Comparing Schools (MPP/MPA/Ph.D)

[orangedonkey]

Hi guys, recently i got into several MPA/MPP programs and can't decide which one to choose. Would anyone like to give me some advice? I'd really appreciate it!

I am accepted by

Gtown/mpp

NYU,Wagner/mpp

Syracuse Univ/mpa (only lasts 1 year and i am afraid the location would be a drawback)

USC/mpp (with $ 12,000 scholarships)

GWU (no funding at all)

U of Michigan-Ann Arbor/mpp

U of Maryland-College Park/mpp ( with half grad assistantship, around $ 27,700)

UCSD/MPIA( pacific and int'l affairs, pretty much like an int'l affairs program)

U of Texas-Austin/mpa

U of minnesota-twin cities

U of Indiana and Purdue U-Indianapolis/mpa

and rejected by Columbia/mpa :cry: :cry: (they said i am too young and encourged me to reapply) and still waiting on U penn/MGA (Government administration), AU/mpa

Personally, i prefer Gtown and NYU. Gtown is a prestigious university and got awesome location. NYU has some professors whose interests overlapped with me very closely and i feel like they have sufficient teaching resources and good career service, like job affair, career panel, etc. I am interested in public finance, public and non-profit management, like program evaluation and performance management. And I'd like to work in big NGOs, like World Bank and UN( i know its extremely difficult to get in) and investment banks, consulting firms( they seem to recruit MPA/MPP students as well). I dont know if i can work in US state/local government, as a foreign student. If they also want int'l students, that would be great, since i hope to gain some us government experience.

However, with the consideration of funding, UMD would be a good choice. But i was told it s not a top program and actually research-oriented, not like other professional program which prepare students for career! I dont want to do research work, PHD or teach. If no funding with GTOWN/ NYU, is it worthwhile if i go for it?

Would anyone like to give me a hand? I am really confused these days and got to decide early. Thank you!!!~~

[xnormajeanx]

i dont really have anything productive to add besides... congrats. that is a lot of schools that you got into!

[orangedonkey]

thanks xnormajeanx~

I guess i just applied to too many schools...hehe..cuz before I appiled and worked on my application, i was like" there s no way that they want me~~"

which school would u choose if u were me, xnormajeanx? I have to decide really early due to the visa issue, so any input will be greatly appreciated!!!!

[xnormajeanx]

i am in the same struggle and constantly changing my mind. but here's whats been going through my mind the past few months.

i am also an international student i looked at all the same programs as you and out of the ones you listed, only applied to gtown. i started applications to the ford school and to gwu but never submitted them because i realized i would not have been thrilled at either place even if i ended up there. i didn't want to be in michigan. michigan is a depressing place. i looked at the course offerings, the professors, the concentration/policy tracks, etc. and felt that georgetown fit best with my conceptual model of what i wanted a policy program to be like. plus, i felt that it had the broadest appeal. i am from canada, and people in canada often know about gtown -- but not the others. i don't know if i'll remain in the US -- if i go home, i want to have a degree that is recognized.

all this said, i am still not sure i want to go. i was offered 24K+ funding per year, but the amount i will have to take out in loans still seems like an insurmountable burden.

i am also waiting on decisions from harris, gspp, wws and ksg, and hoping for some place to accept me with more funding.

[orangedonkey]

Thank you, X!

May i know when did u hear the funding news? They told me if i 'd receive a letter if funding is applicable.

actually i prefer MPA over MPP because i think mpa is more flexible and i might end up doing something else, like mba, finance, etc. But i can't apply to MPM in gtown, since it requires much working experience.

You might be right about U michigan. My friend graduated frm that school and he suggest me not go there. Also, i feel like U michigan /mpp s also a research-based program. If you wanna do phd and teach, u michigan might be a good choice.

Best of luck with yr applications to the rests schools!

[another_application]

first, it's amazing that you were accepted into so many top programs. while i don't have any advice (although i've heard syracuse has a top program) i do have a question regarding the Columbia program:

and rejected by Columbia/mpa (they said i am too young and encourged me to reapply)

i'm worried about my age too (turned 20 in november)...did you call and ask columbia? or how did you get feedback on your application?

