Top 20 Or Don't Go

[Trilobites]

This is the most ludicrous thing I have heard over and over with respect to PhD programs in English, coming not only from this forum, but 'advice' or 'thoughts' for prospective graduate students to be had everywhere. Yes, we all know getting accepted to Princeton and Harvard, Berkeley or Yale, etc. to study with 'the best' means you would be doing a great disservice to the 'community' of scholarly contributions if you simply decided not to embark on your chosen specialization (Blake studies needs me!). But seriously, I propose we all print off the top 50 or 100 list; I've heard talk there are lists on the Internet (my girlfriend always says she is on the Internets when I ask from the other room what she's doing. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be pluralized or not). Now lets print this off and only apply to to the top 20, because God man! I simply can't add anything to the discussion if I don't earn my PhD from 'that' school. I mean seriously, I will be offered this tenure track position once I have my degree because I studied the Victorian novel with 'this' professor (I've heard rumors though, that some universities not on the list have libraries where books are, and that these are the same books at all other universities). I realize the job market is tough, and it's "all about job placement" you might tell me. And let's be real, the passion for literature, at the level of PhD study, does need to be balanced with eyes looking ahead to the future. And while it's probably true that if your goal is to be a leading scholar on whatever it is that most interests you, and you show up to the interview with your 'lowly' degree and all these conferences you presented at, with your few publications, you will not be given the job. Because you see, it has nothing to do with the attempt at expertise that can be had in libraries all over the world, and everything to do with names. So go on...and you'll hear the same thing about law schools (as I write this my father is venting about how no one will hire him because he didn't get his JD from Duke or Harvard, but WNEC). It's true people, so lets join forces, because you know, at this point in my life, I've come to the realization that I can't ever say anything about 'Infinite Jest', open the text up to a wider range of possibility, unless I have a mailing address in certain college towns. I am also aware that there is a direct correlation between a professor's research, and their ability to teach. In other words, I understand that I could have received a better education at some places than I could have at others. Because I studied Joyce in Storrs, and not in New Haven, the book is closed off to me, available only to those select few. It's closing time, and I'm sitting at the bar alone, with my second-rate knowledge, my failure to even be admitted into conferences and lectures because I sweat the salt of unopened library books sitting in musty shelves in Storrs, spines bound and sent to die in Connecticut. I've got my eye on the Ivies for next year. English is tough though, because you know, unlike Physics, most applicants have a 4.0 in their undergraduate English departments. My goal for today is becoming the leading scholar on a collection of short stories by Breece D'J Pancake. It's all he ever wrote, and my sister's brother, Max, heard from the soda-jerk at the local Dairy Queen that you have to write a Thesis for a PhD. I've contacted my top 5 Ivy choices, and inquired as to whether or not I can write a shorter thesis if and when I become matriculated because my area of interest (this week) is not high in output.

[straightshooting]

What. the. fuck.

[woolfie]

I don't understand which parts of this are sarcastic, which parts are serious, or what the overall point is.

[Jennifer]

i'm witchu woolfie.

[PaperChaser]

Hmmmm. I can only speak for myself and my close friends/family, but I disagree that tenure track jobs are impossibilities for people who didn't get their degrees from the "top" schools. That said, tenure track jobs at "top schools" may be really hard to get if you didn't go to an Ivy, but there is no such thing as impossible. A tenure track job at a "good" or respectable school is attainable, but it may require more personal networking for those of us who don't have super-prestigious degrees. I've NEVER gone to a prestigious school (failed out of non-flagship state school, bounced around junior colleges, got BA from non-flagship state school, got MA from same school, got law degree from brand-new law school no one's heard of...) and I have had NO problem finding work. I've competed against the Duke law students-even UNC and Wake Forest are technically "vastly superior" to me-and beaten them out for summer associate positions and (eventually) a pretty good gig where I'll not only be the first associate, I'll be the first female attorney. Every lawyer there went to a super-prestigious school and was Order of the Coif and law review. So what? That doesn't make them better than me; it means they probably paid a hell of a lot more for undergrad and law school than I did and maybe had higher undergrad grades. Ok. But in every department or law firm or business, there has to be at least ONE person who everyone likes and/or is easy to deal with, and I made damn sure to impress upon every person I've worked with (academia, law world, and otherwise) that I'm absolutely reliable, super-hardworking, and extremely grateful for the opportunity. A good attitude often tips the scales.

