What will you do if you strike out completely?

[MissingVandyCandy]

I know several of you have already gotten in somewhere. Congrats. As competitive as PhD programs are some of us will not get in anywhere. I imagine most of you, like me, are utterly convinced that the prospect of a career outside of college teaching and academia is really a tough/bitter pill to swallow. I know the idea of a 9-5 would probably put me into long term depression (many of you might be in the same position). I don't hate my job, but it isn't my passion and I am the sort of person that can't compartmentalize my job from my passion. I am convinced that academia is the only career that allows one to tie their job to perpetual learning for oneself. Anyway blah blah blah.. My point/question is this... I have no reason to despair yet (haven't been rejected), but that said, it is possible... so I want to poll everyone: What will you do? Will you try again. Will you go into depression? Will you quit your job and sulk? LOL... points for creativity.

[uncapp]

Quit my temporary job in NC and become marooned in the government bureaucracy of DC. Of course, as some of my ex-classmates are discovering, an M.A. degree from Appalachian State isn't all that impressive to many employers up there.

[silencio1982]

I know several of you have already gotten in somewhere. Congrats. As competitive as PhD programs are some of us will not get in anywhere. I imagine most of you, like me, are utterly convinced that the prospect of a career outside of college teaching and academia is really a tough/bitter pill to swallow. I know the idea of a 9-5 would probably put me into long term depression (many of you might be in the same position). I don't hate my job, but it isn't my passion and I am the sort of person that can't compartmentalize my job from my passion. I am convinced that academia is the only career that allows one to tie their job to perpetual learning for oneself. Anyway blah blah blah.. My point/question is this... I have no reason to despair yet (haven't been rejected), but that said, it is possible... so I want to poll everyone: What will you do? Will you try again. Will you go into depression? Will you quit your job and sulk? LOL... points for creativity.

We sound a lot alike, haha. Well, I am not ready to give up yet. I am hoping to get into MAPSS at U Chicago with some funding as a plan B. I can do a lot to strengthen my app, re-take the GRE, take some methods classes, get a new writing sample. Luckily I can mooch off my husband for a year if I get into MAPSS, but I would really, really not want to take on student loans. An alternative possibility is trying to work for a university. I'm in development/fundraising right now so I could try to get a job in a university development dept and take a class or 2 to fill in gaps in my application. Anyways I am finding it really hard to deal with the thought of being rejected from everywhere, but I am definitely prepared for it to happen as it seems I have set my sights too high. It's actually not that depressing though, since I've formulated a plan to try again.

[JordanJames]

If I don't get in anywhere, then I'll probably apply for a Masters in Political Management, move to DC and try to find work somewhere there. I'll try to get published. I'll apply again next year and see what happens. Or, I'll try my hand at poker in AC. Or, I'll practice law (and probably shoot myself if I'm still doing that in 5 years).

[parker]

Most likely, I'll end up going to law school. For me, the debate was always between practicing politics pr studying politics. And while my heart is set on "studying" politics (hence the applications to PhD programs), entering politics in some form or fashion wouldn't be the worst thing ever.

And I currently work at a law office, so although the reality of actually being a practicing attorney is not ideal, it wouldn't come as a complete shock, either.

That said, I hope to hell that I get in somewhere.

[eve2008]

I have obviously been really lucky this cycle, but I just wanted to chime in because I did spend a lot of time wondering about what would happen if. I had several friends from college with higher grades and better scores who "struck out" when they applied, and so I entered this cycle intimidated and fatalistic, perhaps to an irrational degree.

Anyway, I swallowed hard and threw my apps into the lottery. I pretty much knew academia was my dream, and decided to give myself two cycles to get into a dream program. If it didn't work out, I would consider myself lucky. A Ph.D is an incredible investment, and I think being admitted to a program you like is an important vote of confidence by other academics who have been doing this a lot longer that yes, you potentially have whatever it takes.

