Chance me/advice for divinity schools?

[MaryHildegard]

I'm looking to apply for divinity school for Fall 2021.

I have a degree in economics from an okay-ish state flagship, with a 3.4 GPA, although I did improve a lot my last two years (3.5 fall junior, 3.6 spring junior, 3.8 both senior), and a minor in theater. I basically only took two 'real' upper level humanities classes (so I'm not counting web design for English majors, costume design, or costume technology). The only language I studied to any real degree was Japanese, which I took two intensive semesters of, although I also took two semesters of conversational Irish, first semester Chinese, and second semester Latin (I took four years of Latin in high school, as well as four years of German, two of Chinese, and one of Ancient Greek, although my knowledge of any of these is not the best). 

My research interest is the rise of traditional Catholic women's religious orders, especially teaching orders like the Nashville Dominicans. What's making them so appealing to young women (average age of a woman entering a convent went from 40 to 24 in the last 15 years), how many leave, is this the future of women's religious life/are liberal orders done for, etc. 

I'm currently an intern in an Episcopal women's religious community. I go to prayer three times a day, and I also have chapel responsibilities like ringing the bell, lighting candles, polishing bronze, etc. I also help with the garden/other outdoor work. I'm also taking a homiletics class at the nearby seminary, although not receiving academic credit.

I'm taking the GRE next week; so far on the practice tests I've been getting about a 160V/150Q. 

Also about me: I grew up very nominally liberal Protestant, and my mother said Catholicism was a cult and that being a nun was awful. But I grew up in a very heavily Catholic area, so I saw Catholicism all around me -- yard statues, ashes on people's foreheads, school uniforms, etc., and I also saw nuns, who I now know are from one of the fast growing women's orders. Beginning in high school I began to be fascinated by various forms of extreme religion, spent a lot of time on places like FreeJinger, and then in my last two years of college, Catholicism, and I started going to mass occasionally. And I spent a lot of time looking at websites for different women's orders and wondering what it would be like. This internship has thoroughly disabused me of my romantic notions of being a nun. I plan on talking about this in my SOP to explain why I'm interested since I don't have a relevant degree. 

The schools I'm looking at are: Harvard, Yale, Boston University, and Catholic University of America. 

Other stuff:

-The prioress here mentioned that one of the issues with traditional habits is there's a lot fewer seamstresses than there used to be, and making the outfits is time consuming. One of the theater classes I took was on clothing construction and we had to sew a dress (I've also sewn myself a dress based on a Dominican postulant outfit I saw online, partly by hand). I don't know if any of this is worth mentioning, that I know how hard it is to make clothes. 

-I had a research assistantship, in economics, which I do plan to briefly mention in my SOP and on my resume, but I don't know if mentioning the professor's name on my SOP is a good or bad idea. He's not someone you've heard of, but it just feels weird to me to write 'I had a research assistantship with a professor' instead of mentioning his name. 

-Other things on my resume: I'm a reporter and copy editor for a local weekly newspaper, I've had some generic admin. assistant jobs, and I was also an intern at a genealogical society, where among other things I helped digitize historic Catholic baptism records that were all in Latin, so I'm thinking I'll mention that as a 'I continued to think about the Catholicism that once was...' 

-I was in a Latin club in college (we basically helped out at high school events), which I don't know is worth mentioning. I did help moderate and write questions for certamen, which is a high school academic Latin trivia game that Harvard hosts a yearly competition for. 

-I happened to attend a high school that is a known Harvard undergraduate feeder, and the joke is that Harvard was founded so that graduates from my high school would have somewhere to go to seminary. I don't know if casually mentioning I attended there would be bad. Also, one of the cardinals who had a heavy hand in Vatican II also went there, so I don't know if saying 'I went to (school), designed as a seminary preparatory school for Puritans, which also later produced Cardinal (x)' or something like that would be bad. 

As you can probably tell, HDS is my top choice :). Another thing I'm unsure about is if it's a good idea to mention a specific course I want to take -- HDS has one on contemporary crises in Catholicism, which sounds like exactly what I want. I have mentioned that I appreciate that they have both Catholic theologians and feminist scholars, and that they're committed to the study of women's issues in religion. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by MaryHildegard

[xypathos]

13 hours ago, MaryHildegard said:

I'm looking to apply for divinity school for Fall 2021.

