My two polar opposite program options both have major cons

[megtree]

I've applied to four different professional degrees (MPA); I've been accepted into my two less desirable programs and I haven't heard from my two top choice programs.The first round offers for my two top schools have already gone out and I didn't receive an offer, although, I also didn't receive a rejection letter like others who applied. I assume I'm on internal waiting lists, but with each passing day, it looks less and less likely I will receive an offer from either of these desired programs.

So, while I'm hoping for the best, I'm now preparing for the worst and I'm trying to weigh the two less-desirable programs I've been offered admissions to. 

School A: International program that I'd have to move abroad for. I'm very enthusiastic about this opportunity; I'd love to live in Europe and I think the experience as a whole would be wonderful. The program closely aligns with my career interests, has a top-notch faculty, and I think I'd be able to develop an international professional network that would benefit me once I've established a career for myself in my home country. There's an internship component of the program, which is great, but it wouldn't help me bridge into a job in my home country following graduation. As a result, I think a short period of unemployment following graduation is likely if I were to attend this program. This program could give me opportunities to work abroad though, so unemployment following graduation isn't a guarantee. Additionally, I'd likely have higher profile internship options at this school, so I'd potentially graduate with a more attractive resume if I were to attend this school. The biggest con with this program is the cost. It's a private school and I did not receive a funding offer. I will likely have to take on  $70,000- $90,000 in student debt (local currency is fluctuating/unstable) and the program's tuition is excessive/the cost of living is high. Government student loans would only cover $30,000, so I'd have to take a private loan of credit to cover the rest of the costs. I have an extremely low tolerance for debt; I haven't saved much, however, I worked f/t throughout my bachelors degree so I've managed to stay debt free. My stomach tightens at the thought of having to pay student debt off for 15 years. The opportunity cost of this kind of debt just seems too high. The fact I may not be able to bridge into full-time employment after graduation increases my anxiety about accepting this massive debt-load. So, long story short, I'm delighted by the prospect of attending this program but the debt associated with it is an irreconcilable Achilles heel.

School B: Not as aligned with my career interests, none of the faculty's research interests me, BUT, it would grant me the degree I need to move up in my field. The program is of lower quality compared to the other programs I applied for, but it's still a respectable school; it just lacks the network potential and wont open as many doors for me as every other program I applied for. Program B is located in my home country, but I would have to move to an absolutely dreadful location to attend this school. I seriously hate the idea of moving to this area; I wont be excited to attend this program due to: 1) the harsh environment/climate this school is located at is not compatible with my beloved outdoor hobbies (this thought REALLY bums me out); 2) the lower quality of life in this area of the country (higher crime, higher poverty, racial tensions etc), and; 3) the inability to really tailor my education to suit my interests. With that said, it is incredibly likely that I'll be able to bridge into a job relevant to my career interests immediately after graduation, but more likely than not, I'll be offered a job in the area that I'm dreading moving to. The cost of the program is 1/10th the cost of Program A and there is a 1yr long paid internship built into the program. Additionally, the cost of living in this area reflects how undesirable of a place it is to live (quite inexpensive), so all in all, I'd graduate with very little debt in comparison to program A ($10,000 or less), and I'll have more opportunities to start building my career as soon as I graduate.

 

I'm very conflicted. The debt-adverse side of me says "Suck it up. Attend program B and accept that the next three years of your life will likely be unenjoyable but that's a small price to pay to get you closer to your dream job. Change your poor attitude and make the best of this situation". However, the dreamer in me argues "Your life has already been unenjoyable for the last five yrs working yourself to the bone to graduate without debt; you've wasted your youth with this grind. You deserve to attend a program that you're excited about and you shouldn't settle for anything less. There are no big rewards without risks; just try taking some risks for once". Then the debt-adverse side pipes up, "you're too neurotic to live with that kind of debt. It will make you miserable.", and so on, and so on.

