Stanford Statistics MS Program

[bei]

Hello, everyone,

This is my first post here. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Though Stanford Statistics ranks #1 in USA, I was told this MS program accepts a lot of students every year, and it's not that good. Does anyone know any similar information? Is it hard to find a job after graduation for an international student?

The admission letter shows $60,000 would be sufficient to cover anything to live and study in Stanford for about 2 to 3 years. Is it true? I feel like it is underestimated. I mean California is a city with high cost of living. Just $60,000 to include expensive tuitions and rent for TWO years seems to be unreasonable. Can someone studying at California clear up my suspicion?

Thank you!

[ebaronov]

I agree that $60.000 for two years is underestimated. It is the estimated cost of living for about ONE year according to their own website:

http://studentaffair...ancing-expenses

Are they offering you some form of financial support, reduced tuition, TA or something like that?

Edited March 24, 2010 by ebaronov

[bei]

I agree that $60.000 for two years is underestimated. It is the estimated cost of living for about ONE year according to their own website:

http://studentaffair...ancing-expenses

Are they offering you some form of financial support, reduced tuition, TA or something like that?

Thank you for your quick reply.

There is no financial support available for the Statistics MS degree. That's why it's hard for me to make decision between Stanford Master without founding and Iowa State University PhD with full funding. (I'm still waiting for other 6 schools.)

Students in this program usually get MS degree in 15 to 18 months, that means I should assume to pay $103,000 to $123,000. That's so much!!!

BTW, I'm wondering how student can take courses in Winter Quarter. Is Winter Quarter 3 months? For my undergraduate school, there is no winter session. The winter holiday is less than a month!

[origin415]

You seem to have a choice for paying $120,000 for an MS from the #1 school, and a full ride for a PhD at the #5 school. Unless you are going into industry straight after, and having a PhD won't be an advantage over an MS, and the Stanford name carries $120,000 of extra earning power, I think your choice is clear.

BTW, I'm wondering how student can take courses in Winter Quarter. Is Winter Quarter 3 months? For my undergraduate school, there is no winter session. The winter holiday is less than a month!

http://studentaffair...ademic-calendar

This year, winter quarter went from January 4th to March 12th.

The fall and spring quarters are smaller at Stanford than your undergrad, the year is divided into quarters instead of semesters.

Edited March 24, 2010 by origin415

[bei]

You seem to have a choice for paying $120,000 for an MS from the #1 school, and a full ride for a PhD at the #5 school. Unless you are going into industry straight after, and having a PhD won't be an advantage over an MS, and the Stanford name carries $120,000 of extra earning power, I think your choice is clear.

--- Thank you for your suggestion. I'd like to go to industry straight after my graduation, which causes the dilemma. It seems that Stanford emphasizes more on theoretical statistics, and ISU emphasizes on applied statistics. I have no idea which program will be better for my future industry job.

The fall and spring quarters are smaller at Stanford than your undergrad, the year is divided into quarters instead of semesters.

--- Got you! Thank you.

[rooster34]

In general, if you are heading to industry, applied is the name of the game. If you are correct in your assumptions about the two programs (Stanford = theoretical while ISU = applied), then this you've got yet another reason to go to Ames.

[OuterMeasure]

Thank you for your quick reply.

There is no financial support available for the Statistics MS degree. That's why it's hard for me to make decision between Stanford Master without founding and Iowa State University PhD with full funding. (I'm still waiting for other 6 schools.)

Students in this program usually get MS degree in 15 to 18 months, that means I should assume to pay $103,000 to $123,000. That's so much!!!

BTW, I'm wondering how student can take courses in Winter Quarter. Is Winter Quarter 3 months? For my undergraduate school, there is no winter session. The winter holiday is less than a month!

This is funny. Bei, I'm in a situation that's extremely similar. I have an offer of a 3-year fellowship for a comajor at ISU with stat and bioinformatics. I have another offer from Wisconsin with no funding, but the only other offer I'm considering at this point is for an M.S. in stat at University of Chicago with nothing more than a 25% tuition reduction. I didn't get into the Stanford M.S. program; congrats, and no hard feelings I think the most qualitative difference between us situation-wise might be that you're not as dead-set on an M.S., and you're more set to go to industry.

