9 graduate students. Isn't that too many for a prof to mentor?

[kobie]

I am in the process of reapplying and I have also contacted a POI. I like his research fields and his well-equipped lab. His publication record is also very impressive.

However, the only thing that bugs me is that he has up to 9 grad students that he is currently mentoring.

I wonder if he even spend enough time with each of his current student. If I join his lab, is it a good idea after all?

How many students do your professors have? If you are in this situation, does he/she spend enough time with you on your work?

I post in this subforum because I would like to hear you guys-current grad students talk about your own experience when working with professor who has to handle many students.

[timuralp]

However, the only thing that bugs me is that he has up to 9 grad students that he is currently mentoring.

I wonder if he even spend enough time with each of his current student. If I join his lab, is it a good idea after all?

It is hard to judge this. You may want to consider contacting some of the current students (before or after being accepted, depending on field etiquette) and ask how they interact with this person. It could be that the prof makes time for each one of them to talk for an hour every week or it could be more of a tiered setup. Further, this also depends on what you're looking and that may not be clear until you have some experience of working with different advisors or even just one advisor.

How many students do your professors have? If you are in this situation, does he/she spend enough time with you on your work?

I know of professors who have 15-17 graduate students and others that have 3 and anything in between. The number of students is not the only thing that determines their availability. Faculty are busy people that attend meetings, sometimes do consulting, teach, apply for grants, and often have a life outside of school. I am aware of one professor with 15 students who spends an hour with each of them every week. I don't know how he does it, but I guess it's possible.

[kobie]

Thanks for your reply Timuralp,

I guess I should contact his students to see how they interact with him. But I cannot find the emails of the grad students on the faculty site. Should I ask him about this upfront?

So one hour for each student per week is a norm. I wonder if this is even enough to for the update on the student's project progess and mentoring.

[anthropologygeek]

If he has nine current and assume it takes 5 years to obtain the phd he takes on average 2 a year which isn't that much.

[kobie]

If he has nine current and assume it takes 5 years to obtain the phd he takes on average 2 a year which isn't that much.

Sorry but I don't get what you mean. Actually among those 9 students, not all of them are pursuing PhD. I believe there are about 4-5 in the master program.

[ScreamingHairyArmadillo]

So one hour for each student per week is a norm. I wonder if this is even enough to for the update on the student's project progess and mentoring.

I have so far had 1 hour meetings every week and do find updates rather long winded, but I also send my advisor emails throughout the week when I think of questions or find relevant papers. This keeps the conversation somewhat focused. Granted I just started and haven't finalized my project; I'm still at the "What the hell is this? Can you explain this?" stage. I figure once I am analyzing data, the meetings will be quite focused.

[timuralp]

Thanks for your reply Timuralp,

I guess I should contact his students to see how they interact with him. But I cannot find the emails of the grad students on the faculty site. Should I ask him about this upfront?

I did that when I visited schools. It's a perfectly legitimate question: how do you typically interact with your students and what are the expectations?

So one hour for each student per week is a norm. I wonder if this is even enough to for the update on the student's project progess and mentoring.

The one hour thing is true in CS (still, there are exceptions). It may be different in your discipline. Is there anyone at your school you could ask about how their typical advising is going? Do you have any feel for what kind of advisor you're looking for: more hands off or more breathing down your neck to get things done? Answering that question could also help you.

[UnlikelyGrad]

I am in the process of reapplying and I have also contacted a POI. I like his research fields and his well-equipped lab. His publication record is also very impressive.

However, the only thing that bugs me is that he has up to 9 grad students that he is currently mentoring.

I wonder if he even spend enough time with each of his current student. If I join his lab, is it a good idea after all?

How many students do your professors have? If you are in this situation, does he/she spend enough time with you on your work?

I post in this subforum because I would like to hear you guys-current grad students talk about your own experience when working with professor who has to handle many students.

A lot of profs I've met with large labs have one or more postdocs working for them. In this case, the postdocs handle a lot of the day-to-day interaction with the grad students.

Some of the profs here with large groups do weekly group meetings, but only meet with individual students once a month or so--the rest of the time, they get by with email and/or 5-minute conversations when they pass in the hall...

[rising_star]

Note: I'm not in the lab sciences so your mileage my vary.

Thanks for your reply Timuralp,

I guess I should contact his students to see how they interact with him. But I cannot find the emails of the grad students on the faculty site. Should I ask him about this upfront?

So one hour for each student per week is a norm. I wonder if this is even enough to for the update on the student's project progess and mentoring.

When I got to my program (social sciences), I was one of 14 of my advisor's students. Now (in my third year) that number is 9-10. We don't meet with him for an hour a week unless it's absolutely necessary, like for dissertation revisions. My advisor is very responsive to emails, which is how most of interact with him. We also have group meetings about twice a month for two hours where people talk about what they're working on and bounce ideas off of everyone else.

I think the question of whether or not that is too many students really depends on how you, kobie, work. If you don't need lots of hands-on direction (which some might consider handholding), then the number of students probably doesn't matter. For reference, my advisor isn't the advisor for students that want someone to be really involved all the time in their project. Honestly, a lot of what we (his students) do is talk things out with one another. Many of us students are close friends with one another and we'll send each other relevant papers (granted, we all work broadly within the same subdiscipline but on completely different things), read grants and draft articles, and talk about research questions and directions.

So, kobie, in addition to emailing students that currently like with that potential advisor, you need to think long and hard about what it is you are looking for in an advisor and in an advising relationship.

