Harvard vs Columbia vs Duke Statistics PhD

[CountablySane]

Hi! Long term lurker here. I'm super grateful to have gotten into Harvard, Columbia, and Duke for Statistics PhD. I'm interested in Bayesian statistics generally but don't have any specific interests beyond that. I know Columbia has Gelman and Blei but I've heard they turn quite a lot of people down because they're in such high demand.  Harvard has a lot of people who do MCMC and theoretical research but I think I'm more interested in Methodological/Applied work which Duke has a high concentration in (Dunson, West, Reiter, etc..). Also Harvard's academic placements seem to be mucchh better than Duke. Does anyone have any advice? Is the obvious choice here Harvard, esp because Duke lost Wolpert + Berger (West also is pretty old? )?

Edited March 10, 2021 by CountablySane

[DanielWarlock]

I once faced a similar situation (plus Berkeley, minus Columbia). Columbia is very attractive to me, contrary to popular opinions here. If I had an offer from Columbia, I would be tempted to say the least simply because of the location. Imagine living at downtown Manhattan with Columbia's low-cost student housing. Columbia also appears to have a rigorous format with 2 quals (1 qual immediately when you start in September) and 3 separate specialty tracks: probability, math stats, and data science (including ML, applied statistics) headed by Blei. Here, the 2nd qual tests you on your specialty field. Classes such as probability, math stats, applied stats are 3-semester sequences instead of the usual 1-year load elsewhere and they restrict undergrad/master enrolment so that the courses can be taught at a high-level of rigour for just PhDs. I feel that the curriculum is much more in-depth than what we have at Harvard because Harvard often have about half of the class being undergrad (so all of our classes require minimal to none measure theory but Columbia is full of them). Basically Columbia program gives you more clarity in terms of concentration from the start. I think you will likely go to the data science track so I say a bit more: you get a joint degree in statistics and data science so there are mandatory credits in computer science classes, mathematics etc. 

Harvard is a trade-off in terms of location. It is 20mins drive from downtown Boston and Cambridge itself is not bad at all. 15 mins walk to MIT (if you take classes or do research there, you can get a very cheap blue bike student pass). It is nowhere near NYC experience but still above average in terms of location convenience. Harvard programming is moderate: 1 qual at the middle of 2nd year, mandatory class in prob, inference etc--a total of 7 mandatory classes, which appears to me to be less demanding than Columbia. In terms of applied work with Bayesian analysis, Professor Jun Liu is a big expert. Prof. Sam Kou also does a lot of applied work with Bayesian. Pierre Jacob is a big computation expert but he also does methodology work on stuff like model comparison, nonparametric Bayesian. Xiao Li now works with astronomy stuff a lot, which is also applied work I guess? He calls it "working with astronomically large data". Not sure how much of it is Bayesian but I'm sure you can make it so if you want to. 

Duke's location is not very appealing to me because of the remoteness. But if you like quiet, idyllic type of environment, Duke might be a good fit. I feel Duke program is in between Harvard and Columbia, with 2 quals (occurring later than Columbia) but less advanced coursework. I don't know much about Duke other than that. I just remembered that director Dunson told me students have flexibility with coursework and working with other department (e.g. CS and Math). 

[trynagetby]

I can't comment on the quality of the programs, but I went to Columbia undegrad so I can comment on location and housing. People have different feelings about the location because while Columbia is in Manhattan, it doesn't really have the Manhattan feel. It's definitely more residential and family orientated (which I like). If you live around the campus you have really easy access to the 1/2 subway line which gives super good access to downtown Manhattan and Brooklyn. If you're Asian, there's an H-Mart super close so you can get Asian groceries and Westside market is great. Central and Riverside park are nearby which is also very nice if you like jogging.

Disadvantages are that its really not the Manhattan experience (I lived in East Village one summer, and its a completely different feel). Restaurant/Bar scene are meh (but you'll likely be broke anyway). The Affordable student housing that the previous poster mentioned is affordable, but still kinda sucks as you will likely have a roomate (roommate in the sense of sharing a room, like as a freshman in undergraduate). Many students decide to rent a place in Brooklyn but then you have to commute an hour to school. Morningside rent is pretty pricey.

Winters are kinda sad (probably better than Boston lol). But Springs/Summers are super nice. I don't really have any advice, just wanted to give some honest location info.

[Stat Phd]

Duke if truly want to be Bayesian.

Columbia because of the overall school and the city.

[bayessays]

I'd say that Duke offers the most options if you want to do Bayesian stuff -- you'll definitely be able to do some Bayesian methods thesis there with someone good even if you don't get your first or second choice of advisor.  I feel like the best-case scenario at the three places are all pretty good: Blei/Gelman at Columbia, Dunson/Reiter at Duke, and Imai/Meng would all be amazing opportunities.  I'd try to get a better idea of whether you'll be able to work with top people at each program, because that's what it will come down to in the end.  Once you get to this tier of program, you really should be looking at the advisor options and personal factors like location.

