HDS MTS vs YDS MARc vs Boston College MTS

[toastoyevsky]

I'm in a difficult (if enviable) situation. I was admitted to three programs, all with roughly the same (~75%) scholarship: MTS at HDS and Boston College, and the MARc in philosophical theology at YDS. Since the financials are similar, I think it comes down to the fit of the program with my interests and goals and doctoral placements/program reputation. I assume HDS and YDS are equally strong but don't know about BC's MTS.

I would like to end up in a doctoral program studying some mix of philosophical theology, late antique religions, and Greek fathers -- probably religion/RS, but open to something else if it's a better fit. I have a year of classical Greek and a solid reading knowledge of French. I've heard from folks here how important languages are, so I plan to take more Greek and would also love to take Syriac. 

Here's how I see it:

BC: Pros - I'm Catholic so the atmosphere is a good fit, patristics courses here and at Holy Cross. Cons - strict requirements, less room for electives and languages.

HDS: Pros - flexible program, classes at Harvard grad school and Boston consortium. Cons - I think my religious beliefs would be out of place here, which isn't a dealbreaker, but may get annoying after two years.

YDS: Pros - flexible program; focus on philosophy; Yale religious studies and philosophy courses look to align very well with my interests; lower cost of living. Cons - not sure how well Greek fathers are represented. 

Is there anything I haven't considered? Does anyone have any insight, esp how doctoral admissions will look at these programs? Thanks in advance.

[sacklunch]

That's a tough one. If you can, tell us a bit more about the kind of work you see yourself doing in a doctoral program. You mention patristics/late antiquity, but depending on your particular interests, one's expected preparation can vary quite a bit. You rightly mention your need to focus on languages. This should be a priority, regardless of where you see yourself fitting in late antiquity. One year of Greek isn't enough; you need at least two, but three is what you should aim for. Latin may be something to pick up, even if during the summer as an intensive course. Syriac is not taught regularly at any of those schools, as far as I know, though perhaps maybe at HDS? There are people at all three schools who have studied the language, but I'm not sure if they are/can teach(ing) the language. As an alternative, you could begin to study classical Hebrew or Aramaic (though the latter can often assume training in the former). My suggestion is that, if possible, take any intro/intermediate language class outside of any seminary: e.g. continue your Greek in a department of classics etc. The language courses in most seminaries are quite simply not as rigorous as undergraduate language courses (seminaries usually incorporate modern "theological" components, etc., which are not directly useful for the study of ancient history). Every M* program has rules on what, if any, undergraduate courses you can take, so plan accordingly; this means you may end up taking extra classes (with the language course not counting, but essential for getting into a good doctoral program in this field). If it helps, I studied at BC, took classes at HDS, and am now doing my PhD at an R1 (I work in late antiquity, roughly); feel free to PM me with specific questions.

good luck friend

[toastoyevsky]

Thanks, sent a message!

For anyone who might be reading this thread still, I would like to end up in a doctoral program focusing on the philosophical sources of early Christian theology. I'm very interested in a few people/topics: religious commentators on Plato and Aristotle, including Neoplatonism; Pseudo-Dionysius; the Alexandrian school, especially Philo and Origen; and the Cappadocian fathers. A few other interests that I have less acquaintance with are early Islam, and medieval philosophy and theology, especially Aquinas, Maimonides, and the Islamic philosophical tradition. By no means would I expect one topic or program to cover all of this, but hopefully this gives a fuller picture of my interests. Syriac doesn't fit neatly into these, but I think it would provide a lot of interesting avenues.

[westegg]

I would add that you can also study in the Boston Consortium while a student at BC. (You have it listed as a pro for Harvard but not for BC.)

[11Q13]

BC shouldn't really be in this picture if you have ambitions for doctoral work. It's not the same level as the other two, though you may be right that you might feel out of place at Harvard. I'm a fairly moderate Methodist and I felt out of place there almost ten years ago. I'm sure I'd be branded a Nazi within 5 minutes these days. Yale has a similar climate. From the interests you describe, Harvard sounds like the best fit. FWIW, I also matriculated without a full scholarship, and pleaded to the appropriate parties and received a full scholarship my second year. 

[marXian]

I think either YDS or HDS would be fine. Since you're interested in philosophy/theology, your language prep isn't going to need to be nearly as intense as someone studying philological issues, reception history, etc. of the same period. You will certainly need more Greek as sacklunch says but what other languages depends a lot on what more narrow direction your work goes. It's probably safe to say you will need Latin proficiency at the level of the Toronto Latin 2 exam. Depending on the program, however, you probably wouldn't need to have that before applying to PhD programs (though having it would likely be a huge bump to your application.) Everyone I know working in the medieval period, for example, took that exam sometime between the beginning of the second year and end of the third, doing a lot of independent and directed study as soon as they arrived at their program to prepare for it. They all had some Latin before starting.

The best thing to do once you get to whichever school you decide on is to start talking to the profs who work in your general field of interest to get a sense of the level of language prep they think will be necessary. When it comes to philosophy/theology, there tends to be more variation in opinions on this than in the more philological disciplines where everyone agrees your need a very high degree of reading proficiency. 

[toastoyevsky]

@marXian do you also think BC isn't up to the level of HDS or YDS?

[marXian]

No, it's not--however, it's not a bad school, and it's important not to compare the schools in a vacuum. Your experiences, interests, and background matter a great deal.

I did my MA in theology at Fuller, and although I got into an elite school for my Ph.D and know someone else a year behind me who ended up at Yale, there was primarily downside in attending Fuller with regard to going on to a Ph.D.

BC is certainly not Fuller. I imagine there is some upside to their program and being able to more or less take whatever courses you'd want at Harvard anyway levels those programs a bit. The difference, I think, is in the overall reputation and whatever additional resources you'd be afforded at HDS/YDS v. BC including being able to secure the facetime you'd need with the people you want to write your letters of rec. 

I don't know much about the Yale faculty in your area, but admittance to the MARc in philosophical theology is obviously more competitive than HDS or BC. From my limited knowledge, people coming out of that program at YDS do pretty well during Ph.D app season. Languages are important, yes, but for your area perhaps equally, maybe even more important is narrowing in on a proposed idea for your SOP. You need to be somewhere that also best enables that.

It's a tough choice, but I don't think there's a wrong choice here: keep that in mind. If you feel like you're going to be most comfortable at BC given all the pros/cons, that in some ways should outweigh the reputations of HDS/YDS.

[toastoyevsky]

Thanks, that's a very helpful way of thinking about it. It'll probably come down to visiting all of them and talking to more folks.