[erin85]

ugh, I'm ultra-nervously waiting to hear from Umich, as they are my top choice...

Personally as an in-state student I'd give up a financial offer from almost anywhere else to go there, but I have a bit of a cheaper ride. They let you take any undergrad course for free, so awesome if your a language-geek and want to take a language course.

[erin85]

also uofm places alot of people at the world bank/state dept... Very strong and well known for federal govt. placement.

[Paradoxex22]

Umm....while the location may not seem ideal, many people say Ann Arbor is a fantastic college town, and the Ford School has a program that many would say is better than GT.

The truth is that it's different: The Ford school is heavy on quantitative analysis. As this doesn't seem to be your focus, it may not fit for you, but I am not so sure that, outside of sheer name recognition (which folks in the industry should see beyond) the Ford School is any less elite than GT's MPP.

[MPPHopeful]

Orangedonkey,

That's a lot of schools. Basically I would go through them looking for two things: 1) what you're looking to get out of the program and 2) what expenses/risks you're willing to take. For instance, there's a couple of schools you're considering that are 1 year programs...is that something that you think would serve you best, or do you think 2 years is better in a cost/benefit analysis? What about scholarships/cost of living/income earning potential/loan repayment programs, so far as the overall costs go? Consider the proximity to places you might consider working or the degree to which potential employers network with or recruit at your school (so, ie, Gtown or SAIS are great if you want to work for the federal gov't - they're in DC after all; but Mich, even though it's in AA, is still good b/c of it's reputation/strong alumni)...and also consider where you would like to live for 2 years - it does make a difference. Are there any profs or particular specializations at any school that interest you? Do you have the opportunity to visit and see what the schools are like? If not, maybe see if you can contact someone who goes to each school and ask their opinions (see if you can finagle a way around getting contact info for someone from the admissions offices b/c they obviously have a vested interest in your decision).

I hope that's somewhat helpful in decision making...a couple of years ago, I had the fortune of selecting between about a dozen very good law schools and it was one of the most difficult decisions imaginable; it appears yours might be a similarly blessed challenge...best of luck; I don't think you can really lose at this point. Also, if you don't mind my asking, what were your stats/WE/etc (esp. given that SIPA said you're too young...that's one of my worries as I am on the younger end of the typical student age spectrum)? just trying to gauge how it all plays out (I only applied to KSG and WWS because they have specific joint degrees with my law school)

[orangedonkey]

Thank all of you~~

To erin and paradox: would you like to share more info about U of Mich/mpp with me? it looks like u both know much about U of michigan. My friend who graduated from there told me not to go there, and i dont know why. BTW, erin i replied to your post about GT,GWU and UMD and wondering if u'd like to leave me the contact info cuz i thought u'd go for UMD and i might go there too hehe...if funding would be my major concern.

To another appli and MPP hopeful : i heard back frm SIPA this morning. They asked me to check the decision by applyyrself system. They said I am too young although they are impressed by my academic, professional acomplishments, and the average mpa student age is 27. Actually i am 22 but with 2 years' full time professional experience in government.( i graduated frm university at the age of 16 if u'd feel its a bit strange..hehe). My GRE is 590/V( hehe i am an int'l , so sucked at the verbal part), 750/Q, 5.0/AW. I got 3.6 on my undergrad study and 3.9 for the 1st year at a master program related to econ.I guess i might ask for some feedback next week, cuz its almost weekend~~~in fact i corresponded with a SIPA faculty about my appli to SIPA and she said my background was very competitative and thus encouraged me to apply....but.....i got rejecttttedddd :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: (heart-brokennnn).....however....i was thinking even if they accepted me....could i really make it to sipa??? it costs like 60,000 $ for a year!!!!and i dont have so much money~!!)

BTW...i reallllly want to work in WORLD BANK but i was told they normally hire PHD, not masters~~~~is it true?????? someone said U of michigan/mpp graduates work in there~~~so does it mean if i go for U of mi....big chance for me to get into WORLD BANK? Another question is DO FEDERAL GOV WANT INT'L STUDENTS? I heard that int'l graduates cannot work in federal gov due to the security reasons...but is it likely for me to work in state/local government in US.?

