How are philosophy applicants faring, so far?

[Tsuroyu]

I ask mostly to relieve my own anxiety, if only a little bit, but also out of genuine curiosity. It seems like a terribly ugly and competitive year, although I'm not sure--I have a hard time trying to figure out what the situation is really like out there, although it's common knowledge the phil is one of the most competitive disciplines... So how are people doing so far?

Anyway, for myself: I'm in a philosophy MA program at a school the Leiter report mentions as an excellent place to earn a master's, and I got my BA in philosophy and religion at the same school. Undergrad GPA 3.74, Grad GPA 3.97, GRE 1480 (640 V/ 780 Q/ 5.5 AW). My interests are in continental (phenomenology), epistemology, and phil of religion. I've been told I'd make a very strong candidate, although from where I'm standing right now it doesn't look like that was really the case. I had glowing letters of rec, so I guess my writing sample was underwhelming or my SOP was silly, but I'm not sure anymore.

I applied to 13, with 7 rejections so far and no accepts, and considering that some of the rejections were from schools I was very confident I'd get into, my prospects aren't lookin so good for the last few. In rough order of preference to get in:

Notre Dame

Yale - rejected

U of Chicago - rejected

Fordham - rejected

Purdue - rejected

Boston U

St. Louis U

Villanova - rejected

Vanderbilt

Marquette

Emory - rejected

WashU - rejected

U of Kentucky

How is everyone else doin so far? Any thoughts and what did me in? It would have to be the writing, wouldn't it? Or GRE not high enough? A colleague of mine, also defending his MA thesis this semester, has already gotten acceptance letters from 4 schools, 3 on the Leiter report, one is top-20. And my school has a pretty good placement history. Man, wish I knew what to work on, if I were to try again.

[tarski]

My results are in my signature. Cognitive Science BA, 3.8, 1420. There aren't many philosophers around here, though. You're better off looking in the who_got_in philosophy thread (a livejournal community) or in the philprospectives community on livejournal. philprospectives actually has a thread that's all about this- undergrad background, where accepted & rejected & etc.

You still have a lot of schools to hear from! But if the worst happens and you need to try again- well, it depends. You could try asking some programs that rejected you for areas to work on (but wait until they're a bit less busy). How much time did you spend on your sample? That's what I've been told is the most important part.

[shakespearebro]

I got an email from Notre Dame in response to an email inquiry -- they've already contacted all acceptances and waitlists, so if you haven't heard from them by now, they're probably a rejection also. Sorry.

[monkeefugg]

It is very common for applicants to get shut out the first year and have to retry the next

Often, applicants still working on their Master's will have to reapply the next year, and simply having a completed Masters in addition to any improvements you make on your file during your "year off" will increase your chances

I got shut out of 11 (continental) school last year, and this year I reapplied to only 1 (it's NSSR, so that's a BIG difference in terms of acceptance rates from other schools, that take applicants straight from BA and only accept those whom they can fully fund)

Also, I'm a bit surprised that you felt very confident that you'd get accepted into those schools you've listed.

That's a rookie sentiment

But if you do get shut out, in addition to all other improvement and progress you make in the upcoming year, just know that having a completed masters is going to help.

[Tsuroyu]

Well, I didn't mean I was confident about all of them. I was pretty confident I would NOT be accepted to Yale, Notre Dame, or UChicago, for example, but I figured I had a pretty damn good chance at Loyola, Emory, and Villanova, none of which are mentioned on the Leiter report at all (although I guess a mention on SPEP acts as something of a substitute, for the continental schools).

But you're right, it was a rookie sentiment, big time. If I decide to reapply (and if I can afford to), the experience will definitely have helped in my preparation next go 'round. And your belief that having a master's completed is something of a condolence, so thanks for that! Guess it might just be time to find a hold-me-over job and redo that SOP and writing sample (sad/tired face goes here).

[monkeefugg]

Yeah, you were wrong big-time about WashU, Emory, and Villanova-- esp Emory!!!

Emory is one of the top Continental schools, and a reach, I think.

They get around 300 applications for around 4 or 5 spots, depending upon funding that year

Leiter is a dumb bastard, and Phil Gourmet is relatively useless for Continental

Emory is one of the heavy-hitters

Also, my friend got rejected from WashU, and his file was really great (he ultimately got 5 years full funding at another school)

(PS- he, like me, graduated from MA a year ago)

Don't be discouraged

it is very very common to go through a couple (even a few) rounds of applications before you get a doable acceptance

In fact, it's pretty much standard procedure

These characters who get multiple accepts their first go are pod-people, I swear

Happy Landings!

[tarski]

These characters who get multiple accepts their first go are pod-people, I swear

Interesting .

Guess it might just be time to find a hold-me-over job and redo that SOP and writing sample (sad/tired face goes here).

You don't necessarily have to redo it, but show it to many (3+) profs to get advice on refining it.

[Tsuroyu]

You don't necessarily have to redo it, but show it to many (3+) profs to get advice on refining it.

