office hours

[plugandsocket]

Regarding attending your advisor/professor's office hours: 

My advisor has office hours from 2:30-4:00 once a week. So yesterday I came by around 3:10 and there were no other students there. I told him that I had a few questions and asked whether this was a good time or if I should come back later. He told me that this was fine so we talked until 4:00, the end of his office hours. I asked for help outlining the structure of my first ever lecture next week and he gave me suggestions (it's not like we were just casually catching up or chatting). Then this morning I got an angry email from him saying that an undergraduate waited nearly an hour to see him during his office hours because I was in his office. 

The student never poked his or her head in or stood at the doorway to wave or otherwise indicate that he or she was waiting so neither myself nor my advisor knew anyone was there. So I'm not quite sure why this is my fault or why he felt that it was appropriate to send me an email blaming me for the student having to wait. By itself, this wouldn't be a huge deal but it comes in a long string of things that my advisor seems to find fault with me over petty things to blame me for. I'm not quite sure how to respond. 

[TakeruK]

I don't even know what to say. It's not your responsibility to manage how your advisor uses their office hours and even if the undergrad waved or poked their head in, it's not your job to check if there are others waiting or how your advisor's time should be spent. Ultimately, it should have been their decision to cut you off at say, 3:30, if they wanted to leave time for other students.

That said, I don't think there is much to be gained from arguing this point. Maybe our fields are different, but I never meet with my advisor during their office hours (which are for the students in their classes). Instead, I schedule separate meetings with my advisor. We have a weekly 30-minute time slot that we use pretty much every week for topics ranging from my research to job application to help outlining a lecture. Each advisor does things differently, but my advisor generally has 8 or so of these meetings per week with their students and postdocs (sometimes meeting twice per week when a project is at a critical point) and they have blocked off 2 half-days, arranged all of these meetings back-to-back and we sign up for these time slots each semester (since teaching schedules etc changed each semester). This is all in addition to their 1-2 hour per week office hours (reserved for the grad and undergrad students taking their classes).

Maybe one possible way to respond would be to say that you regret that the student was not able to meet with the prof (without taking blame) and suggest that in the future, you and the prof can arrange for a meeting outside of office hours when you need their advice? Again, exactly what you suggest depends on the norms of your department! But scheduling a meeting to discuss a specific topic when you need your advisor's undivided attention could be a good idea anyways, even if this weird situation didn't happen.

[rising_star]

1) The undergrad needs to learn to be more proactive. This isn't entirely on you, IMO.

2) I would try to schedule regular (weekly, biweekly, or at least monthly) check-ins with your advisor where you can go over some of the same things you did during office hours. Or ask if they'd prefer if you made an appointment during office hours.

3) In the future, you may want to do check-ins every 15-20 minutes by asking "Am I taking up too much of your time right now?" or "Would it be better if I made an appointment so we can discuss X some other time?"

[plugandsocket]

8 hours ago, TakeruK said:

I don't even know what to say. It's not your responsibility to manage how your advisor uses their office hours and even if the undergrad waved or poked their head in, it's not your job to check if there are others waiting or how your advisor's time should be spent. Ultimately, it should have been their decision to cut you off at say, 3:30, if they wanted to leave time for other students.

Thank you. I agree! 

8 hours ago, TakeruK said:

We have a weekly 30-minute time slot that we use pretty much every week for topics ranging from my research to job application to help outlining a lecture. Each advisor does things differently, but my advisor generally has 8 or so of these meetings per week with their students and postdocs (sometimes meeting twice per week when a project is at a critical point) and they have blocked off 2 half-days, arranged all of these meetings back-to-back and we sign up for these time slots each semester (since teaching schedules etc changed each semester). This is all in addition to their 1-2 hour per week office hours (reserved for the grad and undergrad students taking their classes).

Ahh, this would be my dream. But unfortunately my advisor would never in a million years be willing to spend that much time on students. Asking for a weekly meeting would probably be met with the same look as if I asked him to pull out his personal checkbook and write me a blank check. 

8 hours ago, TakeruK said:

Maybe one possible way to respond would be to say that you regret that the student was not able to meet with the prof (without taking blame) and suggest that in the future, you and the prof can arrange for a meeting outside of office hours when you need their advice? Again, exactly what you suggest depends on the norms of your department! But scheduling a meeting to discuss a specific topic when you need your advisor's undivided attention could be a good idea anyways, even if this weird situation didn't happen.

Yeah, I'm wondering if I just need to ask for time outside of office hours. Which might be doable, as long as I didn't ask frequently. 

1 hour ago, rising_star said:

1) The undergrad needs to learn to be more proactive. This isn't entirely on you, IMO.

Yes, thank you. I totally agree. 

1 hour ago, rising_star said:

2) I would try to schedule regular (weekly, biweekly, or at least monthly) check-ins with your advisor where you can go over some of the same things you did during office hours. Or ask if they'd prefer if you made an appointment during office hours.

3) In the future, you may want to do check-ins every 15-20 minutes by asking "Am I taking up too much of your time right now?" or "Would it be better if I made an appointment so we can discuss X some other time?"

Good thoughts. Thanks.