Comparing Schools (MPP/MPA/Ph.D)

[xnormajeanx]

That said, ICF visits Georgetown and the Ivies but not Harris or GSPP.

http://www.icfi.com/Careers/reQuery.asp

click on ICF on campus

[xnormajeanx]

It occurs to me, as I am in contact with the SAIS grads now looking for jobs, that many people who do a MPP or M.A., etc., end up applying for jobs they did not envision when they entered the school. I have, therefore, a general question:

if the MPP/MA is not for an absolutely clear career path, wouldn't Princeton and KSG beat SAIS and Georgetown, because of name recognition and cache? Chicago and Berkeley are also good schools, but not ranked quite as high as the four I listed first (or that was my impression).

I'm not sure if this is as true for MPP as MA. MPP people generally do go into government or nonprofits and if they go into the private sector it is at least half the time for public sector consulting, not for business/banking etc, although it happens (at Harvard more than others, probably.) At Princeton for example very very few people go into the private sector afterward.

Gtown's MSFS program is ranked highly but GPPI is not as much. and Gtown as a whole is not as well regarded as Chicago, but is still a great "brand" in the policy world. So those of us who have been accepted there will have to consider what that means.

And btw for MPP/MPA Berkeley is not just a good school, it's ranked #1 by USNews, whatever that means. And although SAIS is a bit snooty it's not that well regarded either, it seems.

[MPPGrad]

Berkeley MPP here. GSPP is tops for policy analysis, not for overall policy school. GSPP faculty and administration say that the policy analysis ranking is the one that they care about really, but I'm not as convinced. I think that GSPP is a remarkable place but it's hard to deny that they are primarily connected to policy work in California. I would say that GSPP is definitely strongest in social policy and most of my classes were oriented towards discussions about poverty.

One important consideration for GSPP is the cost. By virtue of being public, it is much, much cheaper than most schools, even if you don't get funding. If you are a US citizen you are in-state after your first year (if originally from out of state). There is a professional fee but it is very low, an extra 4k a year. Furthermore, if you are willing to teach that waives in-state tuition and fees (but not out of state tuition and the professional fee), plus gives you enough to live on. So you can graduate GSPP with very low debt. They have very few scholarships -- usually about 1-2 per year. However, with the low cost, scholarships aren't as needed. My impression is that GSPP alums are less likely to work in private sector -- not that Deloitte etc don't recruit, which they do. However, Berkeley MPPs often work in foundations, non-profit groups, etc. WIth the lower debt burden you have several options when you graduate and don't need to be primarily concerned about paying off your loans, which was important to me.

[xnormajeanx]

Berkeley MPP here. GSPP is tops for policy analysis, not for overall policy school. GSPP faculty and administration say that the policy analysis ranking is the one that they care about really, but I'm not as convinced. I think that GSPP is a remarkable place but it's hard to deny that they are primarily connected to policy work in California. I would say that GSPP is definitely strongest in social policy and most of my classes were oriented towards discussions about poverty.

One important consideration for GSPP is the cost. By virtue of being public, it is much, much cheaper than most schools, even if you don't get funding. If you are a US citizen you are in-state after your first year (if originally from out of state). There is a professional fee but it is very low, an extra 4k a year. Furthermore, if you are willing to teach that waives in-state tuition and fees (but not out of state tuition and the professional fee), plus gives you enough to live on. So you can graduate GSPP with very low debt. They have very few scholarships -- usually about 1-2 per year. However, with the low cost, scholarships aren't as needed. My impression is that GSPP alums are less likely to work in private sector -- not that Deloitte etc don't recruit, which they do. However, Berkeley MPPs often work in foundations, non-profit groups, etc. WIth the lower debt burden you have several options when you graduate and don't need to be primarily concerned about paying off your loans, which was important to me.

I just talked to a GSPP student on the phone. I didn't know about this tuition remission thing in exchange for being a TA or RA. That is really great, and is making me consider Berkeley a bit more because it will be cheaper than Chicago and probably similar in cost to Georgetown for me...

My professors are encouraging me to choose Chicago, however.

[cubandan22]

Hi Everyone!

First time using this forum, thought I could get some advice. I'm looking to go into defense policy, applied to a number of MPP/MPA programs to get strong economics and policy development training. I heard yes from the MPA at Syracuse Maxwell School, the MPP at Chicago Harris School, and the MPA at Columbia SIPA. What are people thoughts for the three programs, especially for things like reputation, program strength, career advancement, etc.?

Thanks!

[hambergrrr]

If you're looking for strong economics training, I would say go for Chicago. For defense policy, perhaps look at faculty profiles for more information? I don't know the defense policy arena well, but from the looks of it, Columbia's faculty for that concentration are based within the polisci department, whereas at Syracuse, they seem to be core faculty in the MPA program.