Moreover,,,,,anyone knows the private sector (like investment banks or consulting firms) tend to hire most of mpa/mpp graduates from which school? ????

Any input will be greatly appreciated~~~!!

[pingouinus]

Hi orangedonkey,

That's interesting i received exactly the same letter from SIPA, 'impressed by my academic background but too young/not enough professional experience". I am a 23 int'l student, so i know that hurts ! Still i imagine age is not the main criterium for admission (in their stats i think they mention they accepted students from 21 to 42), but if you are young the race is even more competitive because of course you lack the experience others have gained in 4 or 5 years.

[erin85]

Thank all of you~~

To erin and paradox: would you like to share more info about U of Mich/mpp with me? it looks like u both know much about U of michigan. My friend who graduated from there told me not to go there, and i dont know why. BTW, erin i replied to your post about GT,GWU and UMD and wondering if u'd like to leave me the contact info cuz i thought u'd go for UMD and i might go there too hehe...if funding would be my major concern.

Sent you my email address through private messaging, so just throw me a line there if you want. its quicker to get ahold of me there, and easier to answer/respond to specific questions.

GT gave me a small scholarship I found out this morning (the day after they said I'd know... ). So they are still in the running... GT's is only a 5K scholarship, but it at least makes the school worth looking into... I think I prefer their program to Marylands, but the debt factor makes it hurt...UMD I have the same offer as you--the half grad assistantship...

UofM just sent me a rejection, so looks like I'm moving to DC for sure this fall... scary!

[xnormajeanx]

Most of us know where we're choosing between at this point. I thought it would be useful to make a big chart with the strengths and weaknesses of each of the schools I got accepted to, to compare them and also consider price differentials. Everyone should join in and add their own schools! (Price differentials will be different for everyone of course)

----------------------------------- Georgetown GPPI -------------------Chicago Harris ----------------- Berkeley GSPP

Price differential (for me)-----------Baseline ------------------- +$15,000 over two years --------- +$29,000 over two years

US News Rank -------------------------- #10 ---------------------------------- #7 -------------------------------- #1

Program strength ---------------------Foreign policy? ---------------- Social policy? ---------------Generalist/Economic policy?

Graduate placement ---------------Mostly federal govt? ------------------- ??? --------------------- Mostly Cali/Bay area govt?

How quantitative?------------------- Medium ------------------------------- High------------------------------ High

Faculty quality-------------------------???--------------------------------------??? ----------------------------------???

Size ---------------------------------- Large (125+) ------------------------ Large (120+)-------------------- Small (65+)

Male: female ratio------------------ 52% women ------------------------- 58% women-------------------- 64% women

Cost of living -------------------------- High------------------------------- Low-Mid ----------------------------- High

Name recognition (US) ----------------- ??? ---------------------------------- ???-----------------------------------???

Name recognition (abroad) -------------??? ---------------------------------- ??? -------------------------------- ???

So... please add what you know, including correcting inaccuracies! Include other schools for yourself! What other qualities are important that I missed?

[Stephen33]

Hello xnormajeanx

As a Canadian who has applied to some of the same schools as you (and been accepted to some of them as well), I can share my opinions, for whatever they are worth. I am a mid-career public servant working for a provincial government.

In terms of general strength of reputation, I would definitely place Berkeley and Chicago above Georgetown. Georgetown's location would certainly serve it well if you choose to work in DC, but I think a Chicago or Berkeley degree would "travel better", if you get my drift. This judgement may be less relevant if you are focusing on IR, but for other purposes I would definitely give the reputational advantage to the other two schools.

fyi, right now I am deciding among Carnegie Mellon, Chicago and Michigan. I also applied to Harvard, but have heard nothing from them as yet, and am assuming a rejection. Even if I were to be accepted there, I doubt that the financial terms would be such that I would turn down quite good funding offers from any of the other schools.

Best of luck with your decision!