MDiv or MTS? I presume MTS given the more academic nature of interests but this is important to know. Knowing which degree you want, if helpful, would also help us craft your PS and topics to stay away from or ones not to spend too much time on.

14 hours ago, MaryHildegard said:

I'm taking the GRE next week; so far on the practice tests I've been getting about a 160V/150Q.

It's probably too late but double check that the schools you're applying to actually want the GRE. The vast majority of M* programs don't require it and some specifically ask you not to send them. That said, a 160V is a good score for master's programs. The reality is that you *might* need to retake it to get in the 163+ range but cross that bridge later. Outside of university "topping off" scholarships, no one cares about Q scores and these rarely go to people in the Humanities anyway.

14 hours ago, MaryHildegard said:

The schools I'm looking at are: Harvard, Yale, Boston University, and Catholic University of America.

If you're wanting to really get into monasticism-proper and what's driving these pockets of resurgance I'd take a second look at this list. I haven't looked at Harvard's faculty in a hot minute but I know there are plenty of opportunities to engage Buddhist and Hindu monasticism, but other than the occasional Jesuit faculty member, I don't know what else HDS has to offer. That said, maybe there's someone over in CSR doing something. For me, as an episcopal priest, having access to SSJE in Cambridge would be great and BTI as a whole.

My gut with Yale is more or less the same. I know Stephen Davis works in this area sometimes, and I know people over in the History department that do as well. My concern, probably minor, is that monasticism at either Yale or Harvard, if that is what you want to do, will be piecemeal.

Why BU?

BC would be great here too. Again, it also gives you access to BTI.

CUA makes sense.

I'd look at Notre Dame too.

14 hours ago, MaryHildegard said:

-The prioress here mentioned that one of the issues with traditional habits is there's a lot fewer seamstresses than there used to be, and making the outfits is time consuming. One of the theater classes I took was on clothing construction and we had to sew a dress (I've also sewn myself a dress based on a Dominican postulant outfit I saw online, partly by hand). I don't know if any of this is worth mentioning, that I know how hard it is to make clothes.

Unless you have an interest in material culture, I would mention it in passing - a sentence or two. It's unique and speaks to you but that's about it.

14 hours ago, MaryHildegard said:

-I had a research assistantship, in economics, which I do plan to briefly mention in my SOP and on my resume, but I don't know if mentioning the professor's name on my SOP is a good or bad idea. He's not someone you've heard of, but it just feels weird to me to write 'I had a research assistantship with a professor' instead of mentioning his name.

My advice might change depending on what type of degree you want and a more refined research statement/interests. But, I'm not sure I'd spend real estate in my SOP on it. A quasi-economic study about the resurgence of contemporary monasticism could be interesting but nothing you've said says you're interested in economic research/history. Put it in your resume until something bigger comes along.

14 hours ago, MaryHildegard said:

-Other things on my resume: I'm a reporter and copy editor for a local weekly newspaper, I've had some generic admin. assistant jobs, and I was also an intern at a genealogical society, where among other things I helped digitize historic Catholic baptism records that were all in Latin, so I'm thinking I'll mention that as a 'I continued to think about the Catholicism that once was...' 

I'd probably fancy this up and spin it into you talking about interests in digital humanities, archival work, etc. I don't know that I'd necessarily tie digitizing baptismal records to rose-tinted goggles of Catholicism.

14 hours ago, MaryHildegard said:

-I was in a Latin club in college (we basically helped out at high school events), which I don't know is worth mentioning. I did help moderate and write questions for certamen, which is a high school academic Latin trivia game that Harvard hosts a yearly competition for.

I would significantly narrow down your info on language experience ONLY to those languages pertinent to your interests (and those that you're willing to study further should your advisor and/or committee want it) and don't mention any of the others. Obviously speak to Latin, but very succinctly, speak to the various ways that you were involved.

