Is an MFA Degree Really Worth The Debt?

[thankseverybody]

Hi everyone,

I was just accepted to Calart's 3-year program in Graphic Design and they offered me a scholarship of about $15K/year.

This still means that, upon graduation, I will have accumulated about $100K in debt.

I realize that we're all obviously biased toward MFA degrees, otherwise we wouldn't be here. But I was just wondering, how are all of you planning to pay for it? Is everyone just hoping for big scholarships? Is my scholarship considered "big" or "generous"?

Any help would be very much appreciated!!!

[tink23]

Hi everyone,

I was just accepted to Calart's 3-year program in Graphic Design and they offered me a scholarship of about $15K/year.

This still means that, upon graduation, I will have accumulated about $100K in debt.

I realize that we're all obviously biased toward MFA degrees, otherwise we wouldn't be here. But I was just wondering, how are all of you planning to pay for it? Is everyone just hoping for big scholarships? Is my scholarship considered "big" or "generous"?

Any help would be very much appreciated!!!

I am warming up to the idea of debt, but would not take that much out- 100k. Its a very personal investment. Good luck!!

[atrawickb]

Hi everyone,

I was just accepted to Calart's 3-year program in Graphic Design and they offered me a scholarship of about $15K/year.

This still means that, upon graduation, I will have accumulated about $100K in debt.

I realize that we're all obviously biased toward MFA degrees, otherwise we wouldn't be here. But I was just wondering, how are all of you planning to pay for it? Is everyone just hoping for big scholarships? Is my scholarship considered "big" or "generous"?

Any help would be very much appreciated!!!

well 100k is a lot.

on the other hand, you'd be coming out on the back end with a degree from a top program, and ready to launch (or continue) your career in the commercial art world where your job opportunities are much more likely to make a lot of money (as a graphic designer) than, say, someone coming out of calarts with an mfa in performance art, or video--areas in which it is very difficult to make money beyond garnering a teaching post somewhere.

[littlenova]

Someone else posted this same question...about Claremont.

I'll be attending MICA and I calculate that I'll be about 15k in debt for a 3 year program. I received fellowships, scholarships and have 15k in savings for graduate school. It might even be less if my TA positions are calculated into that equation or if I work part time. (I was offered one for Photo...) I think some debt is okay, because education is an investment.

But...

I think that is a hell of alot of debt. Calarts is amazing but, anything over 50k would seem foolish in this economy. I don't even think I'd spend that on Yale. Can you work part-time? Are there opportunities down the road for more funding? What are your plans for the future? Do you have other choices?

Good luck...Tink is right...it's such a personal decision.

Edited April 2, 2010 by littlenova

[grad_wannabe]

have you checked out calarts fellowship and scholarship pages? they list outside help you can apply for:

http://calarts.edu/studentlife/careerresources/fellowshipsandgrants

http://calarts.edu/financialaid/outsidescholarships

100K is a LOT of debt. I go by the rule of thumb (which I've written about elsewhere on the board) that I've heard from loan and financial counselors: don't take out more than you think you'll make your first year out of school. As written above, your situation is slightly better because as a designer, you're looking at making a lot more money than a painter.

Here are the number generated by an online debt calculator (i did the same thing for the painter asking about Claremont):

Loan balance: $100,000

Interest rate: 6.8%

Term: 20 years

Monthly Payment: $763.34

Total interest paid: $83,201.36

Only you can decide if you can handle shelling out 800 bucks a month for two decades.

[kewpies]

@ thankseverybody

honestly, i have been thinking non-stop about this for the past week, and i am close to answering no to this question.

i was offered a free ride, TAship + stipend for supplies at UCSD.

i was also accepted at CalArts and Columbia. first off the news was just immensely flattering and exciting. i would love to go to either of those schools, and i was hoping that i would get some aid. in the end, i was offered 15K a year from CalArts, and 18K a year from Columbia. throw in living expenses, and i'd be looking at 100,000K of debt, too.

those that have told me to take the debt argue that

(1) could you live w/the regret of not choosing your ''dream school''?

(2) x school would give me a wealth of connections and could get me ''set up'' in some kind of art scene (the folks at CalArts try not to talk about this stuff in my experience, but it has been pretty strongly suggested at Columbia)

(3) its just a part of graduate school (i have been told this most often)

alternatively, i was talking to an artist who is able to live off her work, and she told me: what could it do to your practice if you were given $100,000? so that's what i've been thinking about lately.

i think another thing that makes this hard is that you can't have all the possible information before you make your decision (will that big name really help you financially in the long run?, etc)

[chihuahuamomma]

@ thankseverybody

honestly, i have been thinking non-stop about this for the past week, and i am close to answering no to this question.

i was offered a free ride, TAship + stipend for supplies at UCSD.

i was also accepted at CalArts and Columbia. first off the news was just immensely flattering and exciting. i would love to go to either of those schools, and i was hoping that i would get some aid. in the end, i was offered 15K a year from CalArts, and 18K a year from Columbia. throw in living expenses, and i'd be looking at 100,000K of debt, too.

those that have told me to take the debt argue that

(1) could you live w/the regret of not choosing your ''dream school''?

