Need some advice

[mares]

A little bit of background - I promise it's relevant!:

My boyfriend and I met in college at the library where we both worked. We've been together for just over a year and a half. He graduated in May and I finished up in December. We have been semi long distance since May (he lives a train ride and a subway ride away from me, which takes about two hours one way). In the fall things were okay because I was in school and he could stay with me for three day weekends since he only works part-time and I was a student and had a nice, flexible schedule. Now that I've been working full-time since the beginning of January, our visits are confined to the tiny space of Friday nights (usually not until around 8 pm or so) until Sunday night (around the same time).

Now here's the problem:

He was recently accepted to our (private and expensive) alma mater's Master of Arts in Teaching program for Social Studies. He was offered a 40% scholarship, which is great but not enough. He wrote a letter of appeal for more aid and they send him back a form email stating that they don't review requests like that until the beginning of May (!). The program starts in June and they expect an answer by April 20. It is a year-long, intensive program which would have him in school full-time from June until next May. But in May he'd take the teacher certification test and provided he passes, he'll be qualified to teach in NJ and PA (if he passes their test; requirements are the same) for the 2011-2012 school year.

However, we recently became aware of a Master of Arts in Social Studies Education at a public CUNY school. Because he doesn't have all the core requirements under his belt to be eligible for their program, he'd have to take four undergrad courses and then apply for spring 2011 admission. Provided he is accepted, he will ideally finish in May 2012 from their program and become certified to each in NY State for the 2012-13 school year.

The CUNY program will be significantly cheaper, plus he can live at home. He will have to shoulder about $6-$8k more in debt if he goes to our alma mater's teaching program. The draw to that program was the shorter length and the fact that he was already qualified - he was not a History major (rather, Classical Studies) but had enough history, poli sci, and econ courses to make him eligible.

I was originally supportive of his possibly doing the CUNY program, but now that I've been accepted to and will attend Rutgers for my MLIS for at least three semesters, I see now that I will be pretty busy and will not see much of him. I can't imagine doing this long-distance thing for another two years. I realize a degree doesn't guarantee employment, which is why I would feel incredibly guilty if he got his MAT at the expensive school, went into debt, and couldn't find a job. I would feel like I forced him into it or something, because he wants to do what is best for us in the long term. I know student debt is not the worst kind of debt to have, but I really just want to make sure he doesn't make a decision we'll both regret.

So I guess my question is, is it better to take on a few thousand more in loans in order to finish the degree and be eligible for a job a year earlier, or would it be better for him to go the cheaper, longer route? Has anyone else been in a similar situation? I should be happy that we both have the opportunity to go to grad school, but instead I feel depressed. Thank you for any advice or support you can share.

[pea-jay]

Some second hand experience here. My wife did the cheaper, slower method for her certifications. It took 2 years but it worked real well given my lower wages at the time and her pregnancy and first year of having a newborn. She wound up getting 5K in grants and 12K in loans which helped fund the living and commuting expenses entailed from a 90 and 180 mile round trip commutes between two CSU campuses. Repayment terms have the loan at 110/month, very manageable.

Another factor to consider is timing. Does he really want to enter the workforce next year when we will still face budgetary hangovers? Maybe two years would be better, in the meantime enjoy the lower cost and pressure. That said, a 6-8K differential isnt a lot of money.

Hopefully that helps some.

[rogue]

New Brunswick and NYC are not that far apart. Yeah, it's nice to live in the same city, but that distance barely even qualifies as long distance. You can make it work.

[samjones]

how far away is the alma mater school from rutgers? a trip from NYC to new brunswick is about 2hours... is the alma mater school that much closer that $6-8 thousand dollars more debt will make him going to the alma mater school worth it?

if i were him (in this same situation, of course), i'd go with the cheaper school. it just makes more sense. you'll both have more money (or at least less money owed) for your futures if he just went with the cheaper school. and i think the poster above makes a good point- waiting out the economy by being in a longer program might also be for the best.

[mares]

New Brunswick and NYC are not that far apart. Yeah, it's nice to live in the same city, but that distance barely even qualifies as long distance. You can make it work.

How callous. We have been "making it work" for almost a year now. It's a two hour train ride to his house from mine. Actually that's not even to his house; that's to the Bronx and then he has to pick me up and drive another 10-15 minutes. And I'm not even going to be living in New Brunswick; I'll be living at home, which is 25 minutes away. "Barely qualifies as long distance"? Everyone has a different experience. I don't handle long distance as well as other people.

Also, samjones (sorry don't know how to reply to two posts in the same post, lol):

Yeah, I've done some thinking and you and pea jay are right. The train ride is not that much closer (our undergrad is in Madison, NJ) and if I started school in the fall I'd still be in until December 2011, and if he goes the cheaper option he'll only be in until May 2012. And with the economy so crappy and everything there's no guarantee he'll even get a job in a school next September.

Thanks for your input. It is definitely reassuring. I think I have been focusing too much on the short-term and not enough on the long-term ramifications of his decision.

[rogue]

It wasn't meant to be callous; it was meant to be encouraging. As someone who's looking at a Philly-NYC relationship for potentially the next four to five years, assuming we stay together, I'd rather be in your shoes, distance-wise.

Edited to add: I also commuted about that amount of time every day for work for over four years. So yeah, people's experiences are different, but my point was that if you care about this guy -- which you really seem to -- it's doable. Chin up.

