of you apply to Wharton?

I'll send you a PM with some details.

09-phd: Is there a reason you're not applying to the Wharton PhD in health economics at UPenn? Depending on your specific research interests, it definitely seems like it would be a logical fit in light of your prior training.

I actually think that the demand for MPP/MPA degrees will go down in the short-term, since all the young policy-minded U.S. citizens are descending on Washington en masse in the vain hope of working in the transitional Obama administration. For those folks, the opportunity cost of sitting out the next few years on the graduate school sidelines seems pretty high. Think about the analogy to MBA programs, for example: when the economy is flush, everyone was enjoying their i-banking salaries and bonuses, but when it starts to tank they all figured that graduate school was preferable to the unemployment lines...

Frankly, if I were you I wouldn't be focusing on strengthening my application but rather on confirming that an MPA (or similar policy-oriented MPH's) is the right fit for your interests. You rightly recognize that those degrees typically position people for the nonprofit sector, but how do you know that's what you want to do if you haven't had significant work experience? A graduate degree is a pretty expensive way to break into a new field, and isn't necessary for entry-level jobs in global health. Depending on where you are going to school in the spring, I suggest you pour your energy into finding an internship with a nearby international health nonprofit organization, and/or landing a summer internship with an organization in Asia. Even if that might mean you need an extra term to graduate, I think it will significantly help your admissions chances AND enable you to make as informed a decision as possible before committing to more student loans.

Are you sure the Amtrack still stops regularly at the Princeton station? My understanding was that they cut way back on routes (which is why husband is planning to commute via car)...

Have you thought about applying directly to one of the LSE programs (as opposed to the joint degree with Columbia)? It's rolling admission, so there may still be slots available.

Thanks so much for the input! As it turns out, we're in the process of signing a lease in Fitler Square. Although it may not be the most financially or geographically logical for us (at least on paper), we absolutely fell in love with the area when we visited the city in April. I can see why you don't want to leave!

You should call - it's been long enough.

Have you looked closely at the financial issues around buying and the ways that mortgages are structured? In a 4-6 year timeframe, you probably won't save much money, if at all. There's at least 6% straight up transaction costs of using a realtor (which are directly paid on the selling end) - not even getting into the costs of moving and fixing it up. And then almost all of your monthly mortgage payments for those first few years will be interest down the drain, with only a very small portion actually accumulating as principal. On top of that, most condos have an association fee of a few hundred dollars a month. And finally, owning comes with the unexpected and unbudgeted surprises like a busted heat pump that will cost $3200 to replace in the dead of winter, or an invoice from the condo association for $2800 (12 months later) to contribute to the costs of a roof replacement. That's a lot of uncertainty to accept on a stipend, unless you're fortunate enough to have a lot in savings. In our case, we've been able to swing it while working in DC for the past 3 years, but will be going back to renting when we move up to Philadelphia (and will lease out our current place in the meantime). Hopefully we can move back down here during our dissertation phases. UPDATE: I should add that there are, of course, other non-financial reasons to buy a house. In our case, we were able to make it much more of a home - while the fixing up process was expensive and time-consuming, it was also very rewarding. And since we have dearly beloved dog, we didn't have to worry about finding a pet-friendly apartment. But we would be taking a serious financial hit if we had to sell now...and that's with a 20% downpayment.

I sent you my contact information via PM if you would like to touch base...as well as my personal statement (well, you asked!). Hopefully this will be more helpful, less confusing. Frankly, I'd find it very helpful myself to get a better sense of your own background to tailor my advice accordingly. You've given me a lot to think about in terms of where you want to end up, but not as much about where you're coming from. That gets at the heart of what you could gain from either of these programs. If, for example, you are an English or psychology major looking for an opportunity to get a broad base in global health before honing your interests, then the Hopkins MHS is a good fit to help you transition into the field. On the other hand, if you studied health policy as part of your undergrad education (like I did) and so already have that general knowledge base, then the purpose of a graduate education would be to build a more specific area of expertise and/or develop a disciplinary framework with which to approach it. For the latter scenario, the Harvard SM is a much better fit. As for the many organizations you listed as potential "landing places" - I can go on at length about all of them privately if that would be helpful, and could even put you in touch with a contact at McKinsey if you're looking for summer internships. But I would take a close look at the profile of people who currently work there and at each of the other places you named. My bet would be that very, very few of them have a master's in health - most will have a PhD (in the international organizations) or an MBA (in the private sector). If you think you'll eventually need one of those degrees anyway, I would seriously examine what you hope to gain from first getting a master's in health, as per my last paragraph - purely from a hiring perspective, multiple graduate degree do not have significant value-added. More generally, I think that a few years of professional experience where you can observe and interact with the full range of global health actors first-hand will help you better understand which types of organizations are best suited to your interests. Of course, I've been very, very fortunate to have worked at a think-tank, and so in many ways I've had the best of both the academic and professional worlds. It is very possible that I am overrating the value of "work experience" as a whole by generalizing from my fairly unique experience.