I don't know if that says anything about strengths of the program, but my inclination would be to think that within the MPA/MPP program specifically, there maybe aren't as many resources pooled into that specific concentration if there aren't core faculty w/assignments at the MPA/MPP school. Does that make sense...? For example, if faculty has assignments in polisci, maybe they're more likely to give polisci student priority over others?

[applicantZERO]

There is no question: go to Columbia. It is a gold standard for IR and security studies, has a better name than Chicago and a way better name that Syracuse, which is a solid Masters program but a so-so overall school.

Plus: NYC.

[jayhovah703]

Hi all,

I'm loving this thread. And strangely, I'm somewhat excited because everyone replying maybe one of my classmates next year. I was shut out of the Ivies (KSG, WSS), but was accepted everywhere else: LBJ, GSPP, GPPI, SIPA (Doesn't count as Ivy, to me), and GW. The 2 schools I'm very strongly considering are GSPP and GPPI. Both have great names, are quantitative, and have many positive factors going for them. I'm a California resident, so GSPP has a one up on cost, even with 10k funding from GPPI.

There has been one GSPP commenter here, but what I gather from both programs is that the GSPP is more structured with less electives. To me, that means more general analytical skills. I believe there is an internship and a thesis that will give me the opportunity to focus on my areas of interest, but I like this approach to PP. GPPI has more electives (I think) but also requires a specific focus to the MPP.

From a program match up, there a number more electives at GPPI, but the law courses at GSPP are right on, in my book. My electives, ideally, will be in GIS and STATA programming as that is what interests me in the future. However, I want a more robust understanding of policy and GSPP seems more suited for me. I'm talking myself into it at this point. However, I'd really appreciate any feedback from GSPP graduates to date.

And it really appears that from a funding perspective, in the second year at GSPP I would likely be able to receive a TA-ship position that would eliminate my need for loans. I think. There seems to be more funding available for students at GSPP than GPPI. But I was UC undergrad, so me and my friends were always hustling for campus jobs.

[xnormajeanx]

Columbia might be a gold standard for its MIA program but not for MPA.

[xnormajeanx]

Hi all,

I'm loving this thread. And strangely, I'm somewhat excited because everyone replying maybe one of my classmates next year. I was shut out of the Ivies (KSG, WSS), but was accepted everywhere else: LBJ, GSPP, GPPI, SIPA (Doesn't count as Ivy, to me), and GW. The 2 schools I'm very strongly considering are GSPP and GPPI. Both have great names, are quantitative, and have many positive factors going for them. I'm a California resident, so GSPP has a one up on cost, even with 10k funding from GPPI.

There has been one GSPP commenter here, but what I gather from both programs is that the GSPP is more structured with less electives. To me, that means more general analytical skills. I believe there is an internship and a thesis that will give me the opportunity to focus on my areas of interest, but I like this approach to PP. GPPI has more electives (I think) but also requires a specific focus to the MPP.

From a program match up, there a number more electives at GPPI, but the law courses at GSPP are right on, in my book. My electives, ideally, will be in GIS and STATA programming as that is what interests me in the future. However, I want a more robust understanding of policy and GSPP seems more suited for me. I'm talking myself into it at this point. However, I'd really appreciate any feedback from GSPP graduates to date.

And it really appears that from a funding perspective, in the second year at GSPP I would likely be able to receive a TA-ship position that would eliminate my need for loans. I think. There seems to be more funding available for students at GSPP than GPPI. But I was UC undergrad, so me and my friends were always hustling for campus jobs.

Hi Jayhovah (again)! Did you get a call from a GSPP student yesterday? I spoke to one and she said as soon as you get to campus, if you want a TAship, within the first week you WILL get one. with a TAship, you get tuition remission and a small stipend. If I were a CA resident I would absolutely choose GSPP.

[MPPGrad]

If you have any GSPP questions, or general MPP questions for someone who has done the process, let me know. Yes, GSPP is very, very structured. The general thinking is that an MPP is about receiving training in policy analysis, not taking a lot of classes to learn about your specific policy interests. You can do that on your own. It would be hard to learn microeconomics on your own. But, you can cobble together a bit of a specialty if you are willing to look around the university for related courses. Your master's thesis is a policy analysis for a client so you can get some good solid experience and apply the MPP tools in that way to your specific interests.

Also, I really would not count on being able to find a teaching job your first semester at GSPP. Think about it -- classes are starting when you get there, so you would need to find a class that doesn't have enough teachers! It's not that common. Then again, I did teach my first semester at Berkeley. I just wouldn't count on it. After the first semester, I think that you shouldn't have a problem finding a teaching job if you are entrepreneurial.