Then I have two other coexisting internal arguments that say, "Fuck it. Neither of these programs are a great fit for you. You have a decent paying job now, you love the area you currently reside in, and it's not the end of the world to delay entrance and try again next year." and the other voice responds, "you're almost 30 and you're still miles from your dream job. Grad applications are a god damn nightmare and you'd have to be a masochist to unnecessarily subject yourself to this process again next year; there's no guarantee you'll even be accepted into a program next year. Your job is unfulfilling and your career stagnation makes you miserable, so don't you dare spin your wheels for another year. Pick a school". 

The internal chatter continues in circles all day and all night. It's exhausting.

I've been given a decision extension by School B, so I now have a hard deadline of two weeks to make a decision. As a neurotic person with GAD (as you've likely gathered), I often fall victim to my own unhealthy patterns of thought, so I'm having a difficult time determining which voice is making the better argument. I'm crossing my fingers that a third offer will roll in in the next 2 weeks, but assuming that this doesn't happen and my current options remain static, then I can't help but feel I'll have major regrets and "what ifs" regardless of the decision I make.

 Thoughts? I've been leaning towards accepting Program B's offer, but every time the reality of moving to this school sets in, I'm filled with dread and the internal debate starts all over again.  Any advice or tough love would be much appreciated!

[A2018]

Flip a coin. When it's falling down you will find yourself wishing for a side. And that's the one you should go with. 

But if I was in your shoes, I'm going with A. 

Edited March 23, 2018 by A2018

[TheWalkingGrad]

Honestly, I'd try again next year. 

US$ 90,000 is a lot of debt to pay off, especially if you're taking private loans that probably won't wait for you to get a proper job before you have to start paying them off. And you have a clear lack of fit with option B.

If you have a well paying job now and live in a place you like, I see no problem in postponing the MPA another year, working on your application, and trying again next cycle.

Good luck!

[yeahitsp]

If the choice were mine I'd remove option B from consideration and just wait on my top 2 schools for as long as is reasonable. The grad school application process is not fun, and to have to go through the same process with no guarantee of an offer is going to be a bummer.

If you don't get an offer from your tops schools, option A sounds like an incredible second choice - one that you'd be happy with (debt aside). Try to look at the debt this way - you're paying for an overall experience. You'll get to live in Europe, build an international network, leverage your international experience in job interviews at home, etc. If you're enjoying yourself, the course content, the people/faculty you might be more inclined to get involved and have some more doors open that way. There seems likes more opportunity to get inspired here.

I understand the debt level would be significantly less to go with option B, but have you considered your mental health? Living an "unenjoyable" life for an additional 3 years...it takes a toll. Yes, you'll get the credential - but what about the network and other opportunities of engagement? Are you going to want to get out and explore and attend events/panels if your environment makes you want to stay in bed?  Where will the one year internship be located? If it gets you out of there then I understand why you might want to consider it, but to work and school in a place you are miserable at just doesn't make sense to me. I personally value my mental health more.

Location was a big factor in my decision. I'm from Vancouver, BC, but have moved to Victoria recently for a job. I've applied to schools in Vancouver (SFU) and Victoria (UVIC), and was accepted to both. Although UVIC is significantly cheaper, shorter in length, and has more co-op opportunities - the city or school doesn't have a lot going on in terms of events/networking opportunities. SFU is much more costly, but I'm very interested in community engagement and I know SFU has ample opportunity with various links and partnerships across Vancouver.

With either option, you'll come out with a degree. But just because you're qualified for a job doesn't mean you get the job. Your network/connections/experiences and how your market all that is what matters. So I guess I'd say go with the option you know you could make the most of. 

Good luck!

[Sprint14]

When you take out 90k in loans you do not pay back 90k in loans.

Doing some student loan calculator options; if you take out 90k in loans and have an usually good 5.7% interest rate, in 10 years you will have paid over 118k. The payment would be $968 every month for ten years. For a 15-year repayment plan you will pay a total of over 134k at $745 per month. Paying $629 per month you will pay 151k over 20 years. Private loans will likely have a higher interest rate. 

The undergrad I chose was an expensive private school in a desirable city - so I'm speaking of the after here. It's a bit ridiculous to do the "what if" game at this point, but seeing the money come out of my checking account every month and barely hit the principle is demoralizing. I did not fully rationalize how the great locale and shiny things were going to follow me for decades. Those four years I spent enjoying a nice city have meant that for the past ten years I've had to take less desirable apartments so I could put the difference towards loans. 

