[Accepted -> Waitlisted -> eventually rejected!]

Hi guys,

Sorry for the long story, but I would like to get some opinions from you on this peculiar situation!!

I was accepted by Stanford's M.S. in statistics for fall 2010. The deadline was 4/15. I was spending a lot of time deciding between my options, and ironically I was stupid enough to miss the deadline by 32 minutes. (I submitted my reply at 00:32 a.m. on 4/16). I naively assumed that the department had received my response, but I was curious why I was never contacted by the department in the past 1 week.

It is not until yesterday that I learned my spot was offered to people who were on the waitlist, which came as a total shock to me (though this is completely my mistake!). The secretary told me that since I didn't reply through the stanford online reply system (i.e. Axess), she assumed that I was not going to attend the program so gave my spot away. She also said typically they would give an extra 24 hours for people to reply, but since I didn't reply through their system, she assume I was not going to go.

She also told me that at this point the best I can do is to hope that someone would decide not to attend the university, and that is the only way I can fill in again. (basically I am on a single person waitlist with very small chance of being accepted again).

I asked her if I could talk to the professors, and she said that these kind of things backfires the student and she wouldn't encourage me to do so. At that point I felt quite helpless, because not only my reply was 30 minutes late, it was not sent through the proper channel.

And Today.....

I tried to re-read the acceptance email today, and it says:

"You may respond to our offer of admission online via Axess at http://studentaffair...ssions/admitted..."

It is not until then that I realized the email did not specify a specific way of replying, which let me believe that sending an admission reply by email should also be feasible. It is not until then I started to speculate if the secretary even read my email (even though it was late).

I also sent her an email last week, and she did not reply. She also suggested me not to talk to the professors, is this normal? I felt like if the department is willing to take the time to review a student's profile and is willing to accept him/her, they would at least try to inform the student that the spot is going away even if the student didn't reply properly by the deadline.

Do you guys think I have a chance to ask for them to make an exception? What should I do?

I think you should definitely talk to the professors. I don't really see how this can backfire. What do you have to lose?

If there is a professor you have been in touch with, talk to him/her as discreetly as possible. If my understanding is correct, there might have been some negligence on the lady's part, so perhaps she simply does not want the faculty to know and get into trouble. Just make sure to phrase your email carefully not to get her into too much trouble since you want to maintain a decent relationship with her. The problem with Stanford's system is that it takes up to 24 hours to generate an account to be able to submit your reply, so if they had not sufficiently explained the mechanics in advance, this is something you might be able to use as a reason for your late reply.

Perhaps you should also consider the other offers you have received. You can always go back to Stanford for your doctoral degree.

[Mourning Offers That You Declined]

I know EXACTLY what you mean. I had multiple people tell me I was an idiot for making the choice I did. One friend of mine even sat me down for an entire afternoon and lectured me on why I should choose School #1, he said to go anywhere else would be "insane." Another guy I knew from school actually called me just to say, "You got into School #1 and you're not going? Wow, you're stupid."

I feel kind of silly saying this, but I saw Alice in Wonderland a couple days ago and one part struck a chord with me: all these people are telling Alice she needs to slay the Jabberwocky. Everyone's got an opinion and thinks they know better than her what she should do. Then the Queen told her, "Make sure you're making this choice for YOU and not anyone else, because although everyone's got an opinion on it now, if you go up there with that sword, you go alone."

So, forget what everyone else is telling you - you alone will hold that sword, so you alone make the choice.

Nice analogy. I think the reason why I am mourning the other offer is that in retrospect I believe I have let myself be influenced by others too much. I chose the school with more prestige over the one that I felt more excited about. What I'm feeling is a mixture of mourning and guilt, because I blame myself for not having been able to "stand my man" and stick to my initial determination. I thought I would be able to easily reject an offer from the more prestigious school and go with my gut feeling, but it turns out I was not resilient enough against the temptations from the "dark side." In that respect, I applaud your decision and determination and wish I had been as bold as you.

