2023 Application Thread

[50CentParty]

25 minutes ago, waitingforresults said:

Yes, and it will gradually become more common, because the job market is overcrowded with people who pursued a PhD without a clear plan for the rest of their lives. Going straight to a PhD from college is often referred to as "postponed unemployment" in place where I am from.

Thank you! This is very helpful (as well as your post a few days so).

I graduated in 2020 and worked for 2 years in a related-industry for 2 years before deciding to apply last year. So at least for me in particular, it's more like the case where even if my profile is as strong as an applicant with MAs and I have a clear plan (as I already explored other options), many schools (especially Ivy ones?) still prefer BA-MA applicants over BA-only ones. Maybe it's me being cynical. The only plausible explanation seems to be elitism (not to mention the fact that outside the China filed, many Ivys continue to admit almost half of their cohort directly from BA after the pandemic based on public grad school profiles).

Re your point about 2-year MA, I totally agree. But I think there're a couple of issues.

1) There're few 2-year MA options and most of them offer little/no funding (of course, some schools offer full-funding for extremely-strong students);

2) I sense the competition has become so fierce that I'm not confident I'll get into a so-called Top school even if I apply again after getting a 2-year MA. My POIs tell me now because I don't have a MA and would likely tell me next round it's individual faculty preference or topic fit. Related to the first point, if faculty can't be clear enough in terms of why they reject applicants (especially for those who already invested in a MA degree), I'm afraid this will push those rejected to get another MA and apply for another cycle. To me, this has become morally questionable and I'd call it a scam. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by 50CentParty

[waitingforresults]

1 minute ago, 50CentParty said:

Thank you! This is very helpful (as well as your post a few days so).

I graduated in 2020 and worked for 2 years in a related-field for 2 years before deciding to apply last year. So at least for me in particular, it's more like the case where even if my profile is as strong as an applicant with MAs and I have a clear plan (as I already explored other options), many schools (especially Ivy ones?) still prefer BA-MA applicants over BA-only ones. Maybe it's me being cynical. The only plausible explanation seems to be elitism (not to mention the fact that outside the China filed, many Ivys continue to admit almost half of their cohort directly from BA after the pandemic based on public grad school profiles).

Perhaps. I can't speak for my field (Eastern Europe/russia/Eurasia), but professors I know from Ivies are sometimes discouraged about the prospects of their graduate students particularly because of the job market, and prefer them to have enough qualifications and degree(s) before coming to the PhD. Just so they can have a Plan B.

Moreover, some programs offer applicants the opportunity to pursue an MA if they are not accepted for a PhD, which, in my opinion, is a great option (though some take it as an offence).

[50CentParty]

19 minutes ago, waitingforresults said:

I can't speak for my field (Eastern Europe/russia/Eurasia), but professors I know from Ivies are sometimes discouraged about the prospects of their graduate students particularly because of the job market, and prefer them to have enough qualifications and degree(s) before coming to the PhD. Just so they can have a Plan B.

Yeah I think this is a good explanation. Also shared a few thoughts re your point about 2-year MA above. 

[waitingforresults]

8 minutes ago, 50CentParty said:

Yeah I think this is a good explanation. Also shared a few thoughts re your point about 2-year MA above. 

It's easy to become cynical and label everything as a scam. However, I have no idea about the drivers for those decisions or how they're made (only guesses).

Regarding your point about MA degrees and funding, there are fantastic MA programs in the EU or UK, often with funding or the opportunity to obtain one, particularly in Sweden, Germany, and the Netherlands. Even without a direct stipend, education there is available for free, and funding can be obtained on the fly (like in Germany from Parteistiftung, like Heinrich-Böll-Stiftung, Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung etc.). But this is just an idea. The point is that there are always options.

Edited February 4, 2023 by waitingforresults

[50CentParty]

23 minutes ago, waitingforresults said:

It's easy to become cynical and label everything as a scam. However, I have no idea about the drivers for those decisions or how they're made (only guesses).