Europe is not such a glamorous place anyway when constantly worried about money and stressed about debt. 

[rising_star]

In your shoes, I'd reapply next year.

[megtree]

22 hours ago, yeahitsp said:

If the choice were mine I'd remove option B from consideration and just wait on my top 2 schools for as long as is reasonable. The grad school application process is not fun, and to have to go through the same process with no guarantee of an offer is going to be a bummer.

If you don't get an offer from your tops schools, option A sounds like an incredible second choice - one that you'd be happy with (debt aside). Try to look at the debt this way - you're paying for an overall experience. You'll get to live in Europe, build an international network, leverage your international experience in job interviews at home, etc. If you're enjoying yourself, the course content, the people/faculty you might be more inclined to get involved and have some more doors open that way. There seems likes more opportunity to get inspired here.

I understand the debt level would be significantly less to go with option B, but have you considered your mental health? Living an "unenjoyable" life for an additional 3 years...it takes a toll. Yes, you'll get the credential - but what about the network and other opportunities of engagement? Are you going to want to get out and explore and attend events/panels if your environment makes you want to stay in bed?  Where will the one year internship be located? If it gets you out of there then I understand why you might want to consider it, but to work and school in a place you are miserable at just doesn't make sense to me. I personally value my mental health more.

Location was a big factor in my decision. I'm from Vancouver, BC, but have moved to Victoria recently for a job. I've applied to schools in Vancouver (SFU) and Victoria (UVIC), and was accepted to both. Although UVIC is significantly cheaper, shorter in length, and has more co-op opportunities - the city or school doesn't have a lot going on in terms of events/networking opportunities. SFU is much more costly, but I'm very interested in community engagement and I know SFU has ample opportunity with various links and partnerships across Vancouver.

With either option, you'll come out with a degree. But just because you're qualified for a job doesn't mean you get the job. Your network/connections/experiences and how your market all that is what matters. So I guess I'd say go with the option you know you could make the most of. 

Good luck!

Thank you for your advice! Coincidentally, UVIC is my top choice.  UVic's program structure is really attractive to me and I love living on the island; some pals recently graduated from the program and they had great jobs waiting for them as a result of their co-op terms. One of my top considerations is the opportunity to obtain professional experience developing public policy, so UVIC's numerous co-op opportunities are my biggest pull. I didn't receive an offer from them yesterday (I saw that you were given an offer yesterday), so it's looking less and less likely that I'll be accepted. I was rejected from my other top pick last week.

 I think my mental health will suffer more under the weight of debt than under the weight of a temporarily terrible living situation (Winnipeg - ugh). I could live in Antarctica if they had a program that I was excited to attend, but unfortunately Option B's less than favourable location is paired with maligned program concentrations. I think I may have the opportunity to leave the province during my one year internship, but I'm waiting to hear back from the MPA co-op advisor about typical internship opportunities. If national/global opportunities exist, than Option B becomes somewhat more attractive, so I'll see what they have to say about that.

Ultimately, I'm no closer to making a decision and my deadlines are now days away. I'm planning to strip my emotions from my considerations to try to take a more rational policy approach to decision-making (hah!). I'm going to list my criteria, weight them, and evaluate each decision on a matrix before week's end. I don't know if this approach makes any sense, but I'm not sure what else to do at this stage. I don't feel good about either of my choices, but as you said, I really don't want to go through this application process again. Despite the writings on the wall, I'm still desperately hoping UVIC will save me from having to make this decision. Ugh.  

Anyway, thanks for your advice and congrats on SFU! =) 

[megtree]

20 hours ago, ohdeargodwhy said:

When you take out 90k in loans you do not pay back 90k in loans.

Doing some student loan calculator options; if you take out 90k in loans and have an usually good 5.7% interest rate, in 10 years you will have paid over 118k. The payment would be $968 every month for ten years. For a 15-year repayment plan you will pay a total of over 134k at $745 per month. Paying $629 per month you will pay 151k over 20 years. Private loans will likely have a higher interest rate. 

