Heinz MSPPM-DA vs McCourt MS-DSPP

[cyeager]

I was wondering if anyone had any input about deciding between Georgetown and Carnegie Mellon's data science/public policy programs. I've gotten into both and am having a hard time deciding between the two - it seems like the Heinz program is more intense which could be either a positive or negative - I know I want to best prepare myself for a career but also want to be able to have time for a job/social life. I've seen that McCourt is a little lower ranked than Heinz but has the benefit of being in D.C., which appeals to me. Does anyone have any thoughts?

[GradSchoolGrad]

1 hour ago, cyeager said:

I was wondering if anyone had any input about deciding between Georgetown and Carnegie Mellon's data science/public policy programs. I've gotten into both and am having a hard time deciding between the two - it seems like the Heinz program is more intense which could be either a positive or negative - I know I want to best prepare myself for a career but also want to be able to have time for a job/social life. I've seen that McCourt is a little lower ranked than Heinz but has the benefit of being in D.C., which appeals to me. Does anyone have any thoughts?

The key thing is this:

1. At Heinz, you'll have more robust opportunities (although not guaranteed) to get very intense on the technical side of things. Also, if you look at the career diversity in terms of career outcomes - a lot more things outside of DC.

2. McCourt MS-DSPP - you'll have lots of experiential learning opportunities with live data, but because Georgetown doesn't have a robust CompSci program, so you won't really be integrate your data skills into the most cutting edge for data science, or go deep beyond the class offerings. If you want to get super technical, this is not the place to do it.

If you want a cookie cutter federal consulting / federal service career in DC.- MS-DSPP makes sense. However, if you want to be focused on policy innovation or things outside of Federal government, MS-DSPP doesn't make sense. 

McCourt Notes

Culture: 

Dr. Bailey runs MS-DSPP, and everyone loves him and he has done a terrific job building a program from nothing + makes himself super available to students. However, at the end of the day, it is part of the McCourt Program. The program underinvested in community and career support. 

[ellien575]

Would add, the Heinz program is much more established, McCourt's program is only a few years old. However, if you really want a federal career, you will have good internship opportunities at McCourt and if you're interested in a future in the federal cleared space, the potential to get a clearance in your first or second year through an internship could be very helpful for job apps after.

[cyeager]

13 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

Dr. Bailey runs MS-DSPP, and everyone loves him and he has done a terrific job building a program from nothing + makes himself super available to students. However, at the end of the day, it is part of the McCourt Program. The program underinvested in community and career support. 

Thanks, that's really helpful. In what senses does it come through that the program underinvested in community and career support? Are there not a lot of career services/do people find it difficult to get jobs?

[GradSchoolGrad]

1 hour ago, cyeager said:

Thanks, that's really helpful. In what senses does it come through that the program underinvested in community and career support? Are there not a lot of career services/do people find it difficult to get jobs?

So lets be clear, there MS-DSPP the track, which is awesome (granted its collaboration limits) and there is McCourt/the school.

For all intents and purposes, your MS-DSPP cohort of 20 to 30 something will collectivize and bond over data science stuff. Think of this like function. However, at the end of the day, you'll probably have to pick one a policy area (if you choose to stay within policy) that you actually care about and presumably want to get a job from (or at least know enough to sell that you know something in the area). 

Within the DSPP cohort, if you choose one of the super popular policy areas like Education or Gender issues, there will probably be 3-5 others like you. If you choose something less popular like Transportation, you might be alone. Dr. Bailey and the rest of the the professors are terrific and can definitely give career advice and guidance + your cohort might organize some social stuff.

HOWEVER, the main career and social functions are via the school. This is where the organization and structure for social and career support come from. 

Career: 
With Career Services, they work their butt off, but they are severely understaffed. You have 3 people for the ENTIRE SCHOOL (for all programs). 1 executive to run things, 1 event hosted, and 1 career coach. That career coach has to deal with all 250+ people across full time/part time (don't forget the alumni that they promise to serve as well) and etc. As you can imagine, that person is stretched thin and altogether career services doesn't have the capacity to really help you, as much as they try (and they try - first in the door and last out the door (sometimes as late as 7PM).