[This feeling is strange]

Same here. I've been experiencing this feeling, too. I've been wallowing in misery for the last 10 days or so which apparently is visible on the outside considering the many times I've heard that I look like sh*t.

But things seem to be getting better in time; even my fantasies about reverting the decision and ending up at the other school are abating a little bit. For what it's worth, I did read in another thread in the April 15th forum of one of the previous years that someone successfully reverted her decision after April 15. So I guess it's not impossible, but it's probably not advisable. Will it get rid of my problems? Will this feeling go away? I fear it might even get worse and much, much more complicated, not only the logicstic of doing so, but also my state of mind.

BTW calling this feeling "guilt" seems totally spot-on at, least in my case. After saying no to the other school, I have been feeling as if I ditched a girlfriend although I'm the bad guy. Whether it's guilt for ditching other possible selves or the fantastic people I met at the other school, I'm not sure, but it seems not all that Heidegger said is bs.

Right now, I have decided I will stick to my decision and go to the school I committed myself to. But I will leave a door open, that is, if I don't like it after the first semester or so, I'm telling myself that I can always contact the other school again and see if they would be willing to reopen my application. Luckily, I could transfer my credits to that institution, so it would not be a complete waste of time to study at the school I'm having second thoughts about.

[Losing Faith in a Program's Selectivity?]

For what it's worth, I do think this is a legitimate concern. How selective a program is, how qualified your peers are, etc. are important things that need to be taken into consideration when making your decision. The only thing is that one single example probably does not suffice to make a well informed choice. Perhaps you can draw yourself a better picture when you attend Admit Day and talk to the various people there.

[Losing Faith in a Program's Selectivity?]

I agree with JerryLandis.

There is always the occasional dud. Everywhere. Even at the best schools. On the other hand, there is also always the unrecognized genius.

My MA thesis advisor who is also the chair of his department admitted that mistakes in the admissions process happen. For instance, they would sometimes admit students with no financial award, but that student would turn out to be one the best of his cohort, better than some who got in on a full scholarship. And when I look at some of the PhD students at the place where I did my MA, I have to agree with the "occasional dud" theory even more. The admissions process just isn't infallible. I'm sure that in such cases professors ultimately realize this and regret their choices as well.

[Asian Studies 2010]

thanks very much for your reply. it's very helpful to hear about your background. congratulations on your acceptance-- it sounds like you're a great candidate.

as for my stats, i'm also an international student, with a BA from the US (an ivy league university). i have high intermediate proficiency in my two relevant research languages and am currently doing intensive language study to strengthen one of them. i don't have a MA, which seems like it might have been a strike against me from what you're saying (i guess the implication is lack of coursework and heavier requirement for funding, given that i wouldn't "just" be doing a PhD?) i have close to three years of experience being abroad in asia. i had a high GPA similar to yours and graduated phi beta kappa, although despite this, i also feel my application could have been weakened by irregularities in my coursework, as well as lack of grounding in literature and critical theory. i had high GRE scores and three LORs from very well-known professors in my fields of interest. i thought i had a pretty strong and focused SOP as well. i don't think i'm a flawless candidate, but i thought my application was strong and interesting. but it looks like i'm likely shut out of all PhD programs this year. sigh.

Thanks for sharing your stats. I'm sure that things will work out eventually. In my case, it took 2 years, but it was definitely worth it. I'm happy that I didn't get into any school back then and potentially had to settle for less because now I can virtually choose among the best programs in the country.

I heard from my graduate director that more and more students moving into PhD programs already have MAs. Getting into a PhD program with only a BA is certainly possible, but if you have to compete with guys who have already proven to be capable of doing graduate work, then I guess that might be a disadvantage. I'm not sure if students with MAs are necessarily cheaper since most of the time you get 5 year funding from the department, period. Anything beyond those 5 years you mostly have to take care of yourself through outside fellowships etc.

Also, the fact that you are an international student often times works against you when applying to public schools since for some reason international students are "more expensive." I got lucky with UCLA, but that is the exception, not the norm. After all, I got a rejection from Toronto since they were apparently not allowed to accept international students this year due to this very reason. Anyhow, I would recommend to any international student to focus on the rich private schools in the future.

