Foreign Universities

[Dwar]

Hey Guys, 

I am wondering if you have any knowledge about how foreign schools are perceived within both academia and industry in the political science field in the US. 

To clarify, I am not talking about British or Canadian schools, but more foreign regional ones. For example, I am interested in the MENA region and speak Hebrew, so The Hebrew University of Jerusalem would be a pretty logical choice if I need to apply for round two of applications. I am wondering if a degree from there or a comparable foreign school would be viewed positively by hiring committees in academia or industry within the US, or if I would really be restricted to the country of the university.  

Schools like ANU in Australia, or NUS in Singapore, or Sciences Po in France, or HUJI in Israel, or SNU in South Korea. 

Thanks!

Edited January 27, 2019 by Dwar

[BritishPS]

Actually I'm curious too - how are British universities seen in the states?

[pscwpv]

Really depends. I'm an American who went to Oxbridge and have spoken with lots of people there about this very issue as I was tempted to stay on for an MPhil. The general rule is go to a top US program or go to school where you want to work. The pipeline of US PhDs to top universities around the world is strong and a good route if you wanna teach in Europe/Asia/Latin America/MENA, but the pipelines does not exist in reverse. The US is the gold standard for training. The methods training, research experience, etc. are all far superior to almost any European program, and usually, if you want a job in US academia, you need to attend a US university. There are of course a couple instances of people coming from other places, e.g. Ragnhild Nordas at UMich, who went to European universities, but they are very rare. Half of this is snobbery: Americans don't respect European social science for several reasons, none of which are very good. Many American academics erroneously see Europe as where you get a job when you fail to get one in the US. 

Oxford is likely the most well-respected institution outside the US and it almost never places people into R1s. The DPIR there has worked very hard to hire top-quality US academics -- see Ben Ansell, Stathis Kalyvas, Jane Gingrich, Andy Eggers, Todd Hall, and quite a few others -- but even those academics' students don't place well in the US. LSE does even worse. That said, the UK is probably the most well-respected system outside the US. If you want to do political sociology, Utrecht, Amsterdam and the Nuffield crowd at Oxford are exceptional, and there are good academics at the Juan March Institute and the EUI. Sciences Po in Paris is very highly ranked internationally but only go if you want to live and teach there. Their academics write almost entirely about France and its former colonies and do so in French. All of these places could get you jobs in Europe. None should be seen as a good way to get an R1 job in the US. 

[Dwar]

30 minutes ago, pscwpv said:

Really depends. I'm an American who went to Oxbridge and have spoken with lots of people there about this very issue as I was tempted to stay on for an MPhil. The general rule is go to a top US program or go to school where you want to work. The pipeline of US PhDs to top universities around the world is strong and a good route if you wanna teach in Europe/Asia/Latin America/MENA, but the pipelines does not exist in reverse. The US is the gold standard for training. The methods training, research experience, etc. are all far superior to almost any European program, and usually, if you want a job in US academia, you need to attend a US university. There are of course a couple instances of people coming from other places, e.g. Ragnhild Nordas at UMich, who went to European universities, but they are very rare. Half of this is snobbery: Americans don't respect European social science for several reasons, none of which are very good. Many American academics erroneously see Europe as where you get a job when you fail to get one in the US. 

Oxford is likely the most well-respected institution outside the US and it almost never places people into R1s. The DPIR there has worked very hard to hire top-quality US academics -- see Ben Ansell, Stathis Kalyvas, Jane Gingrich, Andy Eggers, Todd Hall, and quite a few others -- but even those academics' students don't place well in the US. LSE does even worse. That said, the UK is probably the most well-respected system outside the US. If you want to do political sociology, Utrecht, Amsterdam and the Nuffield crowd at Oxford are exceptional, and there are good academics at the Juan March Institute and the EUI. Sciences Po in Paris is very highly ranked internationally but only go if you want to live and teach there. Their academics write almost entirely about France and its former colonies and do so in French. All of these places could get you jobs in Europe. None should be seen as a good way to get an R1 job in the US. 

Thanks for the advise! honestly it really confirms what I thought and was afraid of. I think I was mainly looking at foreign schools because this cycle is looking like a dud for me, but I do have a few other non-academic options that I think ill pursue for the next year, re-work my application, and reapply next cycle. 

Thanks again!!!

[pscwpv]

15 minutes ago, Dwar said:

Thanks for the advise! honestly it really confirms what I thought and was afraid of. I think I was mainly looking at foreign schools because this cycle is looking like a dud for me, but I do have a few other non-academic options that I think ill pursue for the next year, re-work my application, and reapply next cycle. 

Thanks again!!!

No worries. To be fair, there are great masters around Europe worth looking at. The Juan March Institute-UC3M masters in social sciences offers good training and has some exceptional academics (Sanchez Cuenca is a big deal guy in terrorism studies). Amsterdam is very good. The Oxford MPhils are of course very good and lots of students at CHYMPS have gotten in with them, particularly if you're working with some of the more famous people at the DPIR. LSE masters are a cash cow for the university but do provide good training, substantive knowledge if you play it right, and the academics there are still very good. 

[Dwar]

4 minutes ago, pscwpv said:

No worries. To be fair, there are great masters around Europe worth looking at. The Juan March Institute-UC3M masters in social sciences offers good training and has some exceptional academics (Sanchez Cuenca is a big deal guy in terrorism studies). Amsterdam is very good. The Oxford MPhils are of course very good and lots of students at CHYMPS have gotten in with them, particularly if you're working with some of the more famous people at the DPIR. LSE masters are a cash cow for the university but do provide good training, substantive knowledge if you play it right, and the academics there are still very good. 

Thanks! 

Honestly I was more interested in the Hebrew U of Jerusalem, so not a European school. I speak some Hebrew so I thought that a degree from there would be a good route. But i've been told by people familiar with the school that while it is a respected school, within the US it won't really help me all that mush with the academic market 

[pscwpv]

19 hours ago, pscwpv said:

Really depends. The general rule is go to a top US program or go to school where you want to work. The pipeline of US PhDs to top universities around the world is strong and a good route if you wanna teach in Europe/Asia/Latin America/MENA, but the pipelines does not exist in reverse. The US is the gold standard for training. The methods training, research experience, etc. are all far superior to almost any European program, and usually, if you want a job in US academia, you need to attend a US university. There are of course a couple instances of people coming from other places, e.g. Ragnhild Nordas at UMich, who went to European universities, but they are very rare. Half of this is snobbery: Americans don't respect European social science for several reasons, none of which are very good. Many American academics erroneously see Europe as where you get a job when you fail to get one in the US. 

Oxford is likely the most well-respected institution outside the US and it almost never places people into R1s. The DPIR there has worked very hard to hire top-quality US academics -- see Ben Ansell, Stathis Kalyvas, Jane Gingrich, Andy Eggers, Todd Hall, and quite a few others -- but even those academics' students don't place well in the US. LSE does even worse. That said, the UK is probably the most well-respected system outside the US. If you want to do political sociology, Utrecht, Amsterdam and the Nuffield crowd at Oxford are exceptional, and there are good academics at the Juan March Institute and the EUI. Sciences Po in Paris is very highly ranked internationally but only go if you want to live and teach there. Their academics write almost entirely about France and its former colonies and do so in French. All of these places could get you jobs in Europe. None should be seen as a good way to get an R1 job in the US.