SAIS now (for free) or SIPA in two years?

[007]

Hey people,

I am facing a difficult decision: I have been admitted to SAIS (Bologna-DC) and will be able to go there for free (I will even get paid some money per month). However, I have always been fond of the idea of going to SIPA (love NY, love Columbia) but I would need some work experience and would have to apply there in something like two years time.

What would you do? Should I forfeit my scholarship for SAIS and apply to SIPA in two years after getting some professional experience? Or should I take the money and the opportunities given by SAIS? This also given the fact that my chances to obtain another schlarship in two years might not be same. My ultimate goal is to work in the private sector, most likely in the financial sector.

I would be glad for any help on this.

Regards,

007

[IR Dude]

Hey people,

I am facing a difficult decision: I have been admitted to SAIS (Bologna-DC) and will be able to go there for free (I will even get paid some money per month). However, I have always been fond of the idea of going to SIPA (love NY, love Columbia) but I would need some work experience and would have to apply there in something like two years time.

What would you do? Should I forfeit my scholarship for SAIS and apply to SIPA in two years after getting some professional experience? Or should I take the money and the opportunities given by SAIS? This also given the fact that my chances to obtain another schlarship in two years might not be same. My ultimate goal is to work in the private sector, most likely in the financial sector.

I would be glad for any help on this.

Regards,

007

You're joking, right?

I mean unless you're President, some other major political figure, the big cheese for a government program, CEO of a large financial firm, Chief Economist for some place that has Chief Economists, a high ranking military commander, Head Researcher for a big-name Think Tank, Director of an NGO, in bed with the Energy buffs, or some sort of major religious figure, why in God's name would you consider turning down a free $120,000+ degree from a school best suited for what you ultimately want to do with your future career? I'm curious to know what job you'd be doing that would give you working experience prior to re-applying to SIPA.

I'm facing the difficult decision of whether or not to throw my laptop out the window of my 4th story apartment if/when I get negative results from SAIS.

Tell ya what, lets trade decisions.

Edited March 14, 2010 by IR Dude

[carpecc]

Uh, are you crazy? If it's free, go to SAIS now. If afterwards you still want to go to SIPA, then go to SIPA after SAIS and get another MA.

I seriously question the validity of this post.

[ksaroya]

Did you defer acceptance? I was under the impression that decisions had not gone out yet.

[bestfootforward]

just curious since your post says you are from/in germany, you will presumably be going back there, and i might want eventually want to end up there: are either jhu or columbia well known in germany? i used to work for an igo (similar to GTZ but not that one specifically) and my impression was from talking to people was that they didn't really (it was sort of like harvard, mit, and berkeley that were known there).

--will the name open so many doors for you that the 60k is worth the long term investment?

--what is your focus? is either school better for it?

--why not go to sais and tack on a columbia mba?

Hey people,

I am facing a difficult decision: I have been admitted to SAIS (Bologna-DC) and will be able to go there for free (I will even get paid some money per month). However, I have always been fond of the idea of going to SIPA (love NY, love Columbia) but I would need some work experience and would have to apply there in something like two years time.

What would you do? Should I forfeit my scholarship for SAIS and apply to SIPA in two years after getting some professional experience? Or should I take the money and the opportunities given by SAIS? This also given the fact that my chances to obtain another schlarship in two years might not be same. My ultimate goal is to work in the private sector, most likely in the financial sector.

I would be glad for any help on this.

Regards,

007

[Paradoxex22]

Interesting post.

You clearly want to to go to SIPA if all things are equal. The preference you have for the city aside, most people are going to say SAIS is you best option given that you cared enough to even ask. Many individuals think SAIS is a better program, and more respected in the private sector. So even without the financial issue coming into play, many would choose SAIS over SIPA. With the money issue, it becomes even clearer.

SIPA has some advantages, no doubt. However, given your career aspirations, it does not seem to be the best fit for you.

Hopefully this helps.

[JBrodsky]

This may not be a troll, but it certainly sounds like one.

If not, I'd say SAIS is clearly the best choice unless the OP is quite independently wealthy or has guaranteed external funding, which didn't sound like the case.

[007]

Thank you for the advice you have given. Although it might seem arrogant or strange, I am truly facing the difficulties I have described. However, I do understand that for other people, only getting into SAIS is the main concern.

just curious since your post says you are from/in germany, you will presumably be going back there, and i might want eventually want to end up there: are either jhu or columbia well known in germany? i used to work for an igo (similar to GTZ but not that one specifically) and my impression was from talking to people was that they didn't really (it was sort of like harvard, mit, and berkeley that were known there).