If you strike out, I would say take another year to work on whatever aspect of your application may have been weakest; reconsider your application strategy (did you apply to a range of reach/safety schools? did you contact any faculty beforehand and are the departments *really* a good fit for your interests?); and consider applying to a master's degree program if that's feasible (a chance to get more research experience, better recommendations, a more focused statement, and new grades). But don't give up! At least, not if this is your first time.

I know a poster on the xoxohth site who applied to at least a half dozen programs last year in sociology, was rejected from all of them, spent another year in the policy world getting some kick-ass experience, applied again this year, and was rejected again from every school, save one: Princeton.

[polisciapp]

I'm wondering if I can get my money back from some of these schools *the poster says half-kidding*. I am emotionally spent and entirely frustrated by this whole experience. Waiting SUCKS.

[nina gorman]

Dear Despairing,

I too am preparing for the possibility of striking out completely - especially since I've applied to only three programs, but I do not want any PhD. I want to take content specific courses and to work with specific professors to prepare to write books (i.e., on civil war and authoritarianism esp. in Africa) and do community speaking for non-profit. I have taught f.t for an HBCU and have done adjunct work in social science for close to 20 years. Ideally, I aim for f.t. teaching but don't expect it at a major urban U. I also aspire to teach overseas a bit while researching or adjuncting / visiting lecturing.

Academia as you note is extremely competitive and getting worse. Hence, a poli sci advisor at Temple discouraged me from pursuing the doctorate for purposes of securing a f.t. professor position, partly since Temple had several hundred applications for a few teaching slots for the poli sci dept there where he teaches. Most universities get at least 100 or more for a slot or two, but much less if they don't offer as much pay (e.g. community colleges, historically black universities, catholic ones). There are still vacancies if you consider these lower paying colleges. The community college I work for is having trouble hiring since it pays low forties and can't attract the well published or experienced. II saw both LaSalle and Barry have trouble filling spots with their 40,000 salary offers (with even green PhDs). As you probably know, most universities want publicaiton history and the major urban ones prefer Ivy league as well.

Don't despair. There are opportunites with less prestigious schools; adjuncting that is still pretty easy to get despite weak pay in many places (are some islands of decent pay) and there are non-profits and think tanks, and sometimes temp fill in opportunities, and for better or worse in f.t. academia is still partly based on who you know and whether your speciality area is what they are seeking. Despite our oppression with slim pickens, we are among the highly privileged to have gotten this far. Half of Africa's adults still have not even completed primary school and walk for water every day. It's the way of the world. Nina

[nina gorman]

Dear MVC:

Sorry for mistake of calling you despairing when you specifically said you were not desparing yet over possible future strike out. I also didn't answer directly your poll-

I'll continue my part time adjunct work with a community college and my part time counseling with severely mentally ill folks. Also plan to write on civil war in Congo, try to get a few poems and papers published (am not published yet), pick back up more with some volunteer political work (hard to find the democratic socialists in Philly tho) and/or do a poetry workshop in the local prison, and seek out some professors in Philly working on my research interests.

Of course, before I do all this, but after I get the final rejection letter, I'll probably be a slumpy and grouchy B, and just lay around feeling sorry for myself for a few weeks. (I figure I deserve a few good crying spells and self- beratement from all this hard work on courses and applicaitons - could be cathartic). Nina

[Quarex]

VandyCandy: Firstly, your signature is out of date, as you totally have Madison in both "waiting" and "dinged." Also, I am a little sad that there is no overlap between our applications (at least not now that we both got kicked to the curb by Madison), since I have decided going to the same school as you would be hilarious. Oh, wait, I guess we also both have the University of Minnesota. Considering their acceptance rate is lower than Yale's, I am not too optimistic for myself though.

If you strike out, I would say take another year to work on whatever aspect of your application may have been weakest; reconsider your application strategy (did you apply to a range of reach/safety schools? did you contact any faculty beforehand and are the departments *really* a good fit for your interests?); and consider applying to a master's degree program if that's feasible (a chance to get more research experience, better recommendations, a more focused statement, and new grades). But don't give up! At least, not if this is your first time.