Regarding your point about MA degrees and funding, there are fantastic MA programs in the EU or UK, often with funding or the opportunity to obtain one, particularly in Sweden, Germany, and the Netherlands. Even without a direct stipend, education there is available for free, and funding can be obtained on the fly (like in Germany from Parteistiftung, like Heinrich-Böll-Stiftung, Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung etc.). But this is just an idea. The point is that there are always options.

Thanks for sharing the information! 

[nm-evergreen]

2 hours ago, 50CentParty said:

I'm wondering is it still possible for PhD programs to directly admit from BA/without any MA degree after the pandemic for any field?

My field is modern China and I've been rejected by more than half of the schools I've applied to at this point. At least two POIs (at an Ivy) told me directly they didn't admit me because I don't have a MA (even though I'm among the strongest) and it's very rare for them to directly admit from BA. But I don't think this is empirically accurate after checking for example Chicago and Princeton's newly-admitted grad students last year; BA-only vs. BA+MA is almost half and half.

My undergraduate advisors really discouraged me from pursuing an MA but did recommend I take a year or two off before applying to PhDs. I was told that MAs are primarily useful if you didn't have the opportunity to pursue original research during your Bachelors. Obviously every profile is different but I do think that the cost of MAs, and the fact that your PhD program will probably expect you to complete their MA coursework anyways, makes them unappealing IMO. 

Take this with a grain of salt - I'm still waiting to hear back from most of the programs I applied to. But this was the advice I received from faculty with undergrad & graduate advising experience and in a pre-doctoral fellowship. No one in my fellowship pursued a MA before beginning their PhDs and all were admitted to their top programs. Hope this is helpful!

[porcelainruby]

1 hour ago, waitingforresults said:

It's easy to become cynical and label everything as a scam. However, I have no idea about the drivers for those decisions or how they're made (only guesses).

Regarding your point about MA degrees and funding, there are fantastic MA programs in the EU or UK, often with funding or the opportunity to obtain one, particularly in Sweden, Germany, and the Netherlands. Even without a direct stipend, education there is available for free, and funding can be obtained on the fly (like in Germany from Parteistiftung, like Heinrich-Böll-Stiftung, Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung etc.). But this is just an idea. The point is that there are always options.

Also for anyone debating next steps regarding whether they would want to try for an MA before/instead, it is possible to use the US Fulbright program to fund a Masters program abroad. This isn't something I've personally done, but known people who did. Even if you are no longer an undergrad, your undergrad college's Fellowship/Scholarship office may be open to helping alumni with the Fulbright process or offering other advice with it. 

[50CentParty]

13 minutes ago, nm-evergreen said:

My undergraduate advisors really discouraged me from pursuing an MA but did recommend I take a year or two off before applying to PhDs. I was told that MAs are primarily useful if you didn't have the opportunity to pursue original research during your Bachelors. Obviously every profile is different but I do think that the cost of MAs, and the fact that your PhD program will probably expect you to complete their MA coursework anyways, makes them unappealing IMO. 

Take this with a grain of salt - I'm still waiting to hear back from most of the programs I applied to. But this was the advice I received from faculty with undergrad & graduate advising experience and in a pre-doctoral fellowship. No one in my fellowship pursued a MA before beginning their PhDs and all were admitted to their top programs. Hope this is helpful!

Thank you for sharing this! It's the same w/t my undergraduate professors (liberal arts college; so no graduate-level experience). Almost all of them think getting a MA is unnecessary and a waste of money basically. It seems this is the general consensus of this forum as well: only get an MA if 1) it's fully-funded and 2) if you have a particularly weak component in the profile that a MA could help.

But now I realize the competition has become so intense (especially for top programs) that a MA will give an inherent advantage over BA-only applicants (regardless of the actual profile?). Or it's very possible it's only an issue for the field of China I guess. One possible reason is the China filed has additional supply of applicants that many other fields don't have. A lot of international students from China wants to study Chinese history in the U.S. and typically if their undergraduate is in China, they have to do a U.S./UK/overseas MA to be competitive for PhD programs. For other fields like US history and European history, most applicants are domestic students.