My interest is also more in industry at this point, although I wouldn't absolutely rule out the professor route; I'm a little older than most students, and the idea of possibly doing a postdoc and then waiting for tenure (possibly trying multiple universities) is less appealing in that I'd be 40 by the time the dust settled. At the same time I've been living in San Francisco and doing collaborative research for a few years, so I have a strong interest in pursuing a doctoral degree. Working in Biotech could be a great way for me to earn an income while staying close to research; the excitement of science is still there, the chance of getting involved in startups, possibly a lot better compensation, etc. That's the thinking behind my "straddling the fence" between academia and private sector at this time; I want the advanced training so I can really contribute (and excel), but I don't need to be a professor.

I know the program at Chicago would give me a potential stopping point for education, would definitely make me competitive on the job market after a year, and would still be a viable way to transition into a PhD program. The problem is, unless I do stop at the M.S., which I feel is unlikely at this point, I'd have to apply for PhD programs again (probably take the math subject test, which I didn't do this time), and would lose at least a half-year. I supposed I could charge into the M.S. and take all PhD-level courses the whole time, but I might be thwarted by PhDs getting preference in available spaces for these classes.

I visited ISU a month ago because of the fellowship and met with both Stat and BCB faculty. I definitely got good a good feeling about both departments at ISU. On the other hand, life in Iowa will be very different from that in the bay area. Chicago would a more similar experience to S.F. Practical considerations absolutely point to ISU, with the lifestyle of big city versus college town being the only thing that could lean towards UChicago; even then there are benefits to having fewer of the distractions a large city offers. The fellowship would focus me towards genetics, but this is a fairly practical area of research with plenty of crossover with statistics. The Chicago M.S. would be more general in the sense I'd only be studying statistics; I'd have a little opportunity for research while I'd be there, but most of that would occur when I moved on to a PhD program. I might have a better sense of who specifically I'd want to work with after 1 year as opposed to now, where I just have overall good feeling about the ISU faculty and their quality of research.

There's my braindump, and I'd be curious to here some summarization of your thought process. As for living in CA, it is expensive; one-bedroom apt in S.F is about $1000 a month or more. Palo Alto is cheaper than S.F., and is a nice city to call home as well, plus you're closed to anything in the East bay. The cost of living is high, so definitely think about the amount of debt you want to have when you finish your M.S. At ISU, one couple of newlyweds, both graduate students, were able to buy a house. Absolutely unheard of here in the east bay for any student who's not sitting on an inheritance, or something. The cost of living is low in Iowa, and most departments at ISU have a fairly liberal amount of money to give to their students. On the other hand, if you go into a job with high pay in the bay area, 100K of debt isn't that bad. That's said, you could do the same with a graduate degree from ISU, most likely. Maybe you really don't need a PhD, in which case the shorter education time and the California setting balance out larger debt.

You seem to have a choice for paying $120,000 for an MS from the #1 school, and a full ride for a PhD at the #5 school. Unless you are going into industry straight after, and having a PhD won't be an advantage over an MS, and the Stanford name carries $120,000 of extra earning power, I think your choice is clear.

http://studentaffair...ademic-calendar

This year, winter quarter went from January 4th to March 12th.

The fall and spring quarters are smaller at Stanford than your undergrad, the year is divided into quarters instead of semesters.

The choice is pretty clear from many viewpoints, especially in my case. I think stopping and thinking about all the possibilities is still a very useful exercise.

[bei]

In general, if you are heading to industry, applied is the name of the game. If you are correct in your assumptions about the two programs (Stanford = theoretical while ISU = applied), then this you've got yet another reason to go to Ames.

Thank you for your suggestion!

[bei]

I visited ISU a month ago because of the fellowship and met with both Stat and BCB faculty. I definitely got good a good feeling about both departments at ISU. On the other hand, life in Iowa will be very different from that in the bay area. Chicago would a more similar experience to S.F. Practical considerations absolutely point to ISU, with the lifestyle of big city versus college town being the only thing that could lean towards UChicago; even then there are benefits to having fewer of the distractions a large city offers. The fellowship would focus me towards genetics, but this is a fairly practical area of research with plenty of crossover with statistics. The Chicago M.S. would be more general in the sense I'd only be studying statistics; I'd have a little opportunity for research while I'd be there, but most of that would occur when I moved on to a PhD program. I might have a better sense of who specifically I'd want to work with after 1 year as opposed to now, where I just have overall good feeling about the ISU faculty and their quality of research.