I know a poster on the xoxohth site who applied to at least a half dozen programs last year in sociology, was rejected from all of them, spent another year in the policy world getting some kick-ass experience, applied again this year, and was rejected again from every school, save one: Princeton.

I figured I could very well be in the situation where I get all-around rejected and have to figure out how to pick up the pieces and try again, so I went through the same process as seemingly everyone else here--wondered if maybe I could go back in time and fix my grades. Wait, no, I contemplated setting my sights lower, picking up a(nother) master's degree, maybe even getting a good job in the field, trying this whole thing again in a few years, perhaps with an even better GRE score to go with it. I probably would have studied if I had known five years ago that the GRE was not like the ACT. And I probably would not have listened to my mostly professional-bound master's degree classmates when they told me that grades no longer mattered once you got to this level. Sure, they no longer matter if you just want a master's degree so you can get a raise as a probation officer. Jerks.

It is hard to fix the fact that you did everything wrong years ago, and now that you have finally put all the pieces together and have a clear goal (and a passionate love) for your future studies, you have to try to get past the years you spent not having any clue what was going on, and just going to college because you thought you were supposed to do so.

Also, that was a nice encouragement story.

Hence, a poli sci advisor at Temple discouraged me from pursuing the doctorate for purposes of securing a f.t. professor position, partly since Temple had several hundred applications for a few teaching slots for the poli sci dept there where he teaches.

Temple is a very special place, as I have learned. They seem to have a decent program, yet their tenure track is evidently even harder to obtain than some of the best schools in the country--hilariously, the professor I wanted to work with at Temple the most (and the reason I did not end up applying to the school) was denied tenure last year, since even though the department and the chair and whoever else all recommended him for tenure, someone in the dean's office had veto power and seemingly arbitrarily decided he was not what Temple wanted. Harsh. I could also be horribly butchering this story in the re-telling, but I know the "everyone but one person wanted him tenured" part is accurate.

[lenin333]

I certainly will not apply for PhD again. I am considering doing another masters but in finance or economics. Not too hard to get accepted into these with my stats and they pay for themselves. As my uncle advised me, the phd has no value-added in the private sector unless it is in some field like CS or Biomedical etc.

I will be happy in a way. I enjoyed my pre-phd-ambitions life. I liked having the time to run for an hour a day and feel the wind on my face. No concern to be the best or impress anyone. It was a simpler time. I have a great girlfriend who doesn't care if I am "successful' or not. She just wants me to be happy and work in a place where I am happy.

Long term, I want to own a cafe on the beach in a far-away place with high inflation!

[MissingVandyCandy]

The PhD may have no "value" for most of society. But the idea of escaping the 9-5 workday and living a unique life through a "luxury" profession is for me, PRICELESS.

[polisciapp]

Long term, I want to own a cafe on the beach in a far away place with high-inflation!

If you don't already live there, move to Florida--though I doubt that is as "far away" as you want.

[nina gorman]

Re: The Temple applicant with the prof declined tenure. That's something. The two profs I met there, Tony Lucero and Mike Hooper were both pretty cool- laid back but into their work. I have not had much interaction with their polisci dept since I just returned to Temple nonmatric grad in poic sci. The students I met there enjoyed the program and the profs but a few bemoaned the limited courses available some semesters.

I found the culture particularly harsh in the sociology dept, tho, when was in the doctoral program there. For our qualifying exams for the MA (which allowed or disallowed us from continuning on to the PhD), the committee grading these two day essay exams gave about a dozen of us a "low pass", two or three of us a "high pass", and one or two a no pass.

Most of us then received form letters telling us we were not sufficiently qualified to pursue the PhD and would do best to exit the program now. When some of us approached the committee about the letters (as we all had As and Bs and took our work seriously), we were told that they sent those letters every year and that it was all part of the "initiation process" into the PhD program.