[50CentParty]

6 minutes ago, porcelainruby said:

Also for anyone debating next steps regarding whether they would want to try for an MA before/instead, it is possible to use the US Fulbright program to fund a Masters program abroad. This isn't something I've personally done, but known people who did. Even if you are no longer an undergrad, your undergrad college's Fellowship/Scholarship office may be open to helping alumni with the Fulbright process or offering other advice with it. 

Yeah I know. Unfortunately US Fulbright is only for US citizens while I'm an international student.

[porcelainruby]

9 minutes ago, 50CentParty said:

Yeah I know. Unfortunately US Fulbright is only for US citizens while I'm an international student.

Sorry I was commenting more for future potential-US applicants who might read back through this exchange. 

[prospectiveafricanist]

4 hours ago, 50CentParty said:

I'm wondering is it still possible for PhD programs to directly admit from BA/without any MA degree after the pandemic for any field?

My field is modern China and I've been rejected by more than half of the schools I've applied to at this point. At least two POIs (at an Ivy) told me directly they didn't admit me because I don't have a MA (even though I'm among the strongest) and it's very rare for them to directly admit from BA. But I don't think this is empirically accurate after checking for example Chicago and Princeton's newly-admitted grad students last year; BA-only vs. BA+MA is almost half and half.

I was accepted into two PhD programs with top professors in my field, one of whom has successfully helped place all 5 of his recent PhD students in TT positions. So it's not impossible. I had a 4.1 gpa, a year of experience as a research assistant, 2 scholarships per semester, an essay prize and, I think, a very very strong SOP but I didn't have any publications.

[50CentParty]

55 minutes ago, porcelainruby said:

Sorry I was commenting more for future potential-US applicants who might read back through this exchange. 

No need to apologize at all! This will be useful info for future U.S. applicants.

[50CentParty]

15 minutes ago, prospectiveafricanist said:

I was accepted into two PhD programs with top professors in my field, one of whom has successfully helped place all 5 of his recent PhD students in TT positions. So it's not impossible. I had a 4.1 gpa, a year of experience as a research assistant, 2 scholarships per semester, an essay prize and, I think, a very very strong SOP but I didn't have any publications.

Thanks! Congrats on your offers!! 

I'm increasingly convinced it's only an issue for the field of Chinese history unfortunately.

[waitingforresults]

1 hour ago, 50CentParty said:

Yeah I know. Unfortunately US Fulbright is only for US citizens while I'm an international student.

US Fullbright also funding US MAs.

 

1 hour ago, 50CentParty said:

Thank you for sharing this! It's the same w/t my undergraduate professors (liberal arts college; so no graduate-level experience). Almost all of them think getting a MA is unnecessary and a waste of money basically. It seems this is the general consensus of this forum as well: only get an MA if 1) it's fully-funded and 2) if you have a particularly weak component in the profile that a MA could help.

But now I realize the competition has become so intense (especially for top programs) that a MA will give an inherent advantage over BA-only applicants (regardless of the actual profile?). Or it's very possible it's only an issue for the field of China I guess. One possible reason is the China filed has additional supply of applicants that many other fields don't have. A lot of international students from China wants to study Chinese history in the U.S. and typically if their undergraduate is in China, they have to do a U.S./UK/overseas MA to be competitive for PhD programs. For other fields like US history and European history, most applicants are domestic students.

At least 50% of European / Eastern European / Eurasian studnets are from Europe and have MAs from there too (my case). 

[cladthecrab]

1 hour ago, 50CentParty said:

Thank you for sharing this! It's the same w/t my undergraduate professors (liberal arts college; so no graduate-level experience). Almost all of them think getting a MA is unnecessary and a waste of money basically. It seems this is the general consensus of this forum as well: only get an MA if 1) it's fully-funded and 2) if you have a particularly weak component in the profile that a MA could help.