--will the name open so many doors for you that the 60k is worth the long term investment?

--what is your focus? is either school better for it?

--why not go to sais and tack on a columbia mba?

I would say that Columbia is much better known in Germany than JHU. I wouldn't be honest if I'd deny this to be one (among many) reasons why I face this internal decision process at all. In Germany, everyone will know Harvard, and some may know Yale or Oxbridge. MIT certainly not. Berkeley maybe (although I always wonder why it has got this outstanding reputation). Columbia will be partially known because of its location and ivy-league-affliation. JHU is more or less unknown (deducing from the look on people's face when told where I might be heading).

The Columbia name might open doors to me in the professional world. I cannot really figure out what the advantage over SAIS would be, but I know that people connect it to the ivy-thing / business school, so that brand name might be an issue, particularly in the financial realm.

My focus is economics, economic policy and finance. Both schools somehow focus on this, while SIPA would enable me to take classes at the business school.

I have thought of the alternative of a later Columbia-MBA. However, this will take another two years and if I'd want to do a MBA at all, I could also do it in one year in Europe.

In general, it seems to me that turning down the SAIS package could be a serious mistake (which you all have more or less confirmed), but the idea of being in NYC after some WE is slightly tempting as well. Just out of curiosity: Is there a comparable brand name difference between the two institutions in the US as I face it over here?

[carpecc]

I think Columbia has slightly better name recognition since its an old Ivy Leager, but Hopkins is by no means a slouch. Hopkins has a reputation for the being one of the top, most competitive schools in the nation. While it might not turn as many heads in Germany, I'm sure among people in your field it will.

SAIS is very quant heavy, sounds like up your alley. If you've been rejected by SIPA and you already know what kind of focus you want to take your MA then definitely go to SAIS. You can always supplement it with a one-year MBA in Europe or an exec MBA down the road.

The main question is, do you want to be holding the positions an MA offers in two years (if you go to SAIS), or in four (if you wait to reapply to SIPA)? If you go to SAIS now, you can engage in more advanced, more meaningful jobs sooner. If you really have a NYC fix, just move to NYC after you graduate from SAIS.

AND ITS FREE! 100k is 100k, regardless of how much money you're making.

Do you have some pretty good job options if you don't go to SAIS now?

[007]

No, I haven't applied for jobs so far but wouldn't think of this to be a major problem.

You might be right about the more sophisticated type of jobs that I would be doing after the MA degree. Never really thought about this...

[bestfootforward]

I was not planning to weigh in again since I am only a prospective applicant, but as a layperson, but I disagree with the notion that columbia has only a slightly better reputation than jhu. fairly or not, US schools are judged on the basis of their undergrad reputation, and in that field, JHU is not considered in the same tier as ivy league schools.

this is not to say it is not an awesome, awesome school, but only to say that the "brand" difference between jhu and columbia is more than marginal. to the lay person.

as for "people in [his] field" -- it doesn't sound like he is planning to go into anything in the international relations field, and, having worked in the idev field abroad, no name except for harvard turns heads. (as a side note, this is annoying because misinformed people assume they know the US and its schools becuase it is a country they have a lot of exposure to even if they haven't been there...)

that being said, i have no idea how the private sector would view an IR MA vs. an MBA or an econ degree...or the fact that salaries in germany, tend to be lower than those in the US (reflecting the lower cost of living there) -- so that 60k may or may not be important to the OP depending on other personal financial factors.

interesting point about better jobs -- without the prerequisite work experience for a given job, though, will an MA just get you into high-powered jobs? would be curious...

I think Columbia has slightly better name recognition since its an old Ivy Leager, but Hopkins is by no means a slouch. Hopkins has a reputation for the being one of the top, most competitive schools in the nation. While it might not turn as many heads in Germany, I'm sure among people in your field it will.

SAIS is very quant heavy, sounds like up your alley. If you've been rejected by SIPA and you already know what kind of focus you want to take your MA then definitely go to SAIS. You can always supplement it with a one-year MBA in Europe or an exec MBA down the road.

The main question is, do you want to be holding the positions an MA offers in two years (if you go to SAIS), or in four (if you wait to reapply to SIPA)? If you go to SAIS now, you can engage in more advanced, more meaningful jobs sooner. If you really have a NYC fix, just move to NYC after you graduate from SAIS.

AND ITS FREE! 100k is 100k, regardless of how much money you're making.

Do you have some pretty good job options if you don't go to SAIS now?