My advice to you is to knock the "but the world is closed to me if I don't have an Ivy PhD!" chip off your shoulder. It's not. You may have to work a little harder, force yourself to network (which I sense may not be your favorite thing to do), and yeah, kiss a little ass. But people will remember you, they'll like you, and when you apply for jobs or go to conventions, you'll have laid the groundwork for getting that dream job.

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

ummmm....

Prozac anyone?

(sorry. I, too, have NO IDEA what was sarcastic, what was serious, and what the difference between them was).

[strokeofmidnight]

My advice to you is to knock the "but the world is closed to me if I don't have an Ivy PhD!" chip off your shoulder. It's not. You may have to work a little harder, force yourself to network (which I sense may not be your favorite thing to do), and yeah, kiss a little ass. But people will remember you, they'll like you, and when you apply for jobs or go to conventions, you'll have laid the groundwork for getting that dream job.

Well-put. It's also worth reiterating...as long as you approach academia with that chip on your shoulder, it becomes a self-fulling prophecy. Go where you can do your best work...or, alternatively, make the best of the resources that you've got. While a brand name does lift eyebrows and crack open doors, my experience of academics (even at uber-prestigious programs) suggests that they're willing to change their predispositions if your work (and your professional demeanor) indicates otherwise. That goes both ways. A Harvard PhD with a lackluster diss won't find a job, especially in this market. A Podunk U PhD with an outstanding diss will stand as good (or better) chance as any...though perhaps that latter has to work harder to make up for fewer resources.

[Trilobites]

What. the. fuck.

Prozac.

Chip on my shoulder.

Wow. Seriously? I guess students in English aren't as well versed at reading between the lines as I thought.

My point is simple: Publications and research speak for themselves, not where you earned your degree.

This frustration grows out of garbage such as this: http://www.wlu.edu/x22901.xml and many others (go ahead, search around), as well as the fact that there are those (in this forum, no less), who want others to rank programs for them.

Why is this?

Bite the bullet, attend your 178th ranked program if that is where you got in, and if you have something to say, whether or not you 'learned' how to say it at a prestigious university has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you will be provided a forum (e.g. the univ. classroom) in which to teach. The connection between teaching and publishing is a rant for another day, but seriously, a little less on the rankings and a little more on the writing. You want to study creative writing? I got news for you. If you study with Saunders at Syracuse, you will become a writer. Neat-o, huh? The same people who obsess over rankings could very well be the same people who come up with thesis topics that, after you read them, you might just want to slap in the face.

And I prefer marijuana to prozac, by the way.

[Historiogaffe]

As people have pointed out, rules were made to be broken. In my opinion, so was this OP's juggernaut of a paragraph.

[strokeofmidnight]

What. the. fuck.

Prozac.

Chip on my shoulder.

Wow. Seriously? I guess students in English aren't as well versed at reading between the lines as I thought.

My point is simple: Publications and research speak for themselves, not where you earned your degree.

This frustration grows out of garbage such as this: http://www.wlu.edu/x22901.xml and many others (go ahead, search around), as well as the fact that there are those (in this forum, no less), who want others to rank programs for them.

If a bunch of English prospective graduate students are struggling to understand what the hell you're saying, there's a chance--a tiny one--that the fault doesn't entirely rest with them. I don't know if being denser than Lacan is actually a positive attribute.

Now that you've elucidated that paragraph for us, I agree with the gist of your claims (it's what you produce, not the prestige) that counts...if not quite your attitude. So who exactly are you trying to recriminate? And why? and why in the world would you do it in this manner?

[peppermint.beatnik]

I read the paragraph prior to others posting. I was surprised no one understood, maybe under the guise of disagreement, but . . .

It wasn't well written, but you could still get the point.

[hadunc]

And I prefer marijuana to prozac, by the way.

Dude, how high were you when you wrote this?

[Historiogaffe]

I read the paragraph prior to others posting. I was surprised no one understood, maybe under the guise of disagreement, but . . .

It wasn't well written, but you could still get the point.

I'm impressed you made it through the entire paragraph (though perhaps a vaguer term – say, prose installment – would be more apt). The contents are comprehensible enough, but the writer's ethos seemed akin to that of a vehement but ill-informed dinner companion with a piece of spinach stuck between his teeth. I imagine that's where most of us felt derailed. Understanding the point is one thing; being persuaded by it, unfortunately, is entirely another.

That said, I can sympathise with the general academic-job-market woe.

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

And I prefer marijuana to prozac, by the way.

So do I, incidentally.

And like others here, while I agree with the general idea (go to where the best fit is), the underlying rage is a bit offputting.

and yes, breaking paragraphs is a good idea once in a while - especially when moving between rant and sarcasm/irony every other sentence.