Could you clarify what you mean by the private sector? Frankly, I can't imagine that either degree will position you particularly well for that, unless you're referring primarily to the for-profit USAID contractors (JSI, MSH, etc.). The pharmaceutical industry is incredibly difficult to break into at a junior level, with few to no positions dedicated to global public health, and while the "big 5" consulting firms like McKinsey are increasingly doing work for the Gates Foundation and its grantees, they tend to look for entry-level analysts that have a broader background since they don't assign people to a specific practice. As for JHSPH's work practicum piece: Maybe I'm dense, but I've never really understood the value of that. I mean, you're going to be working after your coursework ends, anyway, right, so isn't the only difference whether you have pay the school money during that time? While I've heard nothing but praise for any of the Hopkins folks you mentioned, to my knowledge only Waters and Bishai are working on equity and access to medicines issues; the career contacts at the school as a whole are likely to be more clinical/epidemiological/programmatic than those at Harvard. And Harvard has much better connections to the private sector through HBS and HKS. Happiness, which you mentioned, should be a huge factor, and unfortunately it's just not one I'm qualified to address. But if that proves counter to my other points about the academic issues - combined with the financial ones - then that may indeed point you towards Hopkins. But another big factor is where you'll have more/better opportunities to intern during the summer and (part-time) during the academic year. You really, really need to gain some work experience or you'll have trouble finding a job after you finish your coursework (and that includes the practicum). Getting a master's right out of college can be a bit of a catch 22 - no one wants to hire you for an entry-level administrative position because you're overqualified substance-wise, but they aren't comfortable hiring you for a more advanced position because you haven't demonstrated your ability to navigate the professional environment. Frankly, if I were in your shoes (and imagining those shoes to be completely unencumbered by outside obligations), I would consider deferring for a year to get more real world experience first. Granted, it can be hard to find a job in this field no matter what stage you are in your career, and so you wouldn't want to do that without something lined up. But aside from making it easier to get a job post-graduation, that would also help you save some money and alleviate the potential debt (which is a major factor, given the low salaries) and - more importantly - get a better sense of the specific health issues you're interested in, which might help you decide between these schools, or even point towards different degrees. This depends a bit on your current level of qualifications, though - what are you majoring in at college, and have you had other internships besides Harvard (or will you this summer)? Of course, deferring is easier said than done, and given your fantastic choices you probably can't go wrong no matter how you play this. But having spent four years working on the policy and economic issues around access to medicines, I can tell you that my own interests and preferences have changed and evolved significantly, and if I had gone with my initial instincts re: graduate school I would have either wound up paying immense sums for an unnecessary masters only to end up going the PhD route anyway, or else given in to the sunk costs fallacy and just resigned myself to the glass ceiling that faces those with just masters (in my specific sub-field, anyway). Finally, I'll conclude this ramble by reiterating by suggesting the following: 1) If you are at all inclined towards the PhD, then the Harvard program is the way to go; 2) if you are pretty set against a PhD, then I would talk to Harley Feldbaum and see if you can still get into the joint degree with SAIS's international policy department, which includes a generous scholarship from the Gates Foundation and would arm you with the strongest possible combination (and least debt) for a terminal masters in global health policy this side of the Atlantic; and 3) if you're not sure, then I'd defer for a year to figure it out. P.S. I realize that this is more advice than you asked or bargained for, but I'm so excited to finally see someone on these boards that shares my interests that I've let myself get a bit carried away...