Intimidating Advisor

[bvang]

So... I somehow managed to get into my #1 choice with a very generous funding package. It was sort of out of pure luck that this professor decided to fund me... and I'm totally grateful for it. But the problem is...

He's really intense and intimidating. Even just spending an hour with him, I felt like he was totally grilling me and putting me on the spot already. Maybe this is normal for all advisors to do this?? I can tell that he's going to milk me for everything he can get out of me (other students of his have agreed that he definitely works a lot so he expects the same from his students - but at the same time they didnt have anything negative to say about him per se). I'm pretty timid... so I'm sort of afraid that I'm signing up for something I won't be able to handle. My gut is really nervous about going there because I'll be totally overworked -- and it seems there are exceedingly high expectations of me that I'm afraid I won't meet -- but are all these feelings normal???

Sigh. Just confused that I'm not more excited when this was my #1 choice all along. Does everyone feel this nervous about their advisors??

=\

[bvang]

Oh and i forgot to mention I havent officially accepted the offer yet -- so technically I have my 2nd choice school to fall back on too....

Edited April 8, 2010 by pjnut

[socialpsychg]

I would start a dialogue with his current students to see what the work expectations are like exactly, etc. Ask how they handle it, what happens when they don't live up to his expectations, etc.

Edited April 8, 2010 by socialpsychg

[aginath]

When I first visited my program, I was midway through a meeting with two faculty members when they suddenly decided I needed to meet another. That other faculty member would later become my advisor, but more importantly is the department head. I was a scared little church mouse walking down the hallway. Even after having met him, I was still intimidated going into the Fall semester. I did take some time in between my first meeting and my acceptance to try and figure out why he intimidated me. Was it his reputation as a researcher? Was it his position as department head? Was it a fear of expectations upon me as one of his students? In the end, I could only conclude that it was a combination of factors, but I chose to move forward based on the feedback from other students. He is very well loved and even now I'm quick to admit that behind his back, we call him Papa Bear. I made the right choice to study with him.

So, list out what it is that intimidates you. Consider that against the feedback from other students. Maybe even talk to a student who has worked with this faculty member. In the end, only you can decide.

[fuzzylogician]

I agree with the other posters, you need to figure out exactly why this professor is intimidating you. I'd also suggest that you try and figure out what kind of personalities his current students have; if the people who get along with this advisor are all pushy and strong minded, that might not be a good fit for you if you're too timid. If quieter students do find that he is a good advisor, then you could reconsider what it was that made your gut uneasy.

I don't think it's too uncommon for a visit to cause people to change their minds about a school. I can tell you that before I visited schools last year I had two top choices, but after visiting and meeting with professors and current grads it was clear to me that one of those school would be a much better fit than the other. I'm sure there are stories out there of people who completely changed their minds about where they'd rather go before and after meeting potential advisors. The human factor is a major part of the decision, and I think it's important that you listen to your gut and really understand what it's telling you.

[rising_star]

He's really intense and intimidating. Even just spending an hour with him, I felt like he was totally grilling me and putting me on the spot already. Maybe this is normal for all advisors to do this?? I can tell that he's going to milk me for everything he can get out of me (other students of his have agreed that he definitely works a lot so he expects the same from his students - but at the same time they didnt have anything negative to say about him per se). I'm pretty timid... so I'm sort of afraid that I'm signing up for something I won't be able to handle. My gut is really nervous about going there because I'll be totally overworked -- and it seems there are exceedingly high expectations of me that I'm afraid I won't meet -- but are all these feelings normal???

My advisor does this all the time and I find it incredibly annoying. But, it's not personal. He does it to all of his students. I wouldn't call it negative in talking to other students, just something to be aware of.

I would start a dialogue with his current students to see what the work expectations are like exactly, etc. Ask how they handle it, what happens when they don't live up to his expectations, etc.

Definitely do this!

[Lantern]

I agree with the above posters. Definitely spend more time contacting this professor's current students. If you have already met or corresponded with any of his students, and feel comfortable with them, explain your situation - your fears, reservations, etc., and see what they have to say about it.

