Interaction with Potential Adviser

[fallfish]

I need advice on how to take this interaction I had with a potential PhD adviser, call him professor A. I have been admitted to the program, due to his support and suggestion to the powers that be that I should be admitted. Professor A spoke with me several times prior to me submitting my application and he even spent time helping me apply for the NSF-GRFP. He was even a letter writer for the application. Sounds good, right? Sounds like he wants to work with me, right? 

Well, not so sure. I had a conversation with him just the other day via Skype after I had been admitted. We discussed my questions regarding funding options, which he said he had none at the moment. Ok, fine. Then I mention, well hopefully I get the NSF-GRFP and he responds, we would definitely take you then, but had to correct himself and say well we would take you either way...awkward. 

Then later in the conversation, he tries to make small talk with me and asks me how my masters work is going...I completed my masters in 2014. I have been working for the past 4ish years all of this information is obviously in my application materials (transcripts, CV, essays, etc.)...not even sure what to make of this.

It's also hard because I have also been admitted to another school where the potential adviser, professor B, is super interested and is trying really hard to get me to come work with him. He wants me to tell him about other offers I get so they can make better ones to get me to go there. He has invited me to come visit for an event and even said I could start this summer. 

These interactions are so drastically different that it makes me wonder if professor A is going to be a good adviser or not and now I am feeling not so great about our potential relationship. Especially considering how interested professor B is. The school where professor A is at was my top choice, but now I am no so sure. Does he actually care if I come there if he can be so careless with what he remembers about me as an applicant? Help! 

Edited February 8, 2018 by fallfish

[TakeruK]

53 minutes ago, fallfish said:

I need advice on how to take this interaction I had with a potential PhD adviser, call him professor A. I have been admitted to the program, due to his support and suggestion to the powers that be that I should be admitted. Professor A spoke with me several times prior to me submitting my application and he even spent time helping me apply for the NSF-GRFP. He was even a letter writer for the application. Sounds good, right? Sounds like he wants to work with me, right? 

Yes!

53 minutes ago, fallfish said:

Well, not so sure. I had a conversation with him just the other day via Skype after I had been admitted. We discussed my questions regarding funding options, which he said he had none at the moment. Ok, fine. Then I mention, well hopefully I get the NSF-GRFP and he responds, we would definitely take you then, but had to correct himself and say well we would take you either way...awkward. 

I wouldn't worry about this awkwardness. I think Prof A is just really hopeful that you will get the NSF-GRFP and is letting you know that basically you're in his group for sure if you get that. Shortly afterwards, he must have realised that sounded like he would only take you if you got the GRFP so he corrected himself. However, the important takeaway message is that he has no funding for you right now. That may change with successful grants and such, but this means you'll probably be funded via departmental sources such as TAships. I'd certainly factor this into the decision.

56 minutes ago, fallfish said:

Then later in the conversation, he tries to make small talk with me and asks me how my masters work is going...I completed my masters in 2014. I have been working for the past 4ish years all of this information is obviously in my application materials (transcripts, CV, essays, etc.)...not even sure what to make of this.

It's unfortunate that he doesn't know all the details of your application. Some people are just very absent-minded or maybe he had a lot on his mind that day, or he is just awkward about these things. In addition, there's no reason to expect the prof to remember the details of your application package---you probably spent a ton of time on it but they read it over very quickly and probably has not looked at it again since then. There are two scenarios to consider here:

1. Prof A may just be this absent-minded all the time to everyone and is very bad at small talk, it's not personal. So you just have to decide if this working relationship is a good fit for you. Remember that your advisor doesn't need to be your friend but you do need to feel like they support you. I know lots of people with super awkward advisors and they never ever talk about anything other than work/research because it just gets so painful. This could be fine since these people find mentorship from other people for things like career advice etc. It's probably better to have a nice and supportive advisor with cringe-worthy small talk conversations than a smooth talker that is very charismatic but doesn't actually care about your success at all. I also know a lot of people with advisors that are charismatic but unsupportive and they wished they made a different choice in the past.

However, if you feel the dynamic does not work for you and would get in the way of getting what you need from your advisor, then that's a good reason to consider someone else!

2. Prof A may not be that interested in you after all and these are signs that he won't really care about you as a student.

Based on the other information here, it sounds more like (1) than (2). Prof A spent a lot of time with you earlier to help with the application process etc. But you know your interactions best, and even if it's (1), as I said above, you might prefer a different dynamic.

1 hour ago, fallfish said:

It's also hard because I have also been admitted to another school where the potential adviser, professor B, is super interested and is trying really hard to get me to come work with him. He wants me to tell him about other offers I get so they can make better ones to get me to go there. He has invited me to come visit for an event and even said I could start this summer. 

These interactions are so drastically different that it makes me wonder if professor A is going to be a good adviser or not and now I am feeling not so great about our potential relationship. Especially considering how interested professor B is. The school where professor A is at was my top choice, but now I am no so sure. Does he actually care if I come there if he can be so careless with what he remembers about me as an applicant? Help! 

It's great that you have a Prof B to also consider. I think what I said above about the balance between interactions with your advisor vs. how much you think your advisor will support you. I think having someone show interest in you attending is nice, but it's not the be all and end all. Sometimes people are very different when they want you to make a decision in their favour than when you actually make the decision. Prof B sounds great, so I'd look into what it might be like to work for Prof B. If you can visit and talk to the profs, scope out the feel of the lab/group and talk to students, that would be really helpful. 

