Revolution

In terms of the joint degree, you asked the $64,000 question, something i'm dying to know. If I don't get into mba this year i'm wondering if being a first-year at sais would help my chances, but from what i've gathered the answer is No. First, because sais is so much less selective than top b-schools, simply being at sais is not really going to help you. Also if you're not applying to one of the joint degree partners (wharton/insead/tuck/darden/stanford) they might wonder why you want an mba.

So true. As much as I love harvard, sais is a better fit for my finance interests than HKS is. I think HKS is really for those with interest in public service and domestic policy, so for someone like me it's simply not worth paying full sticker for unless i could do a joint mba with a top b-school.

Thanks for this. Their response to who attends career fairs is a bit alarming. Do they just not want to divulge that info or do they simply not keep track of it? I asked these questions to Bahar in admissions office, and she told me to just look at the career placement info. Um, I know how to f*cking find a page. I need specific information that will help me make my decision in the coming weeks. It was maddening. The career treks sound cool. I mean academically there's no question that SAIS is a better fit for me than HKS and with the fellowship it makes it a no brainer if i had to do policy alone. Hopefully i can get into an mba program and can do a joint degree or just mba. Regarding your last paragraph, I am under no illusion that SAIS recruiting is anything like MBA. The difference is literally night and day. But if the companies i'm interested in at least post jobs in the board and there are alums at those firms who are open to helping me out, then i will just work my ass off for 2 years to get what i want. If i do go to SAIS, i imagine that i will have almost no social life and will be 110% obsessed with the job search.

What's NSEP? Is there by any chance a listing of the firms coming to the job fair?

Thanks for this summary. It was quite helpful. Did they give any detail on what type of treks they went on? Were these all geared towards public sector/government or were any of them oriented towards say finance? Do any private sector firms actually recruit on campus, or do they merely post jobs in the sais job board? I e-mailed admissions office, but they were very unhelpful with these specific questions.

I'm not willing to take out more than $100K for any degree except top 10 MBA programs. Thankfully SAIS did give me half tuition fellowship so worst case scenario I can go there, although far from ideal.

I tend to agree with you and AUSAJAG. But I want to play devil's advocate and see what you guys think. 1. Althought not HBS or HLS, harvard name brand still goes a long way, especially abroad 2. HKS students, especially MPA2, can take classes at other harvard departments, as well as hbs and mit, and thus taking advantage of those resources. 3. HKS does reasonably well in consulting and some other private sector jobs.

Financial aid will be released in a few weeks, but HKS rarely gives funding. Any of you guys joint MBA applicants?

If the MBB position is at the analyst level, $10K seems right. For associates (this is post-mba or phd usually) the annual bonus is around $30K. My best friend who is graduating from a top b-school this year will be making roughly $200K all-in next year as a MBB consultant.

I agree that fletcher is on a different level than elliott. However, I think you overestimate the importance of being in boston. So fletcher students get to "interact" with MIT, HLS, HBS students. Ok, so what? I guess you can take classes there, but you won't get to enjoy the main benefits of their career services, access to recruiting and jobs, etc. And you probably won't be able to attend most of their company presentations and other events either.

According to this page, SAIS median public sector salary is $61K while private sector is only $4k higher, at $65K! http://www.sais-jhu.edu/career-services/employment-outcomes If you look at this page, it shows the companies that hired SAIS students. http://www.sais-jhu.edu/career-services/employment-outcomes Some of them are very reputable banks and consulting firms, so I'm puzzled as to why the median is so low. My guess is that since most SAIS students don't have private sector experience, they're being recruited at the analyst level and getting paid what someone straight out of college would be making. This make me wonder then what the salary would be like for an older person with actual private sector experience, particularly in finance. Would this person be able to get into one of these firms as an associate or a senior analyst, making around $90-110K? These are questions I need to ask career services this week.

Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff. I'm going to assume the average range is the middle 80%. Even for financial services/trade, the average salary is a meager 50-60K. Holy cow. Are these people like getting jobs as bank tellers at the local bank of america branch?

I'm gonna try to talk to career services this week and get more info on this since career placement is my primary concern. I am also interested to hear about whether first-year SAIS students had success in applying to top business schools.