The undergrad I chose was an expensive private school in a desirable city - so I'm speaking of the after here. It's a bit ridiculous to do the "what if" game at this point, but seeing the money come out of my checking account every month and barely hit the principle is demoralizing. I did not fully rationalize how the great locale and shiny things were going to follow me for decades. Those four years I spent enjoying a nice city have meant that for the past ten years I've had to take less desirable apartments so I could put the difference towards loans. 

Europe is not such a glamorous place anyway when constantly worried about money and stressed about debt. 

You've described my reservations with Program A. I don't want to have any regrets and I'm afraid I'd regret the decision to take on a massive debtload. Best case scenario in terms of post-grad employment, I land a high paying job that allows me to pay off my loan within 10 years. Even in this best case scenario, I recognize that these massive monthly repayment cheques would prevent me from seriously saving for retirement until I'm in my forties. That's insane. 

With that said, I'll likely work for the government post-graduation, and my government does offer incentives to pay off their employee's government student loans. I could also land a one year internship at program A that would allow me to pay off my second year living expenses. In this best case scenario, my principle debt would hover around 55,000. That's a much more tolerable number for me, but it is also a best case scenario!

Thanks for sharing your experience. It'll definitely weigh into my considerations.

[yeahitsp]

28 minutes ago, megtree said:

Thank you for your advice! Coincidentally, UVIC is my top choice.  UVic's program structure is really attractive to me and I love living on the island; some pals recently graduated from the program and they had great jobs waiting for them as a result of their co-op terms. One of my top considerations is the opportunity to obtain professional experience developing public policy, so UVIC's numerous co-op opportunities are my biggest pull. I didn't receive an offer from them yesterday (I saw that you were given an offer yesterday), so it's looking less and less likely that I'll be accepted. I was rejected from my other top pick last week.

 I think my mental health will suffer more under the weight of debt than under the weight of a temporarily terrible living situation (Winnipeg - ugh). I could live in Antarctica if they had a program that I was excited to attend, but unfortunately Option B's less than favourable location is paired with maligned program concentrations. I think I may have the opportunity to leave the province during my one year internship, but I'm waiting to hear back from the MPA co-op advisor about typical internship opportunities. If national/global opportunities exist, than Option B becomes somewhat more attractive, so I'll see what they have to say about that.

Ultimately, I'm no closer to making a decision and my deadlines are now days away. I'm planning to strip my emotions from my considerations to try to take a more rational policy approach to decision-making (hah!). I'm going to list my criteria, weight them, and evaluate each decision on a matrix before week's end. I don't know if this approach makes any sense, but I'm not sure what else to do at this stage. I don't feel good about either of my choices, but as you said, I really don't want to go through this application process again. Despite the writings on the wall, I'm still desperately hoping UVIC will save me from having to make this decision. Ugh.  

Anyway, thanks for your advice and congrats on SFU! =) 

There's still some hope for UVIC! There'll likely be another round of offers after the 10 days they've given this wave to respond. Sucks that timing doesn't seem to be on your side here. Is it the U of Manitoba you applied to? That was one of the schools I applied to as well, haven't received an offer/rejection from them yet. I'd like to focus on indigenous policy issues and the school/location seemed like a good fit. Depending on how the co-op program is structured, you may be able to escape the city during the winter! I've done quite a few co-ops during undergrad, and I worked with UBC's Arts co-op office for a bit too. Most Canadian co-op programs have national opportunities (always a huge chunk in Ottawa for policy students) and they usually allow the opportunity to complete a self-directed search, or find something through FSWEP. Sending positive vibes!!

 

[megtree]

13 minutes ago, yeahitsp said:

There's still some hope for UVIC! There'll likely be another round of offers after the 10 days they've given this wave to respond. Sucks that timing doesn't seem to be on your side here. Is it the U of Manitoba you applied to? That was one of the schools I applied to as well, haven't received an offer/rejection from them yet. I'd like to focus on indigenous policy issues and the school/location seemed like a good fit. Depending on how the co-op program is structured, you may be able to escape the city during the winter! I've done quite a few co-ops during undergrad, and I worked with UBC's Arts co-op office for a bit too. Most Canadian co-op programs have national opportunities (always a huge chunk in Ottawa for policy students) and they usually allow the opportunity to complete a self-directed search, or find something through FSWEP. Sending positive vibes!!