[kobie]

Thanks for all of you guys' input!

I did that when I visited schools. It's a perfectly legitimate question: how do you typically interact with your students and what are the expectations?

Actually I am an international students and currently not in the US so I cannot meet him in person. I have only contacted with him through emails so far. He seems nice and eager to tell me about his work and his research lab. I will take note of that question and ask him about this. Thanks timuralp!

Granted I just started and haven't finalized my project; I'm still at the "What the hell is this? Can you explain this?" stage. I figure once I am analyzing data, the meetings will be quite focused.

I guess this will my biggest concern when I first start the program and I expect to have more interaction with the mentor during this time to make sure I am not behind.

A lot of profs I've met with large labs have one or more postdocs working for them. In this case, the postdocs handle a lot of the day-to-day interaction with the grad students.

Some of the profs here with large groups do weekly group meetings, but only meet with individual students once a month or so--the rest of the time, they get by with email and/or 5-minute conversations when they pass in the hall...

It is nice to know that the postdocs do interact with the grad students when the prof is not around. I hope that I can have at least weekly individual meeting with the prof at least during the initial period of my program. Many people in gradcafe complained about the lack of the interaction between them and their mentors. So I am kinda afraid if that situation will ever happen to me, especially when the prof has too many students to handle.

[kobie]

So, kobie, in addition to emailing students that currently like with that potential advisor, you need to think long and hard about what it is you are looking for in an advisor and in an advising relationship.

Do you have any feel for what kind of advisor you're looking for: more hands off or more breathing down your neck to get things done? Answering that question could also help you.

I expect responsiveness to students' inquiry from my mentor. At least have enough time to respond to the their students' emails and be willing to be updated and mentor on their work progress weekly. I guess what I am looking for is something between what you mean by hands off and breathing down my neck.

Isn't it too much to ask the the professor to care for his students and pay attention to their work progress in grad school?

[eucalyptus]

I'm currently being co-advised and am in two fairly big labs (7-10 grad students each + post-docs). I have a 45-minute weekly meeting with each of my advisors, and a 1.5 hour weekly lab meeting for each lab. I was concerned at the beginning that, as a first year PhD student, I would be at the bottom of the list for my advisors' time, but the reality is that they realize that new students need the most guidance, so I'm actually at the top. The 45 minute meetings are definitely enough for me - we have time for a progress update, asking a handful of questions, and usually talking through parts of the most interesting paper I've read in the previous week (I usually send it to my advisor a few days in advance so she can read it too). When I have small/practical/non-theoretical questions in between, I usually send them over email and get a quick response.

That being said, my Masters supervisor only had 2-3 grad students and he was terrible at finding time to meet with us. I requested a biweekly 30-minute meeting and he straight up refused, saying he didn't have time. I don't think that the number of students a professor has correlates with the time that they're able to spend on you - some profs are good at working with students, so they take on a lot, while others are just not good mentors.

[Eigen]

We have 8 students in our group now, and will probably take on one or two more this current year.

We don't have set personal meetings with our PI, but his office is literally right across the hall from mine- and he always makes time for us when we need to talk to him. It may just be a few minutes in passing, but I prefer lots of those types of contacts all the time to set hour meetings.

I usually set up a long meeting with him once a month or so for long term planning, but all the other stuff we get done at group meetings and throughout the day. Most days, I drop in on him 3 or 4 times, some days we don't talk at all.

The number of students isn't what matters, it's how much importance the adviser places on being there for his students.

[rising_star]

I expect responsiveness to students' inquiry from my mentor. At least have enough time to respond to the their students' emails and be willing to be updated and mentor on their work progress weekly. I guess what I am looking for is something between what you mean by hands off and breathing down my neck.

Isn't it too much to ask the the professor to care for his students and pay attention to their work progress in grad school?

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, kobie. You don't need to tell us what it is you are looking for. You need to make what you expect/want clear to potential advisors and then ask them if they are willing to meet those expectations.

As an example, I would be beyond annoyed if my advisor required weekly updates on my progress. Complete updates on my research, coursework, and grant writing happen no more than twice a semester, which is good by me. What I'm saying is that I couldn't work with someone that required weekly individual meetings, and I made sure that none of the advisors I applied to work with did that. (And, btw, be open to the fact that your idea of what you want and how often you want to meet may change while you're in graduate school.)

That being said, my Masters supervisor only had 2-3 grad students and he was terrible at finding time to meet with us. I requested a biweekly 30-minute meeting and he straight up refused, saying he didn't have time. I don't think that the number of students a professor has correlates with the time that they're able to spend on you - some profs are good at working with students, so they take on a lot, while others are just not good mentors.

This is sooooo true. My MA advisor had two students and was no more available to meet than my current advisor, who has 9 or 10 students, is. Professors have lots of responsibilities besides mentoring graduate students.

[fuzzylogician]

Just to add to what everyone has been saying, in my department the culture is such that meeting with students is considered to be the professors' main job (which is not to say that they don't serve on assorted committees, write grants, teach, do their own research and try to have a life..). We are not assigned just one advisor, rather we are encouraged to work with whoever we want on our different projects. I currently have three weekly 1-hour meetings with 3 professors and I attend one 2-hour lab meeting where a group of us working with one professor present our current work and bounce ideas off each other. Every other week or so I meet with a 4th professor (different ones), as the need arises. All of my professors meet with about 10-20 students every week. How things are done may vary from department to department and from professor to professor, and this is something you, OP, should ask both POIs and their current students about.