I agree with biscuits. Although the harvard name brand is huge, we're talking about policy programs here, not harvard business or law school. Think VERY carefully about amassing $100K+ debt before going to a policy program. They charge outrageous tuition, are stingy with funding, and provide little economic value to the students in return. It's sort of a pseudo-scam in this regard where the HKS people are using the overall harvard name to trick you guys.

The Mason program does seem to cater to people with LOTS of experience, so perhaps that hurt you guys? Not an expert on this but basing it upon a mason guy i met last summer. He did stanford business, worked at goldman and IFC in hong kong before doing the program. He told me that there were a lot of high-profile internationals who held very important positions in their programs, along with Americans with tons of experience. He described the mason program as a goldmine for networking. Hope MPA2 comes out on monday. Just want to get it over with.

Never hurts to ask, but i doubt SAIS will give stipend for the open house.

I'm expecting a base of at least $90K, given my years of finance experience.

I have very specific career goals actually and have told them to a few people through pm. I don't want to divulge them here because i'm afraid of getting outed in real life. Sorry for being paranoid about this, but i'm basically interested in a specific area of finance that is NOT banking or private equity. The social stuff is secondary but it's still very important to me for personal reasons. Yes, I mean every word that I write.

Perhaps you're right. We shall see once all the results are in. On one hand, there's a reason why i only applied to sais and hks for policy. After doing tons of research i arrived at the conclusion that both those programs are well suited for me academically and COULD get me to where i need to go. Obviously not as easy as an MBA but totally doable. Plus everyone i talked to raved about hks and sais. On the other hand though, I know for a fact that I will have a HUGE chip on my shoulders if I do just policy and not a top MBA. I will be hearing stories of my MBA friends' professional success as well as their crazy partying and travelling stories, and I know that I will feel deeply inadequate and insecure. Plus, attractive well-educated women LOVE guys at top MBA programs, and they probably won't take me seriously if I'm just a ir/policy student.

Yes, I've already reached out to the admissions office regarding getting in touch with students and might attend the open house. A lot of people have taken offense to my statements on SAIS, so let me clarify a few things. First, I have no doubt that SAIS students are smart, accomplished, and overall good people. My comments were not ad hominem attacks on them. Second, I did say that I'm not sure if I could learn much from them. My point is this. Given that I'm older and have a lot of experience in a very niche area of finance, while the average SAIS student will only have around 2-3 years of experience, almost entirely in the public sector, it will be difficult for me to find classmates who share my professional goals. So from a networking standpoint, it will be tough. If I don't get into any mba programs, and I end up at SAIS, I will probably spend most of my time hustling like a madman to get the kind of job i want. It will be a very painful 2 years, nothing like the nonstop partying, travelling, and getting girls, that a top MBA entails. So I do not think SAIS will be an enjoyable experience at all, but they did give me a fellowship, and if I arrive at the conclusion that it will help me achieve my goals, I may have to attend. Now, I pray to the MBA gods to make my fantasies come true. The mere thought of the SICK transformational experience at a top b-school sends chills down my spine.

Calm down chief. I applied to both mba and policy programs in hopes of doing a joint degree since my interests are at the intersection of the two.

I've heard the 30% number as well, but it seems like almost everyone on gradcafe has gotten in. I guess SAIS just isn't that selective at all. Makes me question the caliber of the students there.

brooklyn11, Thanks for the very informative and honest post on SIPA. I think everyone found it very useful. What you said corroborates what I've heard from alums and students as well. You're really going to have to hustle hard to get a job you want since career services is so awful. You mentioned that you shouldn't rely on career services or degree alone to get a job. While that is true at a general level, the on-campus recruiting at a top b-school such as Columbia is SUPERB. From the moment you step foot on campus they really prepare you to get a great job since their very reputation depends on it. You are inundated with campus visits from top companies throughout all industries, and it really becomes an embarrassment of riches. I guess this is where policy programs fall short; there is virtually no on-campus recruiting or visits by private sector companies, so someone who's interested in that space has to spend 2 years hustling like a chicken with its head cut off, just to land interviews.

Did you apply to the MPA2 program? I thought e-mails go out at around 5 PM eastern time. EDIT: oops. I see that you applied to MC-MASON.