Everyone will tell you a different story, but mine is that I went to visit the school I decided to attend before I was accepted. (This is common in my field b/c of the time you will spend with your advisor, you really want to know them.) As I arrived for my visit, I was intimidated because I didn't feel like I was qualified to go to this school, and felt like maybe I was wasting this professor's time just by asking him to meet with me. To my surprise, relief, and pleasure, he could not have been any nicer or less intimidating. I still talked with several of his students, and got a lot of information about him. Along with being able to do my dream project, my comfort level and respect for my future advisor was instrumental in making my decision.

So yes, definitely put some time into thinking about what exactly intimidated you, and keep in mind that if your intuition is telling you something, you shouldn't necessarily disregard it.

[iLikeTrees]

Like everybody said, definitely talk to people to see if your perception is how he is always or if it what exactly to expect. Something else I'll suggest is talk to FORMER students or those that are NOT in his lab but have dealt with him. When students are still working under an advisor or have only recently gotten free, they have to be very careful about what they say because in many ways their careers and reputations are tied to his. I unfortunately know some people with a umm... difficult advisor. Make sure you can read between the lines of what people say.

I'm not trying to be negative, but I just want to make sure you realize that your gut MAY be right. Your original impression could also be wrong, and it could definitely have been nerves or stress on your part. When you've been shoveled around all day in interviews it's easy to feel overwhelmed and pressured by an intensive professor.

Also, there's nothing wrong if your what you thought was your #1 isn't after you considered other things. When I was applying to grad school I went to a school that was originally pretty low on my list, but after talking with my advisor and future lab mates, I completely changed my mind. I got into the other programs that had better reputations and got nice offers, but I decided I would be happier with my research and personal life at the place I am now. I have 0 regrets. I love my research and my advisor.

Even if your advisor is pretty hands-off in how he runs the lab, he will still be a BIG part of your life throughout grad school and it's very important to make sure you find one that you can get along with.

Again, I don't want to scare you and you've probably thought about this, but I've seen too many people miserable because they can't get along with their advisor and it's a situation to avoid if at all possible since moving labs can be messy for your program and academic politics. (Sadly politics can be a big part of some programs.)

[StrangeLight]

it is not unusual for some advisors to be very intimidating. it is not unusual for them to have exceedingly high expectations and to overwork you. those are all real things that happen with some frequency (though certainly not to every student). as others have said, contact the prof's current advisees and ask them to be completely honest with you, and assure them that nothing they tell you will make it to any other professor or student.

i really do believe that a good working relationship with your advisor is paramount to your success in grad school (success meaning actually finishing the PhD). if the intimidation will cripple you rather than motivate you, that's a bad combination for you regardless of how well known the prof or program is.

here are some real life examples:

advisor X is ridiculously strict, works her students to the bone, has NEVER ONCE passed a female student (those decisions have always had to go before the entire faculty in an appeal), routinely fails her students on their theses or overviews (after deciding they were ready to sit them!), and despite being THE scholar in her field, most of her advisees jump ship to work with someone else in the department before they finish the PhD. she has anywhere from 3-6 students at a time, but few (if any?) have ever finished the PhD under her supervision. one of her MA students is actually leaving graduate school and abandoning the field altogether, despite having tremendous promise as a scholar, because of how poisonous this advisor is.

advisor Y is also the top guy of his field. a real big name. he's very laid back. he prefers to do all his advising in single sentences through email only. he lets his advisees get through a year and a half of a two year program before saying, "hey maybe you want to think of a thesis topic that you could finish in 4 months." he then refuses to see ANY drafts until you've got a full version. he meets with his advisees in person MAYBE once a semester. he's actually unaware of the research topic of one of his students who is going to sit her MA defense in two weeks. he had 6 grad students at the beginning of this year and 3 of them have since quit the program. when he does successfully get a student through the program, they've spent 3 years getting a 2 year MA or 8 years getting a 4 year PhD. he's negligent, and without any guidance, his students either sink or swim on their own. great scholar. terrible advisor.

so yeah. avoid these two types of advisors like the plague.