[hambergrrr]

Columbia might be a gold standard for its MIA program but not for MPA.

I agree. People don't choose Columbia for economics training, and their MPA is notably weaker... much lower ranked, too, than either Syracuse or Chicago if you follow or care about rankings.

[jayhovah703]

Thanks for the tidbit Norma! I did get a call but I missed it. This is GREAT news. I'll be at GSPP in a few weeks for the open house and this was one of my primary questions. Minimizing student loans is an obvious priority for me, so this makes me very optimistic! I appreciate it. All the talk of GSPP is making GPPI float into oblivion at this point and I'm 95 percent sure that it is where I will go. If you have any questions you want asked at the orientation, please let me know.

[Muhammad]

Hi!

As you might be knowing from my previous post that i am a fulbright scholar so fee is not a problem for me. Which is the best university in your opinon amongst the three mentioned above for MPP?

also can any one kindly do a comparison between these cities regarding living expenses? and ease of finding housing? and number of students in a class.

thanks

[Stephen33]

Pls. check your messages.

[applicant54321]

It appears there have been several inaccurate statements made about the Columbia SIPA MPA program - man this place is starting to feel like autoadmit where people just keep spewing out whatever information they have heard elsewhere regardless of its truth.

The MIA and MPA programs each have an acceptance rate of 30% according to SIPA itself. USNews rankings are very outdated (2004) and the MPA program has been growing. The rankings are ignored by most in the field because they are unscientific and weigh solely the views of deans in the public policy schools - this ultimately favors the biggest schools that have the most alumni out there at other universities serving in administrative roles and voting for their alma mater. This is exactly the case with Maxwell, a dean told me firsthand. To claim that he MPA program at. SIPA is weak based on this ranking is thoughtless. The faculty are almost identical for the MIA and MPA programs and the students take most classes together. Such faculty are tops for both IR and PA including a nobel laureate and other distinguished professors. Just take a look at the faculty page. Columbia has a solid political science department which also adds to the quality of the MPA program. Lastly, the MPAs have a higher employment rate than the MIAs.

So let's get the facts straight, to call the MIA program the gold standard and the MPA program far weaker is just not true by both statistics and common knowledge among those in the field.

[hambergrrr]

It appears there have been several inaccurate statements made about the Columbia SIPA MPA program - man this place is starting to feel like autoadmit where people just keep spewing out whatever information they have heard elsewhere regardless of its truth.

The MIA and MPA programs each have an acceptance rate of 30% according to SIPA itself. USNews rankings are very outdated (2004) and the MPA program has been growing. The rankings are ignored by most in the field because they are unscientific and weigh solely the views of deans in the public policy schools - this ultimately favors the biggest schools that have the most alumni out there at other universities serving in administrative roles and voting for their alma mater. This is exactly the case with Maxwell, a dean told me firsthand. To claim that he MPA program at. SIPA is weak based on this ranking is thoughtless. The faculty are almost identical for the MIA and MPA programs and the students take most classes together. Such faculty are tops for both IR and PA including a nobel laureate and other distinguished professors. Just take a look at the faculty page. Columbia has a solid political science department which also adds to the quality of the MPA program. Lastly, the MPAs have a higher employment rate than the MIAs.

So let's get the facts straight, to call the MIA program the gold standard and the MPA program far weaker is just not true by both statistics and common knowledge among those in the field.

The MPA program is weaker for a number of reasons, even aside from rankings--and I meant that it is weaker compared to other MPA programs, NOT its own MIA program. My understanding of the SIPA program is from having friends w/in the MPA program, and working with profs here in CA who collaborate directly with a handful of profs at SIPA.

And I just have to add that even with all the distinguished professors you speak of, that does not always equate to a quality education. I went to Berkeley, where there are a ton of distinguished profs, but I certainly don't think they all have the same enthusiasm for teaching as they do for their own research!!

[hunter58]

Hi all,

I'm a first time poster, and I was hoping to get some feedback and opinions on the pros and cons to some of the schools that I was accepted into. Any information would be very much appreciated!

The PhD programs that I am particularly curious to get feedback and opinions on are:

1. Pardee RAND Graduate School Policy PhD Program

2. Evans School Public Policy PhD Program

I understand that the Evans school's phd program is fairly new and have not had any graduates yet, but if anyone could provide some information on the rigor and potential marketability of that degree I would greatly appreciate it. RAND's program seems very non-traditional, so I was hoping to gather some feedback on outside opinions on their program.

Thank you in advance!

[umer]

Hey guys!