[Asian Studies 2010]

UCLA ALC decisions are out it seems-- a couple acceptances in the results section. I didn't hear anything, so I guess I didn't get in-- really upsetting as it was my first choice. For those who did get in, would you mind sharing your stats or any info you have on the acceptance stats? I'd like to think about how I can improve my application for the future...

I got into this program with full funding. I'm an international student (BA abroad, MA in the US) fluent in the research language, so I think that might have been a plus. Also, having an MA seems advantageous. Two years ago I was rejected everywhere, but now with an MA from a pretty good school, I have already received offers from my top 3 choices besides UCLA. In addition, my MA studies enabled me to work with probably one of the biggest names in my field and get a pretty strong LOR from him. What is more, my MA studies helped me polish my research agenda and write a very well-received SOP.

I think numerical stats such as GRE scores and GPAs alone are not decisive. Although my GRE score is pretty high(above 1500) and GPA as well(around 3.9), they did not get me anywhere 2 years ago. If you are willing to put one or two years into an MA (if you don't have one already), polish your research topic and SOP, and work hard to impress a big name in your field for a strong LOR, I'm sure you will be able to get into any program you want.

I'm not sure if this answer is helpful, but if you perhaps share a bit more of your own stats, I might be able to help a bit more.

[History 2010]

Who's the Stanford admit? What field?

C'est moi.

I'm doing East Asian history, particularly Korea under Japanese colonial rule. Got an unofficial email immediately followed by a phone call from professor of interest.

[The "if we admit you, will you accept" question]

So I thought about this.

"If we make you an offer would you absolutely, positively say yes?"

"Is that absolutely, positively an offer of admission?"

And there you go.

What if he/she says yes, this is absolutely, positively an offer of admission? Would you be able to say yes I would absolutely, positively accept that offer?

[The "if we admit you, will you accept" question]

Yeah I was recently asked the same question by a target faculty. He was very specific though, leaving me not much room to equivocate. After telling me about how they could make only one round of offers with no waiting list, he asked me if I would choose his school or school x if I got an offer from both. Direct as I am, I ended up giving him a straightforward answer: Sir, IF I get a good offer from school x, I would feel more tempted to pick them over you. It kind of seemed like the right thing to do, that is, being honest with him since he was a nice guy and I would like to stay in contact with him wherever I go. But it might not have been the smartest thing to do.

[Do you regret picking one school over another?]

Since many people have such a hard time deciding which school to choose, I was just wondering if that kind of agony continues after making your choice. Do you regret choosing one school over another after you already enrolled or attended the first months of school? I'm just curious if the thought "If I had only picked that other school...." haunts people ever after.

[New hobbies?]

Play videogames.

Especially those that I missed in the last 8 years or so ever since I graduated from High school and my Nintendo 64.

[Does it ever happen?]

Hi guys,

I was just wondering if it ever happens that you get good feedback on your application from your target faculty, he/she is really enthusiastic about you and tells you that he/she will do everything to get you in, but you still get rejected?

Just curious if it ever happened to anyone.

[overlong writing sample - what should I do?]

Thanks, guys. I think you're right and I should not choose option 3. So option 1 or 2 it is. Let's see what my advisor has to say.

[overlong writing sample - what should I do?]

Hi guys,

I just recently got my MA and it seems all my target faculty expect me to use my MA thesis as writing sample. I intend to use it too, since it most effectively demonstrates my research skills.

However, most schools have put a limit on the writing sample length, which ranges from 15 to 25 pages. My thesis, however is 50 pages long.

I think there are three options for me to choose:

1. send the whole thesis and indicate the pages I want the adcomm to read.

2. send excerpts from my thesis and fit it into the page limit.

3. rewrite my thesis summing up the main points so that it fits into the page limit.

What do you guys think about each option? What have you done or what would you do?

Thanks for your input!

[Applying to junior professors?]

What field are you in? Are you applying to MA or PhD programs?

I'm in history, applying to PhD programs.