[xnormajeanx]

Hello xnormajeanx

I think a Chicago or Berkeley degree would "travel better", if you get my drift. This judgement may be less relevant if you are focusing on IR, but for other purposes I would definitely give the reputational advantage to the other two schools.

Hi Stephen33, I'm also Canadian, but I've lived in the US for a long time now. I would like to eventually return to Canada and work for the federal govt. For IR, I've seen a ranking from a Canadian point of view that puts Georgetown high up there (#2 I think) -- but this is for their MA in IR, not MPP. I'm actually a bit unsure of whether I want to concentrate in IR (in which case I would focus on international trade) or domestic labor/economic policy. Do you think in Canada people know about Georgetown vs Berkeley vs. Chicago?

[Stephen33]

Hello again, xnormajeanx

For whatever its worth, my opinion is that you are likely to have broader career options with a Berkeley or Chicago degree. If you are quite certain that you want to do IR and work for Foreign Affairs Canada, Georgetown may indeed be your best option (I do not know, because I know little about the IR world). On the other hand, if you think there is a good chance you might wish to do something else (say, domestic policy) I would argue in favour of Berkeley /Chicago. The reason for this is fairly simple: Berkeley and Chicago are two of the truly great universities of the world, and are recognized as such throughout the world. Georgetown is a fine university, but not of the Berkeley/Chicago calibre (very few schools are). Chicago is deeply respected by everyone with whom I have ever discussed the matter. I know that this is a factor of some importance as I weigh my own decision; whether it will be decisive or not, time will tell.

Perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing your views on my dilemna? I'm looking at offers from Chicago, Michigan and Carnegie Mellon (the last is for their 1-year accelarated program). Funding is slightly better at Chicago than Michigan, while the CMU offer is good but not strictly comparable since it is only a 1-year program and thus cheaper in terms of opportunity cost. I will admit to being a bit intimidated by the thought of living on the south side of Chicago, and Harris sounds a little impersonal, although it looks very strong and rigorous academically. Michigan sounds solid, balanced and pleasant, while CMU has the advantage of being a very good 1-year program, but the disadvantage of less name recognition. Any thoughts?

[xnormajeanx]

Check your PM!

[Stephen33]

Check your PM!

Done; I've replied.

[erin85]

I'm actually now going through the same issues, but its Georgetown vs. UChicago as I did not apply to Berkley. Cost being roughly equal (about 10,000 cheaper/yr for GT), and my goal is to work in program evaluation/policy analysis in the Fed Govt or non profit sector, focusing on poverty reduction/economic development... primarily on the domestic level. I also want to do State Dept, but where you get your degree seems to make little difference, moreso just your test scores and language ability for them. I expect to live/work in DC, or at least for DC based organizations once my career starts. If I want to do abroad work, I'll do State Dept... and as I said I know where you received your degree from means very little overall there.

My questions with Chicago are: are they too quantitative heavy for me? Econ is NOT my strongest suit, but I am passable in it...I've taken a 101 course though, and that is it. I've also never gone past mid-level college algebra. Stats I'm fine with, no worries there... its mostly the very high level econ work at Chicago which worries me. They stressed in their admittance letter that furthering my knowledge over the summer in calculus and econ would be needed if I planned on doing well. I've never touched calculus, so it'll be... rough to say the least. Rumor has it they are also a "center right" program. I'm a left-leaning person on the political spectrum, and come from a "almost falling over it's so left tilted" undergrad program. I want a centrist viewpoint in my grad program.

Pretty much I find their program intimidating as all hell...but as I was told by a friend "I don't think they'd admit you if they thought you'd flunk out..."

Georgetown I am overall more interested in, due to the fact I find their courses to be ones that would challenge me, but wouldn't be impossible. Plus their listing in the social policy sector has quite a bit of cross over with their international development sector, on topics such as poverty reduction. I have a feeling if I want to do more quant. work I can take classes through the washington contortion, but I'm not 100%. Some of it also has to do with my desire to live in DC as well, and start the internship and job search as early as possible.

Chicago is a HUGE name though. And I decided Georgetown over UMaryland because of name brand value mostly. So is this worth it?