Feel free to ask me any information about the Stat Dept. of ISU. As you indicated that you wanted to return to industry, Chicago would offer you more potentially ideal jobs because of its location. BTW, it's really quiet and cold in Ames. However, the Stat Dept. of ISU is very big, and there are many professors who are good at various fields.

Whatever your choice is, best luck with your future!

[OuterMeasure]

Feel free to ask me any information about the Stat Dept. of ISU. As you indicated that you wanted to return to industry, Chicago would offer you more potentially ideal jobs because of its location. BTW, it's really quiet and cold in Ames. However, the Stat Dept. of ISU is very big, and there are many professors who are good at various fields.

Whatever your choice is, best luck with your future!

Bei, thanks for the response. I'm curious, did you decide to stay in Iowa?

[bei]

Bei, thanks for the response. I'm curious, did you decide to stay in Iowa?

I will turn down ISU's offer this weekend. Iowa is too cold to me!!! I will turn down Rice's offer too. Hopefully, some people on the waiting list can get in quickly.

BTW, I'm still waiting for other 5 schools. UNC didn't give me any information. Perhaps I got refused. So sad...

[babaloo]

I would advise against turning down the ISU offer if you haven't done so already. I just don't think a Stanford M.S. in Statistics is worth going 100k+ in debt. The reason they accept a lot of M.S. students is because they have to pay their way through, so as long as they think you can handle the material, they'll probably accept you, and take your money along the way. If you just want an M.S., you can probably get that on your way to the Ph.D. at ISU and just leave after you've completed the M.S. requirements. You won't go $100k in debt, you'll have a degree from a top statistics program, and you'll have the opportunity, if you choose, to get the Ph.D. without having to reapply. I would definitely think a lot more about the debt you'll face and if you really want to deal with the burden of paying it off before turning down ISU for Stanford. Personally, I wouldn't even think twice about taking the ISU offer.

Also, it's late enough in the admissions season that if you haven't heard from schools already, it might be a good idea to contact them and ask them about your status. You might be waitlisted, or rejected, and they just didn't notify you

[rooster34]

I would advise against turning down the ISU offer if you haven't done so already. I just don't think a Stanford M.S. in Statistics is worth going 100k+ in debt. The reason they accept a lot of M.S. students is because they have to pay their way through, so as long as they think you can handle the material, they'll probably accept you, and take your money along the way. If you just want an M.S., you can probably get that on your way to the Ph.D. at ISU and just leave after you've completed the M.S. requirements. You won't go $100k in debt, you'll have a degree from a top statistics program, and you'll have the opportunity, if you choose, to get the Ph.D. without having to reapply. I would definitely think a lot more about the debt you'll face and if you really want to deal with the burden of paying it off before turning down ISU for Stanford. Personally, I wouldn't even think twice about taking the ISU offer.

Also, it's late enough in the admissions season that if you haven't heard from schools already, it might be a good idea to contact them and ask them about your status. You might be waitlisted, or rejected, and they just didn't notify you

I couldn't agree more.

[bei]

I couldn't agree more.

Thank you guys. I haven't declined it yet. Now I can't make up my mind which one to go.

I want to go to industry straight after my graduation. Is there a big difference between having a Ph.D. degree and a Master degree? (I meant difference in job opportunities and wage.)

Would this program pay off my $100,000?

[Pierre]

Although I am in general a person who is very fond of Stanford's program, I think I would really think twice before turning down Iowa. One question that I would at least consider is what type of industry you want to work in - the term industry isn't exactly precise. I would the look at Stanford's program and see what classes are mandatory and what possible electives there are, perhaps you will be able to take only one class that is very close to the particular field that you want to work in or perhaps the entire program fits perfectly into what you want to do...

Remember that Iowa is still a top program and going there wouldn't be a "step down" IMO. Also, aren't rankings (since this is a big pro for Stanford here, I tend to try and disregard rankings in general) generally done for the PhD programs? Yes the MS program should also be very good of course but my impression is that Stanford is great for very theoretical studies of probability and mathematical statistics and if that is what makes the program #1 this should perhaps be considered...I don't know, just my thoughts.