14 hours ago, MaryHildegard said:

I happened to attend a high school that is a known Harvard undergraduate feeder, and the joke is that Harvard was founded so that graduates from my high school would have somewhere to go to seminary. I don't know if casually mentioning I attended there would be bad. Also, one of the cardinals who had a heavy hand in Vatican II also went there, so I don't know if saying 'I went to (school), designed as a seminary preparatory school for Puritans, which also later produced Cardinal (x)' or something like that would be bad. 

Under no circumstance should you write about where you attended high school. The only way this story comes across is you throwing shade and insulting Harvard, "You only exist because of my high school!" which is akin to "ergo, we're technically better than you!" It's made even more problematic due to the fact that you didn't attend Harvard or one of their rivals.

 

14 hours ago, MaryHildegard said:

As you can probably tell, HDS is my top choice :). Another thing I'm unsure about is if it's a good idea to mention a specific course I want to take -- HDS has one on contemporary crises in Catholicism, which sounds like exactly what I want. I have mentioned that I appreciate that they have both Catholic theologians and feminist scholars, and that they're committed to the study of women's issues in religion. 

HDS being a top choice is fine but it needs more justification than "You have this one course, you're willing to hire Catholics, and you're not too conservative." Regarding the course you want to take, I think Dr. Fiorenza teaches that to undergrads. I'm not sure on HDS' policy on students being allowed to take undergrad courses. Sometimes you can if you do extra work and sometimes it's an automatic no.

[MaryHildegard]

12 hours ago, xypathos said:

MDiv or MTS? I presume MTS given the more academic nature of interests but this is important to know. Knowing which degree you want, if helpful, would also help us craft your PS and topics to stay away from or ones not to spend too much time on.

It's probably too late but double check that the schools you're applying to actually want the GRE. The vast majority of M* programs don't require it and some specifically ask you not to send them. That said, a 160V is a good score for master's programs. The reality is that you *might* need to retake it to get in the 163+ range but cross that bridge later. Outside of university "topping off" scholarships, no one cares about Q scores and these rarely go to people in the Humanities anyway.

If you're wanting to really get into monasticism-proper and what's driving these pockets of resurgance I'd take a second look at this list. I haven't looked at Harvard's faculty in a hot minute but I know there are plenty of opportunities to engage Buddhist and Hindu monasticism, but other than the occasional Jesuit faculty member, I don't know what else HDS has to offer. That said, maybe there's someone over in CSR doing something. For me, as an episcopal priest, having access to SSJE in Cambridge would be great and BTI as a whole.

My gut with Yale is more or less the same. I know Stephen Davis works in this area sometimes, and I know people over in the History department that do as well. My concern, probably minor, is that monasticism at either Yale or Harvard, if that is what you want to do, will be piecemeal.

Why BU?

BC would be great here too. Again, it also gives you access to BTI.

CUA makes sense.

I'd look at Notre Dame too.

Unless you have an interest in material culture, I would mention it in passing - a sentence or two. It's unique and speaks to you but that's about it.

My advice might change depending on what type of degree you want and a more refined research statement/interests. But, I'm not sure I'd spend real estate in my SOP on it. A quasi-economic study about the resurgence of contemporary monasticism could be interesting but nothing you've said says you're interested in economic research/history. Put it in your resume until something bigger comes along.

I'd probably fancy this up and spin it into you talking about interests in digital humanities, archival work, etc. I don't know that I'd necessarily tie digitizing baptismal records to rose-tinted goggles of Catholicism.

I would significantly narrow down your info on language experience ONLY to those languages pertinent to your interests (and those that you're willing to study further should your advisor and/or committee want it) and don't mention any of the others. Obviously speak to Latin, but very succinctly, speak to the various ways that you were involved.

Under no circumstance should you write about where you attended high school. The only way this story comes across is you throwing shade and insulting Harvard, "You only exist because of my high school!" which is akin to "ergo, we're technically better than you!" It's made even more problematic due to the fact that you didn't attend Harvard or one of their rivals.

 

HDS being a top choice is fine but it needs more justification than "You have this one course, you're willing to hire Catholics, and you're not too conservative." Regarding the course you want to take, I think Dr. Fiorenza teaches that to undergrads. I'm not sure on HDS' policy on students being allowed to take undergrad courses. Sometimes you can if you do extra work and sometimes it's an automatic no.