 

As you guessed, U of Manitoba is option B. I think you're right; If I were primarily interested in indigenous policy issues or defence policy issues, then the University of Manitoba would be a much better fit for me. I was hoping to have a concentration in economics/tax policies, however, and Manitoba's grad program doesn't really offer their MPA students economic electives unless they already have a bunch of undergrad pre-requisites. I have completed a couple of the economic pre-requisites during undergrad studies, but I would seemingly have to apply for transfer credits to be exempted from these pre-requisites  (during my undergrad, pre-requisites were semi-optional, as I could email the course's department chair and petition for direct registration. I was never denied). This doesn't seem to be in option at U of Man. So, by the time my requested transfer credits are approved, I'd be knee deep in the MPA and juggling multiple 2nd yr. economics/math courses. I don't know if that makes any sense. I just don't want to delay graduation to complete multiple non-credited undergrad pre-requisites which are seemingly required to tailor the program towards my interests. Maybe I could find another work around to this issue? I'm not sure.

I recognize my UVIC hopes aren't completely dashed, but it's not looking like I'll know either way until after I've committed to a program. The University of Manitoba has been really attentive and accommodating to my requests/inquiries, so I really don't want to accept their offer and then have to decline them if UVIC gives me an offer, you know? I was in their first round of offers, so I've already put off responding to them for an unreasonably long time. I think they must  prioritize professional experience when screening applications, because my BA is irrelevant for a MPA and my GPA is weak/borderline for grad school. However, I have a decent amount of experience managing non-profits and working in government, so I think that has been my saving grace for both Option A and U of Man.

May I ask about your general academic background/GPA/professional experience? I'm curious how UVIC has prioritized applicants and your background might help to give me a better idea. I appreciate your advice btw; it's nice being able to evaluate my options with someone outside my own head

[yeahitsp]

18 minutes ago, megtree said:

As you guessed, U of Manitoba is option B. I think you're right; If I were primarily interested in indigenous policy issues or defence policy issues, then the University of Manitoba would be a much better fit for me. I was hoping to have a concentration in economics/tax policies, however, and Manitoba's grad program doesn't really offer their MPA students economic electives unless they already have a bunch of undergrad pre-requisites. I have completed a couple of the economic pre-requisites during undergrad studies, but I would seemingly have to apply for transfer credits to be exempted from these pre-requisites  (during my undergrad, pre-requisites were semi-optional, as I could email the course's department chair and petition for direct registration. I was never denied). This doesn't seem to be in option at U of Man. So, by the time my requested transfer credits are approved, I'd be knee deep in the MPA and juggling multiple 2nd yr. economics/math courses. I don't know if that makes any sense. I just don't want to delay graduation to complete multiple non-credited undergrad pre-requisites which are seemingly required to tailor the program towards my interests. Maybe I could find another work around to this issue? I'm not sure.

I recognize my UVIC hopes aren't completely dashed, but it's not looking like I'll know either way until after I've committed to a program. The University of Manitoba has been really attentive and accommodating to my requests/inquiries, so I really don't want to accept their offer and then have to decline them if UVIC gives me an offer, you know? I was in their first round of offers, so I've already put off responding to them for an unreasonably long time. I think they must  prioritize professional experience when screening applications, because my BA is irrelevant for a MPA and my GPA is weak/borderline for grad school. However, I have a decent amount of experience managing non-profits and working in government, so I think that has been my saving grace for both Option A and U of Man.

May I ask about your general academic background/GPA/professional experience? I'm curious how UVIC has prioritized applicants and your background might help to give me a better idea. I appreciate your advice btw; it's nice being able to evaluate my options with someone outside my own head

Nice to hear that U of Manitoba is so accommodating! Maybe once you're in you can work more closely with advisors to find a reasonable way to tailor the program to your interests. I understand the hesitation in potentially declining them if you get offered a spot at UVIC, but I'm sure they've experienced that before. Not like they're going to take it personal. They'll definitely have someone on their waitlist to make an offer to. Who knows, you could potentially  be making someone's day!