Ya know, one of my biggest frustrations during the entire application procedure, long before I finally sent the damn things out, was getting enough feedback on my writing. I go to a large public university in California, and while my department here has an excellent reputation, the financial situation in this state is awful, and the school has very visibly suffered from it. So I know that my professors are overworked, underpaid, and just generally extremely busy these days. But nonetheless, I still feel a little cheated, in that I got very little help on my SOP, and the help on my writing sample was not exactly what I needed, I think.

But maybe this time around I can get several more professors to work with me on it, closely. And the writing sample, too, for that matter. I don't know... I will have to try the suggestion of contacting the departments that rejected me, to see if I can squeeze out any info at all. Even if it's just, "oh yeah, your SOP sucked," at least I'll know specifically which piece to work on. Right now, I feel totally in the dark, like my rejection could have been a result of any element of my app. It's a miserable feeling.

[tarski]

Ya know, one of my biggest frustrations during the entire application procedure, long before I finally sent the damn things out, was getting enough feedback on my writing... the help on my writing sample was not exactly what I needed, I think.

Anything specific on how the feedback you got wasn't what you needed? As in, not enough, or something else? Just curious if I can offer any advice.

[Tsuroyu]

This is a little tough to articulate. He did not read the writing sample in full, but rather requested that I point him toward specific sections that I want him to review for me. Well, ok, but at some point I really do need somebody to read over the whole thing and either give it a thumbs up or provide advice on what needs to change. His advice was always to make very specific changes, mostly about the substantive content. While I do appreciate trying to get the paper just right, philosophically, I also want to polish it for adcomms who don't necessarily care if I have a totally correct understanding of the entire discourse around topic X. In fact, I imagine they'd prefer that I don't, so that they can influence my development in that regard. Does that make sense? I have the impression that schools are looking for a good project, written well, that shows critical thinking and writing ability, and I feel like these weren't really part of the advice I was getting. And if, after months of revision, something is still fundamentally wrong with my paper (and judging by the repeated revisions that he requested, time after time after time after time), it might be helpful to say something broad about the thesis as a whole, and suggest some approaches for substantial reworking of the thing.

I would often revise some small section of the paper, at his request, and then go back myself and try to make the necessary revisions throughout the rest of the paper that would result from the changes made. But upon resubmitting it for advice, again, he would not read enough to see how the paper had changed as a whole, but only that small section, which he would send me back to revise again. And after about an hour of talking about this one small section, we would not have enough time to discuss my SOP at all, so that got edited very scarcely, and generally by only myself.

Whew, sorry, that got a little incoherent. I'm trying to be articulate while becoming more frustrated by rejections as time goes by, so I'm sorry if my tone is whiny. Thanks for your thoughts, though!

[tarski]

Hmm, various things to say. Take it all with a grain of salt; what do I know.

He did not read the writing sample in full, but rather requested that I point him toward specific sections that I want him to review for me.

This is definitely bad- you really want *someone* to read it all, even if just to check it for clarity. Does your university have a writing tutorial center? I used mine. They give advice on clarity, nitpick the whole thing in great detail. I've never done it before (didn't need to), but it was useful for the writing sample, which is very important.

You really do need people to be reading the whole thing... maybe if you give them a long time to do it & get back? (like a month).

While I do appreciate trying to get the paper just right, philosophically, I also want to polish it for adcomms who don't necessarily care if I have a totally correct understanding of the entire discourse around topic X. In fact, I imagine they'd prefer that I don't, so that they can influence my development in that regard. Does that make sense?

I don't think I agree with this. It depends on what substantive stuff he was changing, I guess: if your interpretation of an issue was different from his, that's fine, as long as you have sufficient reason to take your stance. But if his arguments are better than yours, that's that. You don't want to submit a sample that contains weak arguments.

And if, after months of revision, something is still fundamentally wrong with my paper (and judging by the repeated revisions that he requested, time after time after time after time), it might be helpful to say something broad about the thesis as a whole, and suggest some approaches for substantial reworking of the thing.

It sounds like you're just working with one prof- more is always better. What I did was make one read it and give comments, work it over, then give it to a different prof, etc. This way you don't annoy one prof too much.

Whew, sorry, that got a little incoherent. I'm trying to be articulate while becoming more frustrated by rejections as time goes by, so I'm sorry if my tone is whiny. Thanks for your thoughts, though!

No worries . I hope my thoughts help, somewhat. And people often have success in their second tries (if you follow the who_got_in, there's a lot of stories of that this year).

[monkeefugg]

Why the hell did my postings on this topic get rated down?

I was only trying to help

Jesus

[Tsuroyu]

Why the hell did my postings on this topic get rated down?

I was only trying to help

Jesus

I rated you up, Monkee, and I appreciate your input!

[monkeefugg]

Honestly though, don't get discouraged

Philosophy is one of the most competitive fields, and it's STUPER hard to get in a PhD program

My friend who has high GRE scores, a 4.0, great letters of rec, grad conference experience, Grad research assistantships, etc etc got like a million rejections, 2 waitlists, and only 1 offer

I myself got shut out of 11 schools last year

It's almost unfathomable!