I am an international student and have been accepted at SIPA (MPA) and GSPP (MPP). I have a couple of questions:

1. Which program, in your opinion, is more geared towards international placement? ( the kind of effort career service dept puts in and the support alumni network shows?)

2. When you say more more/less quantitative what exactly do you mean? From the looks of it SIPA and GSPP both offer the same kind of core courses. Then how do you differentiate?

3. Why, and how, do you say that GSPP MPP is domestic policy focused? As i said earlier, SIPA is offering almost the same kind of core courses and its supposed to have an international focus (or atleast thats what my impression is)

4. Are professors accessible/helpful at each university ?(especially at SIPA which takes in a lot more people than GSPP)

5. What was the batch size last year at SIPA and GSPP? (Do they divide the incoming batch into different sections or everyone goes into one section?)

6. Which degree has more international prestige ? (Does columbia's ivy status really matter that much?)

Feel free to give any additional info on the two programs.

tx

[dcsailor4]

Hey friends and colleagues,

I somehow managed to get into every program I applied to, and am now really no closer to a decision than I was two weeks ago. I could really use some help. Any thoughts on my situation ... I'm interested in doing security/foreign policy work after graduation (currently work in the field), and while money is not the biggest issue for my personal situation, it is not irrelevant either.

The short list is (in rough order):

-- KSG (mpp)

-- SIPA (mia)

-- SAIS (ma)

-- Gtown SPS (ma)

And possibly ...

-- Harris School (mpp) ... but only because of a 30K scholarship

The long list is:

-- Ford School (mpp)

-- Elliott School (ma)

-- AU (mia)

-- CIR/UChicago (ma)

Thanks!!

[hambergrrr]

umer--i'll take a stab at this.

I am an international student and have been accepted at SIPA (MPA) and GSPP (MPP). I have a couple of questions:

1. Which program, in your opinion, is more geared towards international placement? ( the kind of effort career service dept puts in and the support alumni network shows?)

-- GSPP is *supposedly* more domestically focused, but one of their current students that I was in contact with the past year had gone abroad during her summer internship, and even did her Advanced Policy Analysis (APA) thesis paper on recommending how that specific country could improve its (I believe) health services. I forget the exact topic, but she did say that the resources are definitely there for you to take advantage of. She told me that career services were very helpful in that respect. I think being at SIPA probably affords you lots of international contacts as well, but I can't comment on that as much, since I didn't look into it there. My sense is that you get more individualized attention in career services at Berkeley b/c the smaller class size. It might be helpful to check out the list of employers they have: http://gspp.berkeley.edu/admissions/doc ... lletin.pdf (page 45) and compare that to SIPA. It seems like they do overlap quite a bit in the int'l realm.

2. When you say more more/less quantitative what exactly do you mean? From the looks of it SIPA and GSPP both offer the same kind of core courses. Then how do you differentiate?

-- The way I've been looking at it is that at GSPP, it seems like developing strong quant. skills is more required (i.e. you have to take a year-long series of micro/macro and econometrics). At SIPA, the second semester of their "quantitative techniques" course is optional, but *strongly recommended* according to their website. But my friend who is there currently says that it can be as quant-heavy as you like (dependent on your concentration). Overall though, GSPP seems more geared toward rigorous analysis, whereas SIPA seems more broad (but I think that is partially b/c the MIAs and MPAs are in the same school?).

3. Why, and how, do you say that GSPP MPP is domestic policy focused? As i said earlier, SIPA is offering almost the same kind of core courses and its supposed to have an international focus (or atleast thats what my impression is)

-- Again, I think it's what you make of your experience and whether you use the resources available at both schools. I think both schools have lots to offer in that respect. If you look at all the departments aside from their own respective ones, both Berkeley and Columbia have strong business, law, economics, and public health schools...not to mention all the other depts, but those were the main ones I looked at.

4. Are professors accessible/helpful at each university ?(especially at SIPA which takes in a lot more people than GSPP)

-- I can't comment on SIPA as much on this, but when I went to visit GSPP, I met with John Ellwood and he was very helpful (I was looking at joint MPP/MPH programs at the time, and he's the director). Given the smaller number of students at GSPP, I'd imagine you get more individualized attention there. I've heard that professors actually know your by name by the time you're done at GSPP! Maybe that's the case at SIPA too but I don't really know enough to comment.

5. What was the batch size last year at SIPA and GSPP? (Do they divide the incoming batch into different sections or everyone goes into one section?)

-- Not sure about this...

6. Which degree has more international prestige ? (Does columbia's ivy status really matter that much?)

-- Again, not sure, but I would think either name gets you far as long as you take initiative!

Hope that's somewhat helpful... I wish I had gotten into GSPP so I'm sure that biased view comes through, but maybe better luck next year! Good luck w/your decision.