advisor Z is a very intense young scholar with a strong (and growing) reputation. she has 5 graduate students, three that are moving along nicely, one that's a bit of a floater, and one that was extremely timid and got pushed out. this timid student could barely speak without nerves overtaking every sentence. writing is solid but the ideas aren't as cutting edge or groundbreaking as the advisor would like. when you say something dumb to this advisor, she just stares at you like you're a total moron. doesn't help you through, just glares and lets you hang yourself with your words. she's nice, she's friendly, she keeps up on her students and makes sure they progress through the program. but if you're drowning she's not going to help you to shore. she works you hard, and while other professors will love your work, she'll tell you it was conceptually incoherent and "what may be good enough for other people really just isn't good enough at all." if you can handle that, she's a great advisor. if you can't, you end up leaving.

if THAT'S the vibe you're getting from this potential advisor, i'd think long and hard before signing up with him/her. are there other profs at this school you could work with, if this advisor doesn't pan out? what is your interaction like with the prof at your #2 choice? i really do believe you need to be able to work well with your advisor if you're going to do research you're happy with, so at this point in the game, i'd forget about ranking and reputation and think about the best environment for you to excel.

[Squawker]

Be sure to keep in mind that this guy selected you to work with, probably over many qualified candidates. Of course you should take your gut feelings into consideration, but at the same time you shouldn't allow your nerves to take over and back out of an ideal program.

[bvang]

Wow thanks everyone for all your insights!

StrangeLight - Your Advisor Z example pretty much nailed it on the head. I definitely think he falls into this category... yet probably not as extreme. Meaning, I don't think he would not help me if I'm drowning--that said, I dont think he would be very happy about having to help me. Since I was offered acceptance, he's definitely reached out to me a few times and have made himself available - so I feel comfy about bugging him with questions. I guess this is one good sign?

Regarding why I'm really intimidated: I think it's more his personality than anything. For instance, he's definitely made it clear that my happiness is his priority (he's the head of grad studies so I think every student's happiness is top of mind), and he's definitely been really open to questions/concerns, but I feel like the way he comes off kinda negates what he's trying to say (i.e. he'll sound really impatient). Does that make any sense? Oddly enough, I find that communication via email with him goes much more smoothly (and makes me much more comfy). So maybe I really just have to get used to him and his style.

I'm planning on talking with the rest of his students this weekend. I was a bit afraid they wouldnt be too honest with me - but I'll try to make it clear that none of this will go back to him. It's difficult to get a hold of past students because that information isn't really available.

Thanks again everyone for all the suggestions. It's really helped me iron out what really bugs me about him - and maybe it's just his style that I'm not 100% used to yet. I'll make a final decision after talking to the rest of the students.

I've just heard way too many horror stories about bad advisors and didn't wanna fall into that. Thanks again for all your advice!!

[rising_star]

pjnut, there's a great post on this topic here: http://orgtheory.wordpress.com/2007/04/23/grad-skool-rulz-7-picking-the-adviser/ It may help you think about things.

[bvang]

pjnut, there's a great post on this topic here: http://orgtheory.wor...ng-the-adviser/ It may help you think about things.

Thanks for the link! That site had a wealth of information.

Update: So I actually ended up visiting my 2nd choice school between now and my last post. I thought I had my heart set on going to school #1 (even with the intimidating advisor) but I was pretty wrong. Turns out that I had an amazing connection with the professors at school #2 ... and I just felt so "at home" there. I blame it on a east vs. west coast culture difference. So for the past few days I've been stressing myself out trying to decide whether I should give school #2 a real chance since i clicked so well with the professors there. Ultimately, the only thing that has continued to bug me about school #1 was this advisor. SO... I ended up calling him up this weekend and having a long chat with him about my concerns. We were both very blunt about our expectations of each other, and he went through a list of "common complaints" students have of his lab... as well as things that ticked him off. All good things for me to know... and none of them actually really deterred me from joining his lab. At the end of the day, I think he just wants to challenge his students--in ways which some students might not be ready for.

So in conclusion, I think I've decided to stick with school #1. The phone convo really sealed the deal, and I've realized that I will learn and grow a lot more at this institution than at my #2 choice. Despite his Type A exterior, I think this advisor will push me the most... and if I stay open-minded enough, may allow me to even learn/adapt to his personality.

Thanks again everyone!