Anyways, just make sure that Stanford at least gives you some edge if you choose to go there because even though it's no problem, you will still be out 100k and will have to pay this back with what you earn...BTW congrats on the admits, you do have a rather pleasant dilemma

[bei]

One question that I would at least consider is what type of industry you want to work in - the term industry isn't exactly precise. I would the look at Stanford's program and see what classes are mandatory and what possible electives there are, perhaps you will be able to take only one class that is very close to the particular field that you want to work in or perhaps the entire program fits perfectly into what you want to do...

Anyways, just make sure that Stanford at least gives you some edge if you choose to go there because even though it's no problem.

Thank you for your great suggestions. I will have a look at the courses, and see whether they match my interest.

Congratulations on your admissions. Which school do you want to go? Oxford?

Edited March 26, 2010 by bei

[Pierre]

Thank you for your great suggestions. I will have a look at the courses, and see whether they matches my interest.

Congratulations on your admissions. Which school do you want to go? Oxford?

No problem. I have tried to be consistent when it comes to really looking at the research and course work available at each institution that I've considered before choosing to apply/enroll there. It is sometimes very easy to be blinded by a very good name or rankings and forget to really think about how well the particular school/program will suit your interests and goals. I left out several highly ranked/famous universities that I first thought that I would apply to because I felt that they didn't coincide with my "needs". With that said, most "top" universities of course can appeal to a very broad group of students and will offer you an excellent education.

Thank you. I am having a really hard time choosing and am trying to decide which of the many topics that I am interested in that I would want to study for 4-5 years. Oxford is certainly a good candidate, but having spent time at UNC and knowing the faculty there I seriously considering going there. It's a good thing there is still some time until April 15

[kash]

Thank you guys. I haven't declined it yet. Now I can't make up my mind which one to go.

I want to go to industry straight after my graduation. Is there a big difference between having a Ph.D. degree and a Master degree? (I meant difference in job opportunities and wage.)

Would this program pay off my $100,000?

Yes there is a big difference between an MA and a PHd, the american statistical association has data on salaries of Phds and Masters graduates in the private industry. Also if you are talking about the financial industry some jobs will defintely be closed off for you since you only have a masters, and a masters in statistics not even masters in financial math. It is the same way in other industries such as biostatistics, you will hit a ceiling that is lower than the ones Phd holders have. I would strongly recommend contacting stanford and see what jobs their masters graduates earn after graduation, because from looking at top masters programs many people get into jobs which dont really have a really high salary and a 100,000 is a lot of money to pay back. Compare that to 0 in debt from Iowa.

[origin415]

If I were you, I would take the PhD without much thought. I seriously doubt that an MS, even with a better name, will out-earn a PhD from a very respectable department. Look here for some statistics about salaries for statisticians: http://www.amstat.or...information.cfm

The median entering salary for someone with an MS is $63k, with a PhD its $82k. The 75th percentile of statisticians with an MS still under earn the median of statisticians with a PhD consistently.

Edited March 27, 2010 by origin415

[Takoyaki7]

No problem. I have tried to be consistent when it comes to really looking at the research and course work available at each institution that I've considered before choosing to apply/enroll there. It is sometimes very easy to be blinded by a very good name or rankings and forget to really think about how well the particular school/program will suit your interests and goals. I left out several highly ranked/famous universities that I first thought that I would apply to because I felt that they didn't coincide with my "needs". With that said, most "top" universities of course can appeal to a very broad group of students and will offer you an excellent education.

Thank you. I am having a really hard time choosing and am trying to decide which of the many topics that I am interested in that I would want to study for 4-5 years. Oxford is certainly a good candidate, but having spent time at UNC and knowing the faculty there I seriously considering going there. It's a good thing there is still some time until April 15

Hey Pierre, congrats on all the amazing admits. Would it be at all possible for you to make a decision before April 15? If you wait until April 15, which ever departments you decide to turn down won't have the opportunity to offer your spot to someone on the waitlist. I've been told that I'm on the reserve list (not really sure what that means...) at UNC so this is a pretty selfish request, but I also have a few admits and plan on turning most of my offers down by April 10. Obviously whatever you choose to do is ultimately up to you.

As for the the original topic, I'd go to Iowa and try it out for a couple of years. If I really really hated the area, I'd leave the program with a masters and go into industry.