In many grad programs, you mitigate this by starting a peer career coach system, but McCourt doesn't do that. Also, McCourt in general has a bit of anti-career culture where its taboo you talk about career stuff because you don't want to make other people feel bad

Social:

McCourt's social activities consist of 3 things

a. Clubs - these are generally based off policy area. Most clubs, you can join as a member. However, to really be involved or mean anything, you have to apply to be a club leader or Officer and most clubs have about 10 positions or so. However, it is based upon application and whoo the previous year's leadership likes that gets allotted a position. For example, in regards to the Education Club. I am a higher education person with years of experience in the area, but since the leadership board the I was applying to were all K-12 education people, I was of little interest to them (and they told me as such). 

b. Social Events - there are some cultural social events (pot luck dinners) and silent auctions, but they don't invest in team building and bonding. Most programs have a cohort system whereby you are a split into teams/families/cohorts (whatever you want to call it) to have level of social cohesion. McCourt got away with that ages ago because people conducted sit in protests about not getting into the cohort they wanted (another story in it of itself). There is a really cool Christmas party though... 

c. Culture... - this is the most shocking, the McCourt culture is basically the policy wonk version of high school. You are seen as cool if you are associated with people that do niche things that sound cool for the time being. We had a person who came from a human rights non-profit. People formed a posse around her and wanted to be seen around her to get the halo effect. She was indeed a nice person and very real, but didn't exactly do anything meaningful to make the school better with her social capital. 

What is utterly uncool is talking about career stuff (which is not the norm for most grad schools) or about actually policy innovation and making an impact (if it doesn't sound cool). Just like high school football players reading their press clippings, the McCourt social all stars love it when they see their name in the McCourt magazine, instagram, or website. The shock hits many right before graduation / summer internship season that they are comparably less competitive for jobs because they haven't focused enough about career. 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by GradSchoolGrad

[cyeager]

Does anyone know anything about American University's MSDS program and how it compares to these two?

[GradSchoolGrad]

5 hours ago, cyeager said:

Does anyone know anything about American University's MSDS program and how it compares to these two?

That isn't a policy program, its a data science masters. Its harder to get into policy world without policy connections (it is a clique community) and it would be harder for you to get a policy approach concept to things. So if your goal is to go into policy land, I don't recommend you do it. If your goal is to become any random data scientist, as long as you have funding, sure. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by GradSchoolGrad

[cyeager]

1 hour ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

That isn't a policy program, its a data science masters. Its harder to get into policy world without policy connections (it is a clique community) and it would be harder for you to get a policy approach concept to things. So if your goal is to go into policy land, I don't recommend you do it. If your goal is to become any random data scientist, as long as you have funding, sure. 

It is a shared program between the school of public affairs and the college of arts and sciences, so the program does have a solid chunk of policy courses, especially if you do the applied public affairs track. Do you think that the fact that it's just called a Data Science program as opposed to a data science/public policy program would have a negative impact on future jobs, even if it does provide experience and knowledge in public policy?

[GradSchoolGrad]

Yes, I know it has policy track, but here is the deal - the core curriculum across these programs are pretty much all the same. No matter where you go, you'll be essentially learning the same thing first semester.

Whaat makes a difference for the grad school experience is:

a. what type of experiences, relationships, and exposure that you have.

Yes, I see there is public affairs track, but overall the you are part of the MS Data Science program training to be a data scientist - period. Sure, you can take a few classes here and there, but you won't be living and breathing policy and having policy conversations on the regular. From what I can see, it isn't a joint program (show me if I'm wrong), but just like most grad programs, you have formal structures to take advantage of opportunities in other schools within the University - basically a glorified super guest. You can't say that is getting the experience. That is like saying you are part of your best friends family after staying for dinner and some sleepovers. Ultimately, you aren't getting the best policy exposure. More tangibly, you won't be dealing day in and day out with policy oriented data sets. You can easily have a consumer goods data set a have to crack that egg (since there are lots of tracks). Tracks may influence what electives you take, but your core courses are generally shared. 

b. What brand do you carry (okay this only matters to get your first job after grad school + alumni connections, but generally matters less later)

Bottom line, American is an okay (arguably below University of Maryland), but not great brand in DC. Its decently strong for undergrad and IR, but everything else - meh. I'm also really confused why you are considering American after having a terrific option with the Heinz School, which has a the credibility, amazing experience, and etc.  

Edited March 12, 2021 by GradSchoolGrad

[Kaz_KV]

Thanks everyone who contributed to this - I am also trying to make a decision between these programs. Could anyone clarify on how data science-y the MSPPM-DA at Heinz is? Given the titles, I am wondering if the DSPP is more data science focused, while the MSPPM-DA is more data analytics focused. I'm currently leaning towards Heinz because (1) I'm worried the two stats classes at McCourt won't be enough (I really like stats); (2) Everything I hear regarding McCourt. However, the Data Science focus of the DSPP is appealing... Thoughts? Does Heinz have enough pure data science opportunities? Thanks everyone! 

[seb_]

What did everyone decide on? Just curious. 

Unless I get any last-minute epiphanies, I think I'll take my offer from MSPPM-DA.

[Kaz_KV]

57 minutes ago, seb_ said:

What did everyone decide on? Just curious. 

Unless I get any last-minute epiphanies, I think I'll take my offer from MSPPM-DA.

cyeager decided on DSPP. I'm really down to the wire on this one but plan to probably make the same choice.

Congrats on you MSPPM-DA decision!