(2) x school would give me a wealth of connections and could get me ''set up'' in some kind of art scene (the folks at CalArts try not to talk about this stuff in my experience, but it has been pretty strongly suggested at Columbia)

(3) its just a part of graduate school (i have been told this most often)

alternatively, i was talking to an artist who is able to live off her work, and she told me: what could it do to your practice if you were given $100,000? so that's what i've been thinking about lately.

i think another thing that makes this hard is that you can't have all the possible information before you make your decision (will that big name really help you financially in the long run?, etc)

[thankseverybody]

thanks so much for your helpful reply, kewpies. I completely agree with everything you've laid out...what's so WEIRD is I've contacted so many recent alum of Calarts' program (who didn't receive scholarships), and they said that finding work and paying off their loans hasn't been a problem. They're even saying that Calarts is offering me way more money than they ever got. I'm so confused!!

@ thankseverybody

honestly, i have been thinking non-stop about this for the past week, and i am close to answering no to this question.

i was offered a free ride, TAship + stipend for supplies at UCSD.

i was also accepted at CalArts and Columbia. first off the news was just immensely flattering and exciting. i would love to go to either of those schools, and i was hoping that i would get some aid. in the end, i was offered 15K a year from CalArts, and 18K a year from Columbia. throw in living expenses, and i'd be looking at 100,000K of debt, too.

those that have told me to take the debt argue that

(1) could you live w/the regret of not choosing your ''dream school''?

(2) x school would give me a wealth of connections and could get me ''set up'' in some kind of art scene (the folks at CalArts try not to talk about this stuff in my experience, but it has been pretty strongly suggested at Columbia)

(3) its just a part of graduate school (i have been told this most often)

alternatively, i was talking to an artist who is able to live off her work, and she told me: what could it do to your practice if you were given $100,000? so that's what i've been thinking about lately.

i think another thing that makes this hard is that you can't have all the possible information before you make your decision (will that big name really help you financially in the long run?, etc)

[brianmc]

Ok. I'm going to chime in because I've wanted to get this off of my chest for a long time. I received my BFA in 1999 and at that time there was no such thing as a graphic design MFA. As far as I was aware the people who taught graphic design in the two different art colleges that I attended had only BFAs and were working in the field as well as teaching. I don't know if you need an MFA to teach graphic design now. I'm sure you can be grandfathered in if you've been teaching before the GD MFA was invented, but I'm guessing you need one to get your first position if you haven't already been teaching somewhere. That is why I'm kind of in a hurry to get my MFA and get some teaching experience, because word is on the horizon of a studio art PhD, as if anyone can afford that or as if it is even necessary. I've been taking some digital imaging courses at a local community college over the past year and I know the teachers there have gotten their MFAs after teaching there for a couple of years and continued to teach while taking a part-time MFA program. I know some other courses are taught by "staff" who have only an associates degree from that community college. I really don't think a GD MFA will help advance your career as a designer the way it can open doors for someone in the fine arts. I really think your portfolio is everything in that field. I think a high school kid who has the skills could get hired if he/she could show a portfolio proving they are good. I am not a designer and have not researched any of this. I'm sure you know a lot more about it than me. But I wouldn't go that far in debt. I'm guessing you want to teach. But I think you can probably make more money working as a designer. What I meant to say in sentence after sentence of rambling is that I was very disappointed a few years ago when I started thinking about getting an MFA and I went online to discover that many schools were adding GD MFAs. It made me really feel like education is just a rip-off, purely a business. A majority of your time is spent working independently on your own work in a studio art MFA, but that isn't really the nature of design. There is always some sort of outside influence or idea that needs to be communicated in design. I guess I don't understand what you actually spend your time doing in a GD MFA program. It seems to me that you could be getting paid to do whatever it is that they are going to be having you pay them for. That's just my humble opinion. If you are really passionate about teaching and need the credential, then erase erase erase.