In any case, it does sound like you have two profs (both A and B ) that have shown interest in you and spent time trying to convince you to come. It's a matter now of deciding which prof's style fits you better. Just keep in mind that many people believe in a mentoring network approach to training, and you are able to find mentorship/advising from other people on campus besides your advisor, if it turns out your advisor is lacking in some areas of mentorship you might like. Even if your advisor is wonderful, it's still a good idea to develop several mentors over the course of your graduate degree and hear different perspectives.

[FishNerd]

In this whole process of applications I have often gone to my master's advisor to seek her advice on things. On choosing a potential advisor she has told me time and time again to go with what my instinct is telling me about my interactions with a potential advisor. Most people know how to read interactions well and if you are getting a bad feeling about Professor A I would trust that. I ended up being encouraged to apply to a POI's lab but in the end did not apply because he said several things during my phone interview that rubbed me the wrong way (at one point he came off super arrogant and judgemental about my master's project and he pretty much told me that he judged me for asking if I would have office space as a PhD student).

However, I did just see TakeruK's response and I do think they have a good point that your somewhat off interactions with Professor A could just be a result of awkwardness and absent-mindedness but it may be hard to judge from just the handful of interactions you have had with Professor A. What I would suggest if you have the ability is to try and make an in-person visit to both schools so you can assess which advisor you think you might click with the best (since in-person interactions should be a lot less awkward). I would also recommend trying to talk (either by email, phone or in-person on a visit - and of course away from the professor) with both of these professor's students so you can get a student's perspective about that professor as an advisor and what it's like being in that professor's lab.

Edited February 8, 2018 by FishNerd

[TakeruK]

29 minutes ago, FishNerd said:

In this whole process of applications I have often gone to my master's advisor to seek her advice on things. On choosing a potential advisor she has told me time and time again to go with what my instinct is telling me about my interactions with a potential advisor. Most people know how to read interactions well and if you are getting a bad feeling about Professor A I would trust that. I ended up being encouraged to apply to a POI's lab but ended not because he said several things during my phone interview that rubbed me the wrong way (at one point he came off super arrogant and judgemental about my master's project and he pretty much told me that he judged me for asking if I would have office space as a PhD student).

However, I did just see TakeruK's response and I do think they have a good point that your somewhat off interactions with Professor A could just be a result of awkwardness and absent-mindedness but it may be hard to judge from just the handful of interactions you have had with Professor A. What I would suggest if you have the ability is to try and make an in-person visit to both schools so you can assess which advisor you think you might click with the best (since in-person interactions should be a lot less awkward). I would also recommend trying to talk (either by email, phone or in-person on a visit - and of course away from the professor) with both of these professor's students so you can get a student's perspective about that professor as an advisor and what it's like being in that professor's lab.

To clarify, yes, I do think you should trust your instincts! If you feel someone is arrogant/judgemental or have said questionable things, I'd go with my gut and run. I didn't sense that in the original post though, but you don't have to share everything here, so certainly go with your instinct. And definitely visit if possible.

[FishNerd]

@TakeruK After reading the original post again I do think Professor A's actions mainly just come off as absentmindedness or awkward and perhaps I was reading a little too much into it after some of my less than ideal interactions during my application process. It's a huge deal that Professor A put the time in to help with the NSF GRFP and his interest in you, @fallfish, should not be ignored. I definitely think you should keep both of your options open going forward because they both sound like they could be great options.

Also I just thought I would throw it out there that my undergrad research advisor could be very awkward at times (he would even talk and joke about how awkward he was haha) but he definitely helped me get where I am today. Also as we got to know each other more through working together small talk with him wasn't awkward anymore.

[fallfish]

Thank you both for your helpful insight. It is a very difficult decision. For some reason I thought getting in was the hard part!  

I have already visited Prof B and met all of his students. I still wasn't sure after meeting him in person where I stood, but now that he has accepted me I feel a little differently. There were a few things he had said that rubbed me the wrong way, but like I said I feel differently about that interaction now that I know he wants me to work in his lab (he said something about not assuming meeting him meant I was automatically in and it was just the way he said it). My conversations with prof B have definitely been more fluid and easy, but not without their awkwardness here and there. I also really liked his students and they raved about him and said he was amazing and everything they'd hoped for in an adviser. 

Prof A, I have not met in person nor his students, but I have spoken to a couple of his students on the phone. I do plan on making a visit too. Prof A's students both said similar things as the students for professor B, that he was great and they had no complaints. One of his current PhD students even worked with him as an undergrad and he told me she gave up MIT and Stanford to come work with him for her PhD (This is still a good school I am talking about, don't get me wrong, but not quite at MIT and Stanford level) so I feel like that is saying something. I am hoping when I meet him in person I will be more equipped to decide where I am leaning.   

[FishNerd]

22 hours ago, fallfish said:

I am hoping when I meet him in person I will be more equipped to decide where I am leaning.   

I definitely think doing that should help. I haven't yet met either of my prospective professors in person where I've been accepted and I'm definitely holding out final decision making until I make my visits. Hopefully those visits will help immensely in deciding!