[Pierre]

Hey Pierre, congrats on all the amazing admits. Would it be at all possible for you to make a decision before April 15? If you wait until April 15, which ever departments you decide to turn down won't have the opportunity to offer your spot to someone on the waitlist. I've been told that I'm on the reserve list (not really sure what that means...) at UNC so this is a pretty selfish request, but I also have a few admits and plan on turning most of my offers down by April 10. Obviously whatever you choose to do is ultimately up to you.

As for the the original topic, I'd go to Iowa and try it out for a couple of years. If I really really hated the area, I'd leave the program with a masters and go into industry.

Thanks. I'll definitely turn some offers down before April 15 so that others can take my place. Unfortunately this probably won't help you - UNC is one of my absolute top choices and until I get all the info I need regarding my significant others visa status I won't be able to make a decision. If everything turns out well it is a high probability that I'll accept that offer actually. In that case, hopefully we'll be able to meet in CH next fall. Best of luck to you - if I do not get the news I want I'll of course let the dept. know ASAP and hopefully that can help you.

[Takoyaki7]

Thanks. I'll definitely turn some offers down before April 15 so that others can take my place. Unfortunately this probably won't help you - UNC is one of my absolute top choices and until I get all the info I need regarding my significant others visa status I won't be able to make a decision. If everything turns out well it is a high probability that I'll accept that offer actually. In that case, hopefully we'll be able to meet in CH next fall. Best of luck to you - if I do not get the news I want I'll of course let the dept. know ASAP and hopefully that can help you.

Hey Pierre. Sometimes I forget how much more complicated things are for international students. I hope things work out well for you and your partner.

[singer]

I was also accepted by Stanford Masters in Stat program and would like to know if it is difficult to get TAship at Stanford as a masters student? Coming from a large public university (also in the bay area), it is actually not too difficult to find TAship and quite some number of masters students managed to fund their education this way.

Is this true in Stanford as well? Is it easy to get TAship outside of the statistics department, say economics, mathematics, business, or MS&E? Obviously, it is a small private school with much smaller number of undergraduate students and less classes are open per quarter. Nevertheless, I would like to get some insights from people who have done their masters program at stanford.

To contribute to the original post, I think it is definitely possible to live in the Bay area under $60,000 a year, and I don't think it would really cost $100,000 to finish your master degree at Stanford, this of course is assuming if you can finish school in less than 2 years. Having said that, $60,000 is still very expensive!!

Edited April 1, 2010 by singer

[OuterMeasure]

I was also accepted by Stanford Masters in Stat program and would like to know if it is difficult to get TAship at Stanford as a masters student? Coming from a large public university (also in the bay area), it is actually not too difficult to find TAship and quite some number of masters students managed to fund their education this way.

Is this true in Stanford as well? Is it easy to get TAship outside of the statistics department, say economics, mathematics, business, or MS&E? Obviously, it is a small private school with much smaller number of undergraduate students and less classes are open per quarter. Nevertheless, I would like to get some insights from people who have done their masters program at stanford.

To contribute to the original post, I think it is definitely possible to live in the Bay area under $60,000 a year, and I don't think it would really cost $100,000 to finish your master degree at Stanford, this of course is assuming if you can finish school in less than 2 years. Having said that, $60,000 is still very expensive!!

This page:

http://www-stat.stanford.edu/admissions/financing.html

reports that on average one needs $60K to fund the entire M.A. program, which includes living expenses.

[bei]

I was also accepted by Stanford Masters in Stat program and would like to know if it is difficult to get TAship at Stanford as a masters student? Coming from a large public university (also in the bay area), it is actually not too difficult to find TAship and quite some number of masters students managed to fund their education this way.

Is this true in Stanford as well? Is it easy to get TAship outside of the statistics department, say economics, mathematics, business, or MS&E? Obviously, it is a small private school with much smaller number of undergraduate students and less classes are open per quarter. Nevertheless, I would like to get some insights from people who have done their masters program at stanford.

I would also like to know this information. My guess is it won't be easy for us to find TAship at Stanford due to small number of undergrads and highly intensive competition between grads. (In other words, small demand and large supply !)

Thanks for letting me know the approximate living expense!

Edited April 2, 2010 by bei