[brianmc]

I just thought of an analogy that might help here. I have been a professional bartender for 11 years. Shorty after getting my BFA in painting and not being able to find a job I took a two week bartending course that enabled me to get a job doing catering gigs through a temp agency for $8/hr. The first night out on a temp gig, the manager of this private club offered to bring me on full-time for more money than the temp agency because I had done a better job than his full-time staff. That manager tended to be a bit of a job hopper, but he gave me three of my first four bartending jobs. Today there is no mention of bartending school on my resume. Everyone in the business laughs when someone comes in to apply for a job who just got out of bartending school as I'm sure all of the cool places did that didn't hire me when I was first blanketing the city with applications 11 years ago. I worked a lot of crappy jobs the first year and a half. There have been numerous occasions where some random crap I learned in bartending school has helped and I do feel strongly that untrained bartenders lack discipline, but I would never admit that I went to bartending school. I tell anyone who is impressed with all the random crap I know that I learned everything at this corporate place I used to work where we had to pour test to get a shift. Most of the bartenders I have worked with over the past 11 years started out as waiters or busboys and worked their way up through the ranks, while getting paid, instead of paying as I did and still having to work my way up. I took more of a lateral course where I was bartending at a crappy bar for what the busboy was making at a good bar. We all ended up at the same place. I am a way better bartender than most of my co-workers, but at the end of the night, we all walk out with the same amount of money.

[littlenova]

@Biranmc:

In the US anyway, most MFA programs are an MA and MFA in one. Many programs are 3 years long. While there may be discussion about a PhD in the near future, national authorities in art education have eluded to it being less about creating more PhD programs and more about tightening up the existing MFA curriculum to compete globally with other degrees.

*****

It's interesting that you talk about a Graphic Design MFA. I have been a designer by trade for the last 10 years and have done my own personal photography work on the side. I have an undergrad in both Design (to eat) and Photography (my true passion). I have worked for agencies for a long time and even some big companies. It is true that your portfolio speaks louder than a terminal degree when trying to find great work. You can have an AMAZING career as a designer without an MFA. You can make great, money, too...

But, I think an MFA is important to consider if you want to become a leader in your field. Look at Stephen Sagmeister, Jenny Holtzer, etc. I believe to ever get to that stage now, most would need the conceptual track of study a terminal degree provides. To work in design education (curatorial, corporate or academic capacities) or to be able to oversee a range of talent on a large scale project, the MFA represents a grasp of theoretical concerns and history that would grant a level of credibility and "rank" that work experience may not. I think it's this kind of education that will determine the future of thoughtful design. [I don't think anyone who really wants a career in design will aspire to work as an adjunct design instructor at a community college or work someplace a highschooler would be hired. Everywhere I have ever worked, you needed a BFA. lol.)

I really entertained going back for a Design MFA at one time. But, at the end of the day, it really is a client-oriented business most of the time and this is the part I didn't enjoy. I also would not go into 100k of debt as I have told others on this board.

But, I will say, if this is your passion...Of ANY of these disciplines/ degrees, a little debt might not be so bad, because you will most definitely make the money back dollar for dollar if you are good. I just left a job as a middle level designer for a crunchy bank , but was still making almost 60k a year plus bonuses and insane benefits. My friends who work with larger agencies like Sapient and Y & R in NYC are making six figures.

Edited April 3, 2010 by littlenova

[kewpies]

@ thankseverybody

ha! i had the same experience!! i talked to someone and she sounded so chipper and positive like debt wasn't a burden at all. i could only think of 2 explanations

1) temperment -- i felt like in general the mood at calarts was pretty open/optimistic

2) family ties -- i have been asked twice if i could get family support/assistance. i told them i wasn't really set up that way. i mean my parents would support me if i was ever in trouble (spare room to crash, give me rides, etc), but w/100,000? no way. during the interview day, i was constantly asking current students about the debt. of those, one told me that their dad was paying, another was paying w/an inheritance from grandparents. i told them i really respected their honesty because really, where is this money coming from? i just couldn't believe that everyone was in that much debt

even all that being said, i was still looking over Columbia's website/program last night, lol. i felt almost like i was window shopping

[stofo]

@thanksverybody

I think you should take out the loans. You are getting a degree in graphic design, where you can actually get a job and pay back loans. The government just passed laws about eliminating the middle man for federal loans. There is also a program about income based loan repayment. Since all loans are now federal loans, yes your loans are eligible for this program. You pay 15% of your income for 25 years and then your loan is forgiven. It doesn't matter if you make $10,000 a year or $100,000 a year. It doesn't matter if your wife works and has dual income or whatever. This is how I will pay back $117,000 of loans at Claremont. So far, the only response I know of for MFAs is to get into a program that is mostly funded. But, there has to be a lot of MFA people out there with out a lot of funding, I havnt hear their opinions on the issue yet.

