PhD transfer to Political Science department

[stuffbroker]

Hello All,

Having received a Candidate in Philosophy (C.Phil) degree in political science at a

University of California campus, I cannot find a program that will accept me and

allow full transfer of units. (most allow about 9 units or so) Meaning, I'm forced to

take years of coursework over again, not to mention comprehensive exams, etc. if

I am accepted.

I simply wish to complete my dissertation. A number of years have passed due to

an ongoing disability which hampered the pace of my work. My previous

department will not allow me back in without "remedial" work, essentially courses

and new comprehensives.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Thanks for any input.

[Penelope Higgins]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're going to have trouble finding a department that will let you do this. Departments require everyone to take comps in their institution to make sure that they have an opportunity to evaluate your breadth of knowledge using their own criteria and approach to the discipline. The fact that time has elapsed since you passed your comps will be a red flag, since new literature that has appeared since you took your exams has changed the field. My department (which is far from alone in this) requires anyone who takes more than a certain number of years between comps and dissertation defense to re-take comps to qualify for the defense.

Hello All,

Having received a Candidate in Philosophy (C.Phil) degree in political science at a

University of California campus, I cannot find a program that will accept me and

allow full transfer of units. (most allow about 9 units or so) Meaning, I'm forced to

take years of coursework over again, not to mention comprehensive exams, etc. if

I am accepted.

I simply wish to complete my dissertation. A number of years have passed due to

an ongoing disability which hampered the pace of my work. My previous

department will not allow me back in without "remedial" work, essentially courses

and new comprehensives.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Thanks for any input.

[stuffbroker]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're going to have trouble finding a department that will let you do this. Departments require everyone to take comps in their institution to make sure that they have an opportunity to evaluate your breadth of knowledge using their own criteria and approach to the discipline. The fact that time has elapsed since you passed your comps will be a red flag, since new literature that has appeared since you took your exams has changed the field. My department (which is far from alone in this) requires anyone who takes more than a certain number of years between comps and dissertation defense to re-take comps to qualify for the defense.

Thanks Penelope for the feedback. It is consistent with what I've heard. My hope was that the CPhil degree would separate me out from simple ABD standing. In other word, for example, if one possesses

an MA and wishes to pursue a PhD, a department would not technically be able to require retaking MA requirements as a condition of acceptance. The issue in my mind is whether a CPhil degree has any

standing and, if not, what is its purpose?

[PeaceDoc]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're going to have trouble finding a department that will let you do this. Departments require everyone to take comps in their institution to make sure that they have an opportunity to evaluate your breadth of knowledge using their own criteria and approach to the discipline. The fact that time has elapsed since you passed your comps will be a red flag, since new literature that has appeared since you took your exams has changed the field. My department (which is far from alone in this) requires anyone who takes more than a certain number of years between comps and dissertation defense to re-take comps to qualify for the defense.

In my own limited experience, unfortunately for you, I tend to agree with this. Some departments explicitly state in their FAQ pages how many hours they will allow to transfer, etc., but I've never seen one which allowed for more than perhaps a single years worth of credits. My own dept has turned away student MA credits when admitting into the PhD program. If you find a dept, let us know. I would be interested.

[stuffbroker]

In my own limited experience, unfortunately for you, I tend to agree with this. Some departments explicitly state in their FAQ pages how many hours they will allow to transfer, etc., but I've never seen one which allowed for more than perhaps a single years worth of credits. My own dept has turned away student MA credits when admitting into the PhD program. If you find a dept, let us know. I would be interested.

Thanks for your reply. To put this in perspective for others, an individual can spend three to five years (or more) of time, effort, and money...... achieve ABD status, be hit with a disability, and NOT be allowed to continue to

finish up their thesis, AND be unable to transfer to another institution without essentially beginning the process anew. Nine units of credit does not reflect the prior effort in most cases. In my mind, departments should be

allowed to make a more subjective determination, while recognizing that ABD status should confer some recognition that similar requirements have already been met. (at least more than a semester's worth of work)

In addition, the fact that three faculty members would have to sign off on a dissertation should imply that the students work reflects the current state of the literature. Thanks again.

[dearabby207]

Hi there,

Im very sorry to hear about your situation. I would like to direct you to section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act, which lays out which accommodations schools and other federally-funded units need to provide for those of us afflicted with disabilities. I would strongly recommend contacting an official at your university who deals with disability issues to see if your department requiring you to retake classes/comp. exams because of medical issues violates your right to a disability-induced accommodation.

Best of luck,

[stuffbroker]

Just to add................ At this point I would consider an overseas program.

(If any department chair comes across this post who might be sympathetic to

my plight, I'd be happy to detail the specifics of my situation)

[stuffbroker]

Hi there,

Im very sorry to hear about your situation. I would like to direct you to section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act, which lays out which accommodations schools and other federally-funded units need to provide for those of us afflicted with disabilities. I would strongly recommend contacting an official at your university who deals with disability issues to see if your department requiring you to retake classes/comp. exams because of medical issues violates your right to a disability-induced accommodation.