I also saw from Chicago's brochure they are quite good at private sector employment... Most employers on their list were private sector I believe. Not something I'm very interested in though, but it's good to note a shift from the other programs in job placement...GT seems to have a good mix of govt placements, non profits, and private sectors though...

UGH, I think for me the visits (GT on the 28th, Chicago on the 11th) are going to be the make-or-break its for me. I've heard some nasty things about Chicago students from friends in other programs who visited, but it could just be stereotypes and not true!

K, this post was much too long. I've been a bit anxious about the GT vs Chicago issue for a few days now though, so I guess this was just my release

-Erin

[xnormajeanx]

Private sector is a big deal for me because I am not a US citizen. If you go on a consulting firm like Deloitte's recruiting page for example, they have special internship postings for Harris school and GSPP but not for GPPI. I've found this with a few other firms. So that's sort of my concern about GPPI -- I won't get the support/on campus recruiting I need to go into consulting. That's not really my first choice -- I'd rather work for a think tank like the Urban Institute, New America Foundation, etc. but I have some concerns about how willing they are to take non-US citizens. (Ugh at not being a citizen.)

Erin: I don't think you should worry about not being prepared for Harris. That's what math camp is for. They recommend that you brush up on econ and calc before you go, and you should probably do that if you want to go there, but I wouldn't be scared. They know what they're doing with these acceptances! They must have confidence in you.

I feel like having a strong quant background makes you more employable no matter where you go. I think GPPI's classes sound more interesting... but will they really be as helpful? Then again... will I be miserable crunching numbers 24/7? When I visited Harris the students there said one disadvantage is they didn't seem to step back and look at the whole picture as much as schools like Georgetown, because they spend all the time doing calculations. I'm a bit worried about that...

As for left leaning vs right... I actually heard that Gtown was pretty conservative? I don't know!

As someone who was raised very liberal and has gotten more conservative even during undergrad (is that normal?) I actually don't really mind one way or the other, as long as dissent is tolerate, which I'm sure it would be at any of these schools.

[erin85]

As for left leaning vs right... I actually heard that Gtown was pretty conservative? I don't know!

My friend that went there for a bit said "centrist" was the feel from Gtown. Although it is a Catholic University, it doesn't maintain close ties to the Church. Chicago is very well known for being conservative within its econ and sociology departments though...

For me it matters as I want to do work in welfare policy, and as it's a field very heavily influenced by politics, I'd rather a school without a hard lean... Economics can be used to both prove welfare as awful, or to prove it's amazing and helpful... just matters the theory they teach... So I'd rather exposure to both sides!

[Canadianpolsci]

I will be doing a PhD in political science next year, but I have friends who went to SAIS, and a friend who has been accepted to KSG-Harvard.

It occurs to me, as I am in contact with the SAIS grads now looking for jobs, that many people who do a MPP or M.A., etc., end up applying for jobs they did not envision when they entered the school. I have, therefore, a general question:

if the MPP/MA is not for an absolutely clear career path, wouldn't Princeton and KSG beat SAIS and Georgetown, because of name recognition and cache? Chicago and Berkeley are also good schools, but not ranked quite as high as the four I listed first (or that was my impression).

Georgetown and SAIS are usually the top to in rank for IR and policy issues. But I told my friend: if you get Harvard or Princeton, remember the name counts ALOT.

Was my advice reasonable? That the name, the ivy league name, is in the long run very important as employers who don't know so much about the rankings see the ivy league name as the most solid of all basic credentials, etc...

?

[applicant54321]

xnormajeanx, would you mind pasting a link to the site that detailed deloitte recruiting events on public policy campuses? Thanks!

[xnormajeanx]

xnormajeanx, would you mind pasting a link to the site that detailed deloitte recruiting events on public policy campuses? Thanks!

I just meant job/internship postings. Go here: http://careers.deloitte.com/opportuniti ... nternships

You might have to search "MPP"

Basically, they seem to have many reserved spots for KSG and Harris students. Only one for American U, Georgetown, several for Pitt. Of course they have general open ones for people from any school, but it seems more like you'll get a spot coming from KSG or Harris.

Someone tell me if I am totally wrong about this.