[turnip]

@thanksverybody

I think you should take out the loans. You are getting a degree in graphic design, where you can actually get a job and pay back loans. The government just passed laws about eliminating the middle man for federal loans. There is also a program about income based loan repayment. Since all loans are now federal loans, yes your loans are eligible for this program. You pay 15% of your income for 25 years and then your loan is forgiven. It doesn't matter if you make $10,000 a year or $100,000 a year. It doesn't matter if your wife works and has dual income or whatever. This is how I will pay back $117,000 of loans at Claremont. So far, the only response I know of for MFAs is to get into a program that is mostly funded. But, there has to be a lot of MFA people out there with out a lot of funding, I havnt hear their opinions on the issue yet.

While I really admire littlenova's stance, I think of debt in pretty abstract terms and agree with stofo.

Goodluck with whatever you decide.

[turnip]

@thanksverybody

I think you should take out the loans. You are getting a degree in graphic design, where you can actually get a job and pay back loans. The government just passed laws about eliminating the middle man for federal loans. There is also a program about income based loan repayment. Since all loans are now federal loans, yes your loans are eligible for this program. You pay 15% of your income for 25 years and then your loan is forgiven. It doesn't matter if you make $10,000 a year or $100,000 a year. It doesn't matter if your wife works and has dual income or whatever. This is how I will pay back $117,000 of loans at Claremont. So far, the only response I know of for MFAs is to get into a program that is mostly funded. But, there has to be a lot of MFA people out there with out a lot of funding, I havnt hear their opinions on the issue yet.

While I really admire littlenova's stance, I think of debt in pretty abstract terms and agree with stofo.

Goodluck with whatever you decide.

[commandzhee]

Here's another way to look at this...

I've been a print designer for a book publisher for 5 years now. The book publishing industry is going downhill pretty quickly, so I want a GD MFA to take the skills I currently have and flex them into new directions. That's the thing about GD MFA, most programs will allow you to solve problems in any media you choose. So I'm planning to learn new technologies, experiement and find the direction that I want to go in this expanding profession.

I'm planning on doing a lot of video/motion experimentation and designing for the web/mobile. When I get out of grad school, I expect to be able to do motion graphics and web design professionally. That's something I wouldn't be able to do with my print design job alone.

[littlenova]

I think you should take out the loans. You are getting a degree in graphic design, where you can actually get a job and pay back loans. The government just passed laws about eliminating the middle man for federal loans. There is also a program about income based loan repayment. Since all loans are now federal loans, yes your loans are eligible for this program. You pay 15% of your income for 25 years and then your loan is forgiven. It doesn't matter if you make $10,000 a year or $100,000 a year. It doesn't matter if your wife works and has dual income or whatever. This is how I will pay back $117,000 of loans at Claremont. So far, the only response I know of for MFAs is to get into a program that is mostly funded. But, there has to be a lot of MFA people out there with out a lot of funding, I havnt hear their opinions on the issue yet.

Please note: Obama's new bill does not go into effect until 2014. Direct lending will be nationwide by this date, so if you are applying for loans this Fall...make sure they qualify. (Most schools have already adopted this.) The new guidelines for IBR are for loans originating after this date, though. http://www.usnews.co...dent-loans.html Therefore Stofo is right...Under the current IBR guidelines, the borrower would assume payments based on 15% of their income. And it would not be forgiven for 25 years. The new guidelines for loans taken out after 2014 would only require 10% of one's income and 20 years of repayment.

It doesn't matter if you make $10,000 a year or $100,000 a year. It doesn't matter if your wife works and has dual income or whatever. This is how I will pay back $117,000 of loans at Claremont.

This is not true.The IBR program has earning limits based on your debt to income ratio, so if you earn more you may be ineligible for lower payments. An earned income is determined by how you file taxes...If it is a joint income, IBR will base repayment on that income. But, this could also be an advantage, because if you live at the poverty level for 25 years, you may not have to pay a dime! Please read about this and use the calculator to determine your individual payment: http://www.ibrinfo.org/what.vp.html

I am not saying to let go of a dream, I am just saying that you should be MINDFUL when borrowing and realize it's not like any other debt. You can't file for bankruptcy like a foreclosure or a car repo. Student loans never go away. Like ever. They are important and useful, but just...know that it will determine your future.

Edited April 4, 2010 by littlenova

[littlenova]

...unless you leave the country! (I just read an article about that...It totally works.)

[brianmc]

@littlenova

Good point. Again I failed to really think that through. An MFA would be great experience for someone aspiring to be a senior level designer or art director and such. Just the interaction and collaboration they would have with all of the other high level designers who were attracted to the program would ready them to lead a team. I definitely feel this is the type of program where students SHOULD take a few years off after undergrad to work and figure out what they want to focus on at the grad level, and to make certain that the field is something they want to pursue.

And I agree with you on price. 100k still scares the hell out of me...and it would no matter what I was studying. It's not a house. You can't sell it to someone else if you get tired of paying for it.