Thanks. 

Yes, I’m interested in the MTS. I’m not sure if I want to pursue doctoral work but I don’t think I would really belong in an MDiv program. 

I don’t think I’m qualified for Notre Dame. I looked at BC’s program, but their masters is very theology focused (and I’m not qualified for a PhD). I picked BU because it’s near where I’m from, which I recognize isn’t a great reason.

I do really like how committed HDS is to studying women’s issues. After having thought about it a little more I realized my interest is not just the rise (and the romanticization) of religious life among young women, but the way it’s still feminist even though they hold themselves out in opposition to the liberal habit-less nuns. (Thinking about how the habit is a repudiation of performing femininity, and the rejecting marriage/motherhood, especially when traditional Catholics expect women to be stay at home mothers with 10 kids). I’m not sure that kind of thinking would play well at CUA, since they’re known for being pretty conservative. 

 

[MaryHildegard]

Thinking more about your comment about ‘material culture’, I am interested in the...outfit fetishism I see in these circles. There must be veils and modified habits aren’t that good either. I saw someone on a vocations forum ask about nursing orders that wore traditional habits, even though they’re really impractical for nursing. Liberal nuns are derided as Sister Mary Pantsuit. You go on Instagram and see 17 year old girls reposting photos of youthful nuns in their traditional habits and sometimes with flower crowns. It’s part of the romantic appeal. You see men from traddy orders out of their habits, but not women (Georgetown has data that back this up). But like I mentioned above, I do think the habit can be seen as a way to escape the sexualized nature of women’s clothing, but in the traditional one you can’t be seen as ‘frumpy’. Same with veils — unlike with other women’s religious head coverings, you don’t have to have attractive hair underneath for your husband. I’ve seen people mock nuns wearing the habit without a veil for their hair being too masculine or plain or whatever, and especially in traditional subcultures long hair is a big deal for women, so the veil says ‘no, you don’t get to judge me on my hair because you can’t see it.’ So I’m curious bout why the habit has had such a comeback when nuns were eager to get out of it in the 70s, and how much it’s true that only orders with habits get young vocations. (I know the JPII told sisters to start wearing habits again but many didn’t listen). 

I’ve also noticed a lot of traditional orders, while they wear veils, don’t wear coifs/wimples/all the other white cloth underneath, and I wonder how much of that is because it’s impractical (I know cornettes require immense amounts of starch). But I suppose I’m not really that interested in the manufacture of habits in more than a passing manner. 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by MaryHildegard

[Pierre de Olivi]

I would second just about everything written in @xypathos' post, including the look at Notre Dame or BC. Don't assume you're unqualified for a M* program unless a POI has directly told you that you are unlikely to be admitted in the cycle you plan to apply. HDS and YDS are known for having relatively high acceptance rates for an M* program so I think you have a reasonable shot at both of them. There is also quite a bit of research at HDS taking the approach to feminine agency you've described, a lot of which is building on Saba Mahmood's work. Be aware that, as xypathos suggested, insofar as you work on "monasticism" you may end up doing some work on non-Christian or ancient traditions to compensate for weak points in the programs' offerings (and because they typically mandate you take some courses outside of your main tradition of interest).

Reading your posts, it's not fully clear to me whether you want to take an ethnographic or historical approach to the resurgence in monasticism. They are, of course, complementary, and one can draw on both in the same study, but there seems to be a big gap between working with Latin baptismal records and doing discourse analysis on teenagers' instagram posts (and a further gap between what someone like Davis at Yale does and the latter). You will likely be able to get into an M* program (especially at HDS or YDS) without fully working out these methodological kinks, but it will be borderline mandatory to settle on one of these approaches as you think about doctoral programs.

Feel free to DM me about anything specific about HDS or help should you decide to apply there.

[hddeker]

I went to BU -- I'm not sure your work/interests would quite fit there, esp if you would want to go on for a PhD. A better choice might be BC. Harvard is a good choice re: academic reputation but I'm not sure if there are folks there that would align with your specific interests in Catholicism. Definitely check out the professors that are at the schools and if there are any whose research might align with yours, reach out and see if they'd be willing to have a conversation.