But now I realize the competition has become so intense (especially for top programs) that a MA will give an inherent advantage over BA-only applicants (regardless of the actual profile?). Or it's very possible it's only an issue for the field of China I guess. One possible reason is the China filed has additional supply of applicants that many other fields don't have. A lot of international students from China wants to study Chinese history in the U.S. and typically if their undergraduate is in China, they have to do a U.S./UK/overseas MA to be competitive for PhD programs. For other fields like US history and European history, most applicants are domestic students.

 

It may make some difference that I graduated from my BA during the pandemic, but I was told by a couple of my undergrad faculty that performing well in an MA program could boost chances of getting into a PhD program.

I haven't heard back from my programs yet so I can't speak to whether that worked, but I do think it helped to make my profile stronger. Two years of study was sufficient time to get some grad conference presentations, a pub, a thesis that serves as proof of concept for my proposed research, and a writing sample from a grad seminar that was much stronger than anything I produced as an undergraduate, despite having research experience when I applied to my MA. My program was funded, so that likely colors my perception, but all that is to say that you may still find some value in an MA program if you're struggling to get admissions with the BA alone.

[prospectiveafricanist]

6 hours ago, 50CentParty said:

Thanks! Congrats on your offers!! 

I'm increasingly convinced it's only an issue for the field of Chinese history unfortunately.

Thanks for your congratulations. I agree that it's more a problem in Chinese history: my chinese history professor mentioned to me that there's often more competition in that field.

 

But I think generally lots of students have masters and it makes them more competitive in their field. I feel like I got into these schools in large part because the fit was excellent: professors at both institutions shared my thematic interests almost completely.

[50CentParty]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:02 PM, cladthecrab said:

 

It may make some difference that I graduated from my BA during the pandemic, but I was told by a couple of my undergrad faculty that performing well in an MA program could boost chances of getting into a PhD program.

I haven't heard back from my programs yet so I can't speak to whether that worked, but I do think it helped to make my profile stronger. Two years of study was sufficient time to get some grad conference presentations, a pub, a thesis that serves as proof of concept for my proposed research, and a writing sample from a grad seminar that was much stronger than anything I produced as an undergraduate, despite having research experience when I applied to my MA. My program was funded, so that likely colors my perception, but all that is to say that you may still find some value in an MA program if you're struggling to get admissions with the BA alone.

Definitely agree a funded MA would boost PhD admissions chance for all fields.

The sad thing is that for the field of modern China, I've seen some extremely-strong and well-prepared applicants with 2 MAs who have been rejected from most of the schools they applied to this cycle. This is hurting. 

[50CentParty]

On 2/4/2023 at 3:48 PM, waitingforresults said:

US Fullbright also funding US MAs.

 

At least 50% of European / Eastern European / Eurasian studnets are from Europe and have MAs from there too (my case). 

Thanks for this! You're right US Fulbright funds US MAs. But the Trump administration ended the Fulbright program for China and HK back in 2020 unfortunately. Definitely not an ideal time for Chinese students to study in the U.S...

And thanks for providing the perspective re European history!

[orcinusorca]

Has anyone heard back from Northwestern?

[CheckYesJules]

Just now, orcinusorca said:

Has anyone heard back from Northwestern?

Still waiting, and losing my mind over it!

[orcinusorca]

6 minutes ago, CheckYesJules said:

Still waiting, and losing my mind over it!

I was emailed by my POI who asked for my MA thesis saying that the AdCom had requested it. This was on 20 January. Haven’t heard a thing ever since. 

[popolo]

Any new info about Harvard? ?

Edited February 6, 2023 by popolo

[nightiey]

Has anyone applied to/heard back from Indiana University Bloomington? I saw a bunch of their other grad departments are releasing decisions yet it's been radio silence for history thus far.

[waitingforresults]

UW-Madison informing admitted studnets now through email from DGS.

[ladydobz]

3 hours ago, nightiey said:

Has anyone applied to/heard back from Indiana University Bloomington? I saw a bunch of their other grad departments are releasing decisions yet it's been radio silence for history thus far.

I'm waiting to hear back as well... I know that Purdue *should* release around 2/15 based on prior years, so, I'm hoping they're running on the same schedule. Just out of curiosity, what is your area of focus? (I completely understand if you don't want to say)