Other soc students in my cohort and myself were pretty turned off nevertheless by this harsh culture, but most stayed on anyway. I was glad I had to leave to go to Florida to help family (where I had the luck of landing a f.t. job teaching with my psych Masters at a HBCU). nina aka gurly flynn

[rising_star]

Dear MVC:

Sorry for mistake of calling you despairing when you specifically said you were not desparing yet over possible future strike out. I also didn't answer directly your poll-

I'll continue my part time adjunct work with a community college and my part time counseling with severely mentally ill folks. Also plan to write on civil war in Congo, try to get a few poems and papers published (am not published yet), pick back up more with some volunteer political work (hard to find the democratic socialists in Philly tho) and/or do a poetry workshop in the local prison, and seek out some professors in Philly working on my research interests.

Of course, before I do all this, but after I get the final rejection letter, I'll probably be a slumpy and grouchy B, and just lay around feeling sorry for myself for a few weeks. (I figure I deserve a few good crying spells and self- beratement from all this hard work on courses and applicaitons - could be cathartic). Nina

I think I want to be your grad student assistant on that book writing project. Sounds fascinating the civil war, authoritarianism, and Africa... right up my (geographic) alley!

[nina gorman]

Rising star,

I am trying to get into grad school too and if accepted will likely be a grad assistant myself. Where are you applying to? Are you poli science major? I've been rejected by WUSTL for Poli Sci and waiting on CUNY for Poli sci and U of Md College Park for Soc. Nina aka Liz Gurley Flynn

[rising_star]

Nina,

I'm not actually in poli sci at all. I'm in geography and my main interests center around resources, conservation, and development.

[lenin333]

I am pretty distraught at this point. I keep going over how I could have written a stronger statement or how my current transcript fails to point out what discipline my courses were in. Or the choice of recommenders. FUCH!

[silencio1982]

I am pretty distraught at this point. I keep going over how I could have written a stronger statement or how my current transcript fails to point out what discipline my courses were in. Or the choice of recommenders. FUCH!

hey, hang in there. my mood swings wildly between utter disappointment and self-blame on one hand, and resignation (with determination to try again) on the other. it is depressing to think that i have been a successful student-- in fact, i believe being a student is one of my strongest talents-- and i am being unceremoniously rejected from further graduate study. the truth is i am not used to being rejected (at least, academia-wise) and it hurts. i have gone over everything in my applications multiple times and at varying points wish i could have done it all differently. but if i am honest with myself i know i put together a fairly strong application. none of my recommenders told me my schools were wildly off-base, in fact, they recommended several of the programs to me. so i know at least in their eyes that i am qualified. at times i am miserable contemplating the fact that i have a strong chance of striking out completely. but it is truthfully not the end of the world for me. i will try again next year. (if i don't get in next year, then it will be the end of the world, haha!)

[nina gorman]

Rising Star,

Interesting areas in geography. Can you point to any good sources or authors on obstacles to providing potable water in SubSaharan Africa or elsewhere on the continent? I understand about half the inhabitants of the continent struggle without running water/ sanitation/ drinkable water- hence, part of the reason for high child mortality rates from preventable contagious diseases. I would like to do a few papers on the sociological/ political obstacles to addressing this. Any ideas? Nina aka gurley flynn

[rising_star]

Sorry, nina. Definitely not the area I'm read in.

[MissingVandyCandy]

Hemlock. That simple.

[Quarex]

The bitter twist is that I had a fully funded acceptance last year and only applied to 2 schools. Worst decision of my life, I will probably remember that decision more than asking my future wife to marry me and the birth of my children. Yes I am a sick man.

As long as you are a sick man, you must have no problem with telling us why you turned down a fully funded position to end up back here again a year later.

[MissingVandyCandy]

Sure happy to. Basically, I got caught between a job offer in policy that my undergrad thesis advisor wanted me to take and the application season itself. As a result I had only gotten 2 applications out the door in September of 2006 and my advisor said he didn't want to recommend me until after some work experience at this research tank. So basically I ended up getting into 1 of the 2 places I applied.

[MissingVandyCandy]

Oh and for the record, I did seek a deferral last year just to be safe. It was not allowed.