Edited March 16, 2010 by bestfootforward

[Saladin]

Hi everyone. Im facing a slightly similar situation as 007. I got into the SIPA MIA without funding, and on the wait list for SAIS. The trouble is that cuz i got waitlisted by SAIS i wont be in the running for a scholarship that im pretty confident i would have got if i had been a regular acceptance.

The question is: Given my focus on international development, and that I actually get into SAIS without funding, which one should I go for? As an international student Columbia's brand name really appeals to me, but Im also aware of the reputation of SAIS's IR program among employers. Any suggestions would be welcome!

[carpecc]

Hi everyone. Im facing a slightly similar situation as 007. I got into the SIPA MIA without funding, and on the wait list for SAIS. The trouble is that cuz i got waitlisted by SAIS i wont be in the running for a scholarship that im pretty confident i would have got if i had been a regular acceptance.

The question is: Given my focus on international development, and that I actually get into SAIS without funding, which one should I go for? As an international student Columbia's brand name really appeals to me, but Im also aware of the reputation of SAIS's IR program among employers. Any suggestions would be welcome!

Saladin, I'm in your same boat. In at SIPA, waitlisted at SAIS. Originally SIPA was more first choice, but I'm a China fiend and SAIS has a superior China connection.

Given that I don't have a strong econ background (I plan to take some correspondence classes this spring/summer) I'm very doubtful I'll get off the SAIS waitlist. In addition, I'm probably not going to start next fall, so I have to decide to defer SIPA or keep my options open and reapply next year. Any guidance?

[Saladin]

Saladin, I'm in your same boat. In at SIPA, waitlisted at SAIS. Originally SIPA was more first choice, but I'm a China fiend and SAIS has a superior China connection.

Given that I don't have a strong econ background (I plan to take some correspondence classes this spring/summer) I'm very doubtful I'll get off the SAIS waitlist. In addition, I'm probably not going to start next fall, so I have to decide to defer SIPA or keep my options open and reapply next year. Any guidance?

carpecc, assuming you dont get off the wait list for SAIS, and wont start grad school this fall, what's the harm in deferring SIPA? it doesnt cost you anything and still keeps an option open for next semester. And if youre really stuck on SAIS, then buff up on some econ course work this year and reapply next year. that's what i think. good luck!

[Saladin]

sorry for the double post.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Saladin

[Captain Moneybags]

SAIS for free, no questions asked. You should be congratulating yourself- I don't know how you pulled that one off. My impression is that SAIS is the slightly more difficult school to get into. Its too bad we can't swap- I got into both schools but got nothing but SAIS except some Federal loans. Gee, thanks guys. SIPA gave me a $20,000 a year fellowship, and I'm yet to hear back from Financial Aid about the regular grants/loans.

I was wondering- which do you think is the better option (SAIS or SIPA w/ Fellowship)? I'm a pretty short on change. Still , I keep hearing about how the SAIS cats are "running the show", especially in the Beltway and I absolutely hate the idea of being pushed around by graduates from a program I was accepted by. Ultimate goal is private sector too- possibly as an energy/environmental consultant. Maybe finance. Anyway, any advice would be really, really appreciated. Thanks guys.

[saiser]

I'm biased since I'm current student at SAIS but if I were you I'd definitely go to choose SAIS. I know a lot of Germans who went to SAIS and trust me they fare EXTREMELY well getting placed in the private sector. Every year there seems to be a German SAIS grad who goes to McKinsey.

Plus, SIPA won't get you better private sector placements. Sure you can take B-school classes but take a look at SAIS' international finance program, it's pretty solid.

If you really want the Ivy League brand name on your resume and you're interested in B-School classes/private sector, I'd suggest you look at doing a joint degree. Wharton would be a good one that's compatible with the SAIS MA. And while it's not an official joint-degree program, I know someone who is doing a joint degree with SAIS and Columbia GSB. If you're thinking of foregoing the 100K+ from SAIS (and that's what it's going to be since you're getting full tuition plus a stipend), I'd funnel that money into an MBA. There is absolutely no guarantee you'll get anything from SIPA, and it's especially the case for first year funding. They're notoriously stingy dispensing that.

[007]

Thanks again for your input.

I was just checking out the employment statistics of last year from both SAIS and SIPA. It somehow occurred to me that SIPA tends to place more people into the bulge bracket banks. As this is one potential career path for me, I am somewhat worried that SIPA in fact is the better place for finance-related jobs. Do you think this is unjustified?

[lns25]

Yes, unjustified. Tons of people from SAIS go into finance. You should go to SAIS. People always deliberate about whether SAIS or SIPA is better and they're really on par with each other in most ways. I understand the name difference but anyone who's hiring and knows about this is going to know that SAIS is very rigorous and absolutely as impressive as SIPA, if not more (depending on who they are. Some people think so and others do not, in terms of professionals who do hiring; it totally depends who you ask.)