Best of luck,

Dearabby207, thanks for that. One of my options is to pursue this through the ADA, but I am trying to resolve this out of court. The case is

relatively complex, and ADA definitely is an appropriate course. However, I am hoping that a department exists that can apply some equity

to these circumstances and not simply rely on institutional guidelines that do not adapt to a specific case.

[rising_star]

I would look into a UK or UK-style program where all you do at the PhD level is write a dissertation.

[Wesson]

I've looked in to a similar matter at some U.S. departments, and the story you've heard above is consistent with what I've learned. Most universities have university (i.e., not department-level) requirements regarding how many hours of coursework a student must take at that university to receive a Ph.D. from that university. The logic is that you wouldn't want to call the person a Ph.D. from X University if that person took no courses there.

How much remedial work does your original institution want you to take? If no bridges have been burned, it seems like returning there might be your best option, at least in terms of finishing sooner rather than later.

[stuffbroker]

I've looked in to a similar matter at some U.S. departments, and the story you've heard above is consistent with what I've learned. Most universities have university (i.e., not department-level) requirements regarding how many hours of coursework a student must take at that university to receive a Ph.D. from that university. The logic is that you wouldn't want to call the person a Ph.D. from X University if that person took no courses there.

How much remedial work does your original institution want you to take? If no bridges have been burned, it seems like returning there might be your best option, at least in terms of finishing sooner rather than later.

Rising Star and Wesson Thanks much for your feedback. As for my University..... "its complicated". Suffice to say, best for me to seek new horizons.

Good news, (as Rising Star suggests) is that a number of UK programs offer "Research PhD's" which do not involve coursework nor comprehensives (as

opposed to "Taught" degrees. Essentially allowing one to come in with ABD status and simply work on their thesis until completion. Some of the programs

appear reasonable in terms of international tuition costs. In fact, a number of departments offer a DL or Distance Learning PhD which does not require attendance,

coursework or examinations other than a defense of thesis, (for example). These degrees are conducted online in collaboration with a supervising chair and/or

committee. My understanding is that some universities restrict this approach to earlier Masters graduates from within their school, along with variations along

the same lines. But it appears there are a sufficient number of programs where someone in my circumstances can land on their feet without going through a

groundhog day scenario.

Edited March 13, 2010 by stuffbroker

[Ziz]

The PhD programs I as accepted to in the UK required a masters degree in order to get straight to research. If you didn't have a masters degree you took an extra year at the beginning. The straight to research version takes 3 years and I'm sure you could argue that your ABD status is equivalent to a UK taught masters. In all likelihood it's superior to a UK masters so you should have no problem.

[stuffbroker]

The PhD programs I as accepted to in the UK required a masters degree in order to get straight to research. If you didn't have a masters degree you took an extra year at the beginning. The straight to research version takes 3 years and I'm sure you could argue that your ABD status is equivalent to a UK taught masters. In all likelihood it's superior to a UK masters so you should have no problem.

Thanks Ziz. I'm hoping that's the case. Curious which program you attended, but understand if you choose not to share that. I'm still perplexed as to why one cannot move into another program here

in the States at the ABD level. Understand one needs to be current with the literature, but that can (and should) be demonstrated through completion of a thesis. Normative time is a very fuzzy standard.

I could make a stronger, more detailed argument for "lateral" moves, but I think the best one can hope for is to come across solid advice (as I've received through this discussion group) and take individual

steps to overcome these type of institutional barriers. I continue to hope some department chair or dean will take it upon themselves to present the problem to an appropriate channel. My guess is that

hundreds of graduate students are caught in this dilemma and are in need of guidance. I would think that some policy review and recommendations could not only ease a lot of frustration, but result in

a more equitable national system. I pass the baton to anyone capable of running with this........... and thanks for all who have shown interest, taken the time to comment and/or advise. Good studies to all.

Edited March 16, 2010 by stuffbroker

[Penelope Higgins]

Just to point out that the couple of sentences below are not quite right: the thesis can demonstrate that you have command of a small piece of the political science literature. But the broader literature that you study for comps - and in which you will be teaching and mentoring students - is not touched in the thesis because the focus of that process is so narrow. The thesis and comps are two separate bars to cross, and they evaluate distinct kinds of knowledge.

I'm still perplexed as to why one cannot move into another program here

in the States at the ABD level. Understand one needs to be current with the literature, but that can (and should) be demonstrated through completion of a thesis.

[stuffbroker]

Just to point out that the couple of sentences below are not quite right: the thesis can demonstrate that you have command of a small piece of the political science literature. But the broader literature that you study for comps - and in which you will be teaching and mentoring students - is not touched in the thesis because the focus of that process is so narrow. The thesis and comps are two separate bars to cross, and they evaluate distinct kinds of knowledge.

Penelope......... I agree with your point. The key question is the lag time between the completion of comps and the thesis, along with the best procedure to establish one is up to date on the most recent studies in the more

general sense, as you point out. This is likely a case by case issue. My general argument is that there should be a more common sense accommodation that recognizes the previous work that led to ABD standing, while simultaneously

recognizing the need for the student to hold a current, general command of the field. ....... this in place of putting the student back at the starting gate. But you're right to point out the limits of the thesis in relation to the larger field

and preparation for teaching and mentoring. Thanks for catching that.