But I still think that if you persist, you will eventually succeed

As for your writing sample-- I was told by a prof in the department to which I am applying this year that they do not look at the WS so much in terms of content, but in terms of *methodology* to see whether you possess the SKILLS necessary to do good philosophical work at the doctoral level

That being said, it seems a bit contradictory to attempt to separate the two, but I think the key is to remember that (historically speaking) Philosophy was characterized not entirely by a common set of problems, but by a methodology of inquiry. You can be Leibniz and write about something stupid and ridiculous like MONADS, but the content of your paper will not matter so much if your ARGUMENTATION is rigorous and sophisticated--in a word "philosophical"

Does that make sense?

So while it definitely would be ideal to present a WS of which you feel 100% confident, I wouldn't necessarily kill myself over the content, but rather make sure that the more *formal* aspects of the paper are impressive

Good Luck

[thelonious23]

Hi! Just to add a voice to the crowd...I've faired pretty well so far, at least better than I would have thought, given the stiff competition this year. Accepted to Loyola, Purdue's Philosophy and Lit, Tufts, Colorado State, and Arizona State. A couple are still out, but I'm pretty well sure I'll be at Tufts in the fall. Only they and CSU have offered funding so far (and the funding package is in fact better as CSU, but still...). Loyola and Arizona have said nothing about funding at all, and Purdue has said funding is unlikely.

Rejections: Texas A&M; Emory; University of Oregon; University of Colorado; WashU.

I'm a graduate of a small, fairly unknown philosophy department, and my GRE wasn't so amazing (V670, Q540), but I think I had a few things in my favor. I have a completed Masters (an MFA, but a three-year program with a TAship) and an additional year of teaching at my university. My letters of recommendation were quite strong, and I submitted four of them. Also, I have reason to think that my writing sample was strong, though not flawless. I submitted two short papers as the sample, one a more loose, creative piece, and the other a short but tightly argued epistemology paper. I really think that worked in my favor. I do have a few honors and awards to my name, but little in the way of conferences and nothing published.

At any rate, I can see that this has been a rough year. I have friends who have been rejected across the board, some of them for the second year out. Myself, I think the writing sample is worth more than the GRE, but probably every application is weighed differently.

Good luck to everyone, and calmness to those still waiting!

[tarski]

Congratulations on your acceptances, Thelonius!

I'm curious about your interests and your sample- how did the MFA lead you to philoosphy, and what was the more loose/creative piece about?

[verda]

Am in a similar situation. Applied to 12 schools, 6 rejections so far, and no acceptances or waitlists from the others.

European background, Three 4.0 GPA BA's from a mid-range uni, currently in a MA in a different discipline at a Times top 30 uni, GRE 1300+, and a Fulbright for next year.

Put my hopes out on MA's now, and done some more applications to MA-programs.

But in all it has been a pretty devastating experience. It has left me feeling repulsion at the sight of application-forms, and close to being depressed.

[thelonious23]

On 3/15/2010 at 10:22 PM, tarski said:

Congratulations on your acceptances, Thelonius!

I'm curious about your interests and your sample- how did the MFA lead you to philoosphy, and what was the more loose/creative piece about?

Thanks! To answer your question, I was a double major as an undergraduate--philosophy and English with a creative writing emphasis. Our school has a graduate creative writing program (I'm a poet), so I worked on my MFA while minoring in philosophy and TAing in the philosophy department (I'm a poet who would rather teach philosophy). So I guess my interests in philosophy and poetry have always overlapped--I wrote my master's comps on Heidegger and Sappho.

The writing sample was taken from two philosophy classes, the previously mentioned Epistemology, and Philosophy of Sex and Love, the final paper of was on Socrates, desire, and universal love. The argument was more "open" than I would have been comfortable with on its own. So, polished up a little, this accounted for about fourteen pages of the sample. But I should note that the smaller analytic paper was what one school commented on specifically... and if I had really wanted to be in an analyic program, probably the "loose" paper shouldn't have been included at all.

I think I've learned some things from this process. I do think the "voice" of the application is important. I think my lowish (1210) GRE probably precluded me from some more high-end programs (Rice, WashU, Emory), and if I were to do this again, I would want to retake it (and study a bit more this time). I think a student's "potential" is a big part of MA applications, but for PhD's look for more ability to commit...and yes, are pretty damn competative.

At any rate, just some thoughts and impressions! Luck to all....

[summer_reader]

Has anyone heard from Mcmaster or Laurier? They are the last two outstanding. I finally broke down and emailed the department secretaries yesterday and today, would you believe it, my home email is down (I'm at work). Called the ISP - no idea when it will be working.

I'd really like to just get this over with!

[rachellou]

Exciting! I'll be at Tufts this fall, see you there!

[Mariecat]

Has anyone heard from Michigan State? I'm also waiting to hear from the University of Oregon. Thanks! Good luck, everyone!

I've gotten rejections from:

The University of Alberta

Penn State

University of Memphis

WashU