Confused about US application process

[springxsummer]

I'm a Canadian applicant considering applying to US counselling programs and I'm pretty confused about the process. Any clarification would be super appreciated!

My eventual goal is to be a registered psychologist. I noticed that you can go straight into PhD programs after undergrad.  Is acceptance realistic without an undergrad thesis? It seems like if you lack substantial research experience, it's good to take a master's first before applying to a PhD program. Do all counselling master's programs with a thesis component set you up to apply to doctoral programs? How do you tell?

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

[Troyyy]

It seems like you pretty much already have the answers. You're right that you can get into PhD programs straight from undergrad, but what makes you stand out as a competitive applicant is the amount of research experience that you have. If your undergrad thesis is all that you have, then you may want to consider applying for master's programs first to get more research experience to be more competitive. 

Since I'm going straight to a PhD program from undergrad, I can't exactly tell you if master's thesis really set you up for doctoral programs, but I'm pretty sure that they do. I think that you may be better suited getting the master's first before getting your PhD, but it wouldn't hurt to apply for a couple PhD programs to see what they say. 

[PsyDuck90]

An MA in counseling won't really prepare you for clinical psych or counseling psych PhD programs. Counseling is a separate field. If you are really set on the PhD, you want to look for research focused psychology MA programs. An MA thesis is a start, but PhD faculty expect more than that from applicants with a master's degree. Another option is to just take a year to work in a research lab. There are paid research coordinator jobs out there. Rather than paying for an MA, you can get paid to get your research experience. 

[springxsummer]

7 hours ago, PsyDGrad90 said:

An MA in counseling won't really prepare you for clinical psych or counseling psych PhD programs. Counseling is a separate field. If you are really set on the PhD, you want to look for research focused psychology MA programs. 

That's good to know that a master's of counselling wouldn't prepare you for a counselling PhD...  Would a master's in clinical psychology at all prepare you for a clinical or counselling PhD? or is it still better to do an experimental psychology master's? 

 

 

[PsyDuck90]

Are you talking about a counseling doctorate or a counseling psych doctorate? Counseling and counseling psych are 2 separate fields. Counseling psych is what would lead you to the title of psychologist, versus a licensure for mental health counseling is a masters level licensure and the EdD in counseling will not allow you to become a licensed psychologist. Counseling psych, while somewhat different in it's overall philosophy, gives the same licensure as a clinical psych degree. 

Also, an MA in clinical psych is still an experimental psych degree. There is no masters level licensure for psychology (yet). 

Edited May 27, 2019 by PsyDGrad90
Answer to 2nd question

[springxsummer]

8 hours ago, Troyyy said:

Since I'm going straight to a PhD program from undergrad, I can't exactly tell you if master's thesis really set you up for doctoral programs, but I'm pretty sure that they do. I think that you may be better suited getting the master's first before getting your PhD, but it wouldn't hurt to apply for a couple PhD programs to see what they say. 

If you don't mind me asking, what did you have for research experience coming out of undergrad?

I've done 3 directed study courses, volunteer in a lab, and have 1 poster presentation,  but I do not have an honours thesis or any publications. I also don't have experience with data analysis (though I should gain some in the next couple months). I'm assuming I wouldn't be competitive for PhD programs (?)

[springxsummer]

6 minutes ago, PsyDGrad90 said:

Are you talking about a counseling doctorate or a counseling psych doctorate? Counseling and counseling psych are 2 separate fields. Counseling psych is what would lead you to the title of psychologist, versus a licensure for mental health counseling is a masters level licensure and the EdD in counseling will not allow you to become a licensed psychologist. Counseling psych, while somewhat different in it's overall philosophy, gives the same licensure as a clinical psych degree. 

Also, an MA in clinical psych is still an experimental psych degree. There is no masters level licensure for psychology (yet). 

I want to be a registered psychologist. Thanks for clarifying that, I'll make sure I'm aiming at counselling psych then!  

 

In terms of clinical psyc, is there any advantage in doing a PhD over a PsyD employment wise? There aren't many PsyD programs in Canada, but my understanding is that they're less research-based and more practice-focused. Is that the same for the US?

Edited May 27, 2019 by springxsummer

[Troyyy]

1 hour ago, springxsummer said:

If you don't mind me asking, what did you have for research experience coming out of undergrad?

I've done 3 directed study courses, volunteer in a lab, and have 1 poster presentation,  but I do not have an honours thesis or any publications. I also don't have experience with data analysis (though I should gain some in the next couple months). I'm assuming I wouldn't be competitive for PhD programs (?)

 

Mmm, well I've participated in a total of four research projects and presented them at various conferences. Out of those four, two of the research projects received second place, and a third received first place. I was a lead research assistant and had plenty of experience with SPSS and data management (coding, analyzing, interpretation, etc.) and of course presenting. Two of the research projects are currently in the manuscript phase for publication. Outside of research though, I've been an undergraduate teaching assistant for my school's general psychology course for 1.5 academic years (this would be helpful since many PhDs go into academia, which is what I intend to do). 

So, I didn't have any publications by the time of application submission, but my experience in research was pretty high, and it seems like you have some research experience too. You should definitely take advantage of the data analysis experience that you'll be taking up shortly. Those skills will be pretty helpful. 

If you have that with a high GPA and GRE score, then I think you may have a chance. Just do the best that you can to incorporate any experiences that may be deemed necessary for the application/program. Let the universe take it from there!

 

1 hour ago, springxsummer said:

In terms of clinical psyc, is there any advantage in doing a PhD over a PsyD employment wise? There aren't many PsyD programs in Canada, but my understanding is that they're less research-based and more practice-focused. Is that the same for the US?

When it comes to PhD and PsyD, you are definitely right that PsyDs are more practice-based, while PhDs are more research-based. However, most PsyD programs are not fully funded like many PhDs are, so you often would have to come out of pocket to pay for it compared to PhDs.

[PsyDuck90]

9 hours ago, springxsummer said:

In terms of clinical psyc, is there any advantage in doing a PhD over a PsyD employment wise? There aren't many PsyD programs in Canada, but my understanding is that they're less research-based and more practice-focused. Is that the same for the US?

As Troyyy stated, most PsyDs are not fully funded. The general idea is that PsyDs are more clinically oriented and PhDs are more research-focused, but that line has blurred a bit. PhDs fall on a spectrum of programs that are very research focused to ones that are more clinically balanced. With PsyDs, there is less funding, but some programs do provide it. With the closure of Argosy, one needs to be cautious in the type of PsyD program they choose. University-based programs like Rutgers and Baylor have a better reputation. You also will still do plenty of research. I am at a university-based PsyD and I spent a min of 10 hours a week in lab during the semester, not including any lab-related writing done from home.

Do your research. Look for faculty that have research interests that match yours. Ultimately, research fit matters more than publication count and GRE scores. 

[springxsummer]

Great, thank you for the replies. This really helped clear things up!