[Applying to junior professors?]

Hey guys,

I have identified a couple of professors that I would love to apply to.

The thing is that many of them are really young assistant professors and I would guess they do not have much say in admission decisions. Or do they? How strategically smart is it to apply to such junior professors? Compared to those old senior professors, to what extent can junior professors pick their own students? Does anyone know how much junior professors participate in admission related decisions?

PS: BTW I'm in history, applying to PhD programs.

[list schools that accept LORs through Interfolio!]

I'm currently in the process of applying to several schools and one thing that annoys me is that many schools don't clearly indicate on their homepages if they receive electronic delivery of letters of recommendation through online dossier services such as Interfolio.

I'm contacting each department individually to find out, but it takes like forever until I get a response, usually one that totally misses the point.

I think many more out there are having the same problem so I thought we should glean all the information we have for our own applications and for posterity, of course.

Let me start. The schools that I know accept electronic delivery of LORs through Interfolio are:

Columbia and UChicago

Now your turn, if you don't mind.

[Chicago - MAPSS]

Thanks a lot, rollinson! Lots of good information!

I think you pointed out a very important aspect: discrimination between MAs and PhDs. That's what I'm the most concerned about right now. If I am paying out of my own pocket, then I also want to receive the proper treatment. Are many MAPSS students disgruntled because they don't or are they generally satisfied with the treatment they get?

[Chicago - MAPSS]

OK. Got accepted at MAPSS with some financial support as well.

As many others, I was curious how "selective" this program truly is. So, I asked the staff there how many students usually get admitted and how many actually accept the offer. The answer that I got was that there is an average of 160-170 students each year and 50% of admitted students actually enroll. Also, a total of 876 applications were reviewed this year. Just by these numbers, the program does not seem to be very selective, but I would like to hear your opinion as I am seriously considering accepting the offer.

So, how "good" do you think is this program? Also, to those who actually studied there, could you share your experience as well as personal opinion with us? What were the pros and cons of the program? Were you satisfied with it? Did it actually help you with your career? Thanks guys!

[Plan B: What to do when rejected EVERYWHERE?]

I know that a lot of people have discussed it before, but now that rejections are rolling in for real, the possibility that we all wanted to avoid seems more and more likely to become an actuality to some.

I'm not being a defeatist here, I just think it's time, at least for me, to face reality and truly start devising a Plan B. That's why I am curious about what you guys think. What plans do you have in mind in case you get rejected everywhere? Are there any people to whom this happened in previous years? How did you deal with it? What did you do?

[while i'm (we're) waiting, give me your opinion please.]

Yes. Go for it!

[2008 Anthro PhD Applicants]

I see someone got in at Berkeley. Congrats!

Based on the fact that I haven't heard anything from them, I guess I didn't make it.

Well, that makes 2 rejections so far and 9 more schools to go!

[Philosophy Admissions 2008]

Congrats to those who got in at Pitt!

I applied there too, but based on the fact that I haven't heard anything from them, I guess I didn't make it.

Anyway, does anyone know if there is something like a quota for international students at philosophy programs or any other program in general? I'm an international applicant myself, and I was just wondering...

[From BA straight to PhD? What are the chances?]

Why are you applying to two totally unrelated fields? What are your academic interests. For philosophy programs, you need to have a solid background in philosophy to get into a top program.

Call it an inner struggle.

I do have a BA in philosophy, though.

The problem with me is that although I would like to conduct graduate studies in anthropology, which I think does present opportunities to apply philosophical thinking, I still have this lingering attachment to philosophy which I cannot shed off easily.

So I am applying to both fields, and leaving the rest up to fate. Of course, I had to write two different SOPs and writing samples, but, hey, it really felt good to study again after more than 3 years in the military.

But to answer your question, my philosophical and anthropological interests do overlap:

In anthropology, I am concerned with racism, cultural conflicts, and the problem of the representation of the other,

and in philosophy, my focus is the philosophy of the other, and how an ethical relationship with the other is possible.

I hope this doesn't sound too far-fetched.