Literacy and Grad Students

[excel]

Haha!

To be honest, I wasn't trying to offend anyone in the first few responses. I was trying to make some funny remarks to bring my point to light in an amusing manner. Maybe it was another instance of the internet not communicating the wry smile on my face as I razzed my fellow freakers-out.

Anyway, this has gotten a bit out of hand. I made my point three pages ago, and if it's going to cause excel's undies (which seem horribly afflicted by static cling) to continue to bundle, I don't want her (?) to burst a vein in her (?) eyeball trying to formulate semi-logical responses to my jabs.

My original point is pretty clear: People who use textspeak appear stupid to me, and they possibly appear stupid to others as well. If that is okay with you, then that is your choice, and you're welcome to make it in all future communications on this forum.

My second, and much more important point is: Some potential/grad students really need to learn to take themselves less seriously. This kind of attitude, especially when combined with emotional fragility or feelings of entitlement, will be harmful to you, to your colleagues, and