Go to SAIS for free and don't look back! You rock it while you're there, get close to your profs, take advantage of all the DC networking opportunities in a resourceful way, and you're absolutely set for life. No way you could do better than that at SIPA considering the opportunity cost of working with a BA for another two years and potentially paying for it vs. a free ride at SAIS. Seriously.

Thanks again for your input.

I was just checking out the employment statistics of last year from both SAIS and SIPA. It somehow occurred to me that SIPA tends to place more people into the bulge bracket banks. As this is one potential career path for me, I am somewhat worried that SIPA in fact is the better place for finance-related jobs. Do you think this is unjustified?

[007]

Yes, unjustified. Tons of people from SAIS go into finance. You should go to SAIS. People always deliberate about whether SAIS or SIPA is better and they're really on par with each other in most ways. I understand the name difference but anyone who's hiring and knows about this is going to know that SAIS is very rigorous and absolutely as impressive as SIPA, if not more (depending on who they are. Some people think so and others do not, in terms of professionals who do hiring; it totally depends who you ask.)

Go to SAIS for free and don't look back! You rock it while you're there, get close to your profs, take advantage of all the DC networking opportunities in a resourceful way, and you're absolutely set for life. No way you could do better than that at SIPA considering the opportunity cost of working with a BA for another two years and potentially paying for it vs. a free ride at SAIS. Seriously.

Thanks!

Which school will you attend? And are you French (as your info says Paris as location)? Would be interesting to know about the recognition of the programs and SAIS particularly in France.

[carpecc]

carpecc, assuming you dont get off the wait list for SAIS, and wont start grad school this fall, what's the harm in deferring SIPA? it doesnt cost you anything and still keeps an option open for next semester. And if youre really stuck on SAIS, then buff up on some econ course work this year and reapply next year. that's what i think. good luck!

Thanks for the thoughts Saladin. Yea, after some deliberating I've sent a request to defer. SIPA's a great program and I'm lucky to get in. It's not worth it to go through the pain of the application process again and risk getting rejected. Plus if I reapply I might choose SIPA in the end anyways, which would make me feel pretty stupid. Wish me luck on my deferral!

[carpecc]

interesting point about better jobs -- without the prerequisite work experience for a given job, though, will an MA just get you into high-powered jobs? would be curious...

Without experience it probably won't get you the "high-powered jobs" but it will let you be better at the jobs you do get, finish tasks faster, advance faster, be capable of tackling bigger projects and open the doors for many jobs (entry level or not) that would not be available without it.

A close friend who recently finished her MA says her IR grad friends from top schools are having trouble getting IR jobs, mostly because of the economy and they don't have the prerequisite work experience. They're young or were making a career change. I can't imagine what it must be like to get IR jobs without an MA!

[bestfootforward]

op, what did you finally decide? i'm curious.

[007]

I decided for SAIS now. After giving it some thought, I was convinced that I should take up the privilege of almost full funding now instead of postponing the whole thing.

SIPA might have offered the ideal package for me but SAIS is still a fantsatic choice, and for IR as such most likely the better one. As I posted in some other thread, one tends to get lost in an internal debate over prestige and name recognition. In the end, SAIS is THE top IR school although not being at an ivy uni and that should be the only argument worth counting.

Anyways, thanks a lot for your input!

[KattivS]

Hey people,

I am facing a difficult decision: I have been admitted to SAIS (Bologna-DC) and will be able to go there for free (I will even get paid some money per month). However, I have always been fond of the idea of going to SIPA (love NY, love Columbia) but I would need some work experience and would have to apply there in something like two years time.

What would you do? Should I forfeit my scholarship for SAIS and apply to SIPA in two years after getting some professional experience? Or should I take the money and the opportunities given by SAIS? This also given the fact that my chances to obtain another schlarship in two years might not be same. My ultimate goal is to work in the private sector, most likely in the financial sector.

I would be glad for any help on this.

Regards,

007

Just out of curiosity, how on earth did you pull that off? I got accepted into SAIS, which I am really thrilled about, but got no financial backing what so ever. Since then I have been forced to sit down and consider how many decades it would take me to pay off a loan of 80.000 € . Where did you apply for financial aid? … And to everybody out there. What do you think, is it worth borrowing the money? I was considering deferring for a year and hoping for financial aid next year, but apparently financial reasons are not relevant when applying for a deferral. How likely is it that I get accepted again if I reapply next year?