It's interesting you think they prioritize professional experience because I was thinking the opposite! The fact that they wanted a writing sample, no resume, and only academic references made me think they'd focus more on academics/GPA.

My background: BA in Political Science/History (2017) from UBC. GPA was 80% (think it translates to a 3.7/4.33). Also had 16 months of co-op experience in research/policy: 3 work terms with 2 federal departments and 1 with a think-tank. Had one academic reference, 2 from employers from research/policy roles, and one from the co-op program I was enrolled in. I also received some good feedback on my letter of intent. Hope that helps!

[megtree]

1 hour ago, yeahitsp said:

Nice to hear that U of Manitoba is so accommodating! Maybe once you're in you can work more closely with advisors to find a reasonable way to tailor the program to your interests. I understand the hesitation in potentially declining them if you get offered a spot at UVIC, but I'm sure they've experienced that before. Not like they're going to take it personal. They'll definitely have someone on their waitlist to make an offer to. Who knows, you could potentially  be making someone's day!

It's interesting you think they prioritize professional experience because I was thinking the opposite! The fact that they wanted a writing sample, no resume, and only academic references made me think they'd focus more on academics/GPA.

My background: BA in Political Science/History (2017) from UBC. GPA was 80% (think it translates to a 3.7/4.33). Also had 16 months of co-op experience in research/policy: 3 work terms with 2 federal departments and 1 with a think-tank. Had one academic reference, 2 from employers from research/policy roles, and one from the co-op program I was enrolled in. I also received some good feedback on my letter of intent. Hope that helps!

Interesting. I remember reading a statement on their website that suggested applicants with relevant professional experience could expect to be competitive with an essentially non-competitive GPA, so that lead me to assume that they really valued professional experience. However, I double checked my U of Man application and you're right; I didn't upload my resume... weird. Anyway, your academic background and GPA are much stronger than mine, so their selection criteria is evidently a complete mystery to me. 

Also, thanks for providing your background! It was helpful because it sounds like you're a very strong candidate both academically and in terms of your professional experience. There are so many degrees of separation between us that I think it would be a fool's endeavor to continue holding my breath for UVic. The anxiety over whether I'd hear from them in time was causing me to lose a lot of sleep, so I think I'll rest easy tonight now that I've accepted that it ultimately doesn't matter when they respond to my application. I think I've somewhat been avoiding making a decision because I've been holding out hope that I'd hear from UVIC, so untangling my hopes from the tangible options that are actually available makes this decision feel much less complicated.  Anyway, thanks again for your advice =) It was much appreciated!

Edited April 4, 2018 by megtree

[yeahitsp]

21 hours ago, megtree said:

Interesting. I remember reading a statement on their website that suggested applicants with relevant professional experience could expect to be competitive with an essentially non-competitive GPA, so that lead me to assume that they really valued professional experience. However, I double checked my U of Man application and you're right; I didn't upload my resume... weird. Anyway, your academic background and GPA are much stronger than mine, so their selection criteria is evidently a complete mystery to me. 

Also, thanks for providing your background! It was helpful because it sounds like you're a very strong candidate both academically and in terms of your professional experience. There are so many degrees of separation between us that I think it would be a fool's endeavor to continue holding my breath for UVic. The anxiety over whether I'd hear from them in time was causing me to lose a lot of sleep, so I think I'll rest easy tonight now that I've accepted that it ultimately doesn't matter when they respond to my application. I think I've somewhat been avoiding making a decision because I've been holding out hope that I'd hear from UVIC, so untangling my hopes from the tangible options that are actually available makes this decision feel much less complicated.  Anyway, thanks again for your advice =) It was much appreciated!

Wish we could know how they come to their decisions, but oh well! I'm glad our conversation helped you get closer to making yours. P.S - just got my rejection from U of Manitoba last night!