Edited April 1, 2010 by rogue

[eucalyptus]

I think, just speaking money-wise, that the shorter program is probably the better idea. It's true that he might not get a job right away coming out of that program, but he also might not get a job right away coming out of the longer program. Assuming his short- and long-term job prospects are about the same with a degree from either program, I think the shorter program makes more sense because he'll be earning a real salary one year sooner, which means he can start paying down debt / stop taking out loans a year earlier as well. His teacher's salary that extra year (even working part-time or supplying) will more than make up for the $6-8k, which really isn't that much money in the grand scheme of things.

[greghage]

IMO, the private school would be better for him because he could enter a job market a year earlier than CUNY. Plus, taking four undergrad courses sounds not fun, especially this is something that he does't need to do at the private school. As for the debt, if the difference between the private school and CUNY is less than $10K, I wouldn't think that it's too much, especially because he could start making money earlier should he go to the private school. Good luck!!

[mares]

It wasn't meant to be callous; it was meant to be encouraging. As someone who's looking at a Philly-NYC relationship for potentially the next four to five years, assuming we stay together, I'd rather be in your shoes, distance-wise.

Edited to add: I also commuted about that amount of time every day for work for over four years. So yeah, people's experiences are different, but my point was that if you care about this guy -- which you really seem to -- it's doable. Chin up.

Okay, sorry for getting all defensive then. It's easy to take things differently than they were intended on the internet. lol. I do care about him, a lot, and I have struggled with the distance part of our relationship. I want to be able to see him every day, not just a few weekends a month.

eucalyptus, I can see what you're saying in regards to the shorter program. Those were exactly my thoughts about why the shorter program would be better. But, the budget proposed by the new governor of NJ is not very good for teachers since so much state funding for education is slashed from next year's fiscal year budget. So that means more competition for fewer jobs, and competition with teachers who already have experience under their belts. NY isn't much better off, either, but the one of the pros of the longer program, like others said, is that he'll be coming out in 2012 and maybe state budgets will not be hurting so badly in two years.

Another advantage of the longer program is that he can keep his part-time library assistant job and live at home for free, whereas with the shorter program he would not be able to work as many hours at the library (which I'm sure will hire him since he was a very good worker there as an undergrad), he would make less money there per hour, and he'd have to pay for housing. Ahh, so much to think about! Thanks again everyone for your insight. It has given me a lot of food for thought.

[fadeindreams]

(sorry don't know how to reply to two posts in the same post, lol):

You can quote multiple posts by hitting the "MultiQuote" button in the bottom right hand corner. Light up multiple buttons then hit the standard blue "Add Reply" button. All posts you have tagged will be inserted into your reply. Neat, huh?

As for your predicament, $6-8k is negligible, really. Actually, considering opportunity cost and all, I would think the program that takes less time and certifies him earlier is "worth" quite a deal more. That said, it sounds like your relationship wouldn't take it.

Tell him the truth. Don't use insignificant budgetary concerns to try to sway him. Say that you couldn't take the distance. The two of you might have different values for your relationship and that's worth knowing too. If y'all break up, then maybe it wasn't going to work in the long run anyway.

Edited April 1, 2010 by fadeindreams

[TMP]

The other question seems to be missing here is.... which state would he prefer to teach in to begin with?

[Phyl]

The other question seems to be missing here is.... which state would he prefer to teach in to begin with?

This.

Where he wants to teach and where the two of you want to live after school should be given a lot of weight in your decision. It's what is going to effect your lives and relationship the longest.

I don't know what type of library you would like to work in but the NJ public libraries have some proposed cuts as well. One of big things I've read about finding a library job is that it's not too bad if you are willing to be geographically mobile, so think about you trying to find a job after school too.

[liszt85]

How callous. We have been "making it work" for almost a year now. It's a two hour train ride to his house from mine. Actually that's not even to his house; that's to the Bronx and then he has to pick me up and drive another 10-15 minutes. And I'm not even going to be living in New Brunswick; I'll be living at home, which is 25 minutes away. "Barely qualifies as long distance"? Everyone has a different experience. I don't handle long distance as well as other people.

I did a 3 year long distance (met thrice a year, 4-5 days at a time) thing with my girl and we're happily married now. You may not be good at it but there are people out there who make it work without having to sacrifice much (other than some "cuddle" time). So your calling rogue callous, is by your own definition wrong. Rogue might be a person who is fine with making things work this way. There's nothing callous about trying to suggest to a person who is trying to get a higher degree to prioritize stuff and make some small sacrifices to both get your degree as well as save your relationship.

[mares]

This.

Where he wants to teach and where the two of you want to live after school should be given a lot of weight in your decision. It's what is going to effect your lives and relationship the longest.

I don't know what type of library you would like to work in but the NJ public libraries have some proposed cuts as well. One of big things I've read about finding a library job is that it's not too bad if you are willing to be geographically mobile, so think about you trying to find a job after school too.

I guess where we live will really be determined by the job market. With a Master's degree I'm sure it won't be hard for him to get licensed in multiple states. A lot of becoming licensed is a matter of taking and passing the Praxis exam as well as having the necessary coursework in the subject area. With a degree in NY or NJ, I'm sure he can easily become licensed in NY, NJ, PA, or CT, which are all states we have considered.

And yes, I am aware of NJ's proposed budget cuts to libraries. It will probably be exceedingly difficult for us to have careers in NJ given our chosen fields, which is why I'm worried about him attending the private program vs. the public one. For me, in terms of cost, Rutgers just makes the most sense because I already have residency in NJ so I'm pretty well stuck here until I get my degree. The picture is grim on all sides and I just want him to make the right choice.