[CountablySane]

On 3/13/2021 at 10:09 PM, DanielWarlock said:

Duke's location is not very appealing to me because of the remoteness. But if you like quiet, idyllic type of environment, Duke might be a good fit. I feel Duke program is in between Harvard and Columbia, with 2 quals (occurring later than Columbia) but less advanced coursework. I don't know much about Duke other than that. I just remembered that director Dunson told me students have flexibility with coursework and working with other department (e.g. CS and Math). 

Thanks you for describing their curriculum so in depth!  Columbia's curriculum definitely seems the most comprehensive. By this do you mean that Duke has the least advanced coursework of the 3?

On 3/13/2021 at 11:00 PM, trynagetby said:

I can't comment on the quality of the programs, but I went to Columbia undegrad so I can comment on location and housing. People have different feelings about the location because while Columbia is in Manhattan, it doesn't really have the Manhattan feel. It's definitely more residential and family orientated (which I like). If you live around the campus you have really easy access to the 1/2 subway line which gives super good access to downtown Manhattan and Brooklyn. If you're Asian, there's an H-Mart super close so you can get Asian groceries and Westside market is great. Central and Riverside park are nearby which is also very nice if you like jogging.

Disadvantages are that its really not the Manhattan experience (I lived in East Village one summer, and its a completely different feel). Restaurant/Bar scene are meh (but you'll likely be broke anyway). The Affordable student housing that the previous poster mentioned is affordable, but still kinda sucks as you will likely have a roomate (roommate in the sense of sharing a room, like as a freshman in undergraduate). Many students decide to rent a place in Brooklyn but then you have to commute an hour to school. Morningside rent is pretty pricey.

Winters are kinda sad (probably better than Boston lol). But Springs/Summers are super nice. I don't really have any advice, just wanted to give some honest location info.

 How safe is it near Columbia and is it easy to find a cheaper apartment near there? I heard there was an incident last year.

[DanielWarlock]

1 hour ago, CountablySane said:

Thanks you for describing their curriculum so in depth!  Columbia's curriculum definitely seems the most comprehensive. By this do you mean that Duke has the least advanced coursework of the 3?

 How safe is it near Columbia and is it easy to find a cheaper apartment near there? I heard there was an incident last year.

Hard to say now. Harvard's courses have become harder this year. The 2nd inference class now follows Van der Vaart almost exactly--we used to just cover MLE consistency/normality and some less theoretical Bayesian stuff like model comparison, mcmc. 2nd prob instalment also paces faster than previous iterations. Looks like Duke could indeed be the least demanding in terms of course work. 

[trynagetby]

2 hours ago, CountablySane said:

 

 How safe is it near Columbia and is it easy to find a cheaper apartment near there? I heard there was an incident last year.

If you don't take Columbia housing, it'll be rough for sure. Expect to pay 1.5-2k + even with a room mate.  On safety, the Columbia area is very safe right now. I've walked alone at 1am from Manhattanville (if you work with Paninski/Cunningham you'll be up there)  back to my Dorm near Columbia and have felt pretty safe because its pretty well lit and restraunts will be open. But NYC is a big city so you have to use common sense and be alert. There will be the same homeless people and some of them may have mental health issues that will cause them to harass you, but they won't cause you any serious problems.  If you aren't really street smart (as in lived in a high-crime city like Baltimore, Bad parts of Chicago, Detroit...) I'd highly recommend you stay south of 125th street and on the Columbia side of Morningside (known by the locals as muggingside) park. The incident you're referring to was due to the student walking through the park at night which is not advisable. The park isn't lit at all at night and the nearby housing projects have had some problems with drug-related crime and muggings. But stick near Broadway/Amersterdam Avenue and Below 125th and you'll be fine. There really isn't a reason to go anywhere else for school/research.

I make it sound like its dangerous but its really not. I came from a very safe rural Suburb and didn't feel at all at danger any time at Columbia. NYC has a crime spike now, but I suspect that's because subways are so empty and places are so depleted. So please don't worry about it. Imo Columbia/Morningside is waay safer than Duke/Durham.

[cyclooxygenase]

Greetings everyone!  I'll defer any commentary about Duke's coursework to another recent post of mine, but I wanted to clarify a couple things:

1. I think(?) Duke got referred as having 2 qualifying exams, but we only have 1!  We have the actual, appropriately named Qualifying Exam (formerly the First Year Exam -- it's still administered after the first year), and then a later Preliminary Exam, which I'm guessing is what's getting confused for a second qual.  I'm not entirely sure how to characterize the Prelim Exam myself (the description of it is here), but I'd probably call it closer to a thesis proposal than a qualifying exam in the usual sense, at least functionally.  

2. (Sigh...) I've lived in Morningside Heights before, I've lived in Durham before.  Anecdotally, I've been fine both places (and I assume I would've been in Boston as well).  Regardless of that, I'm really not convinced that debating the safety of large, highly-populous neighborhoods or entire cities without some rigorous framework is a productive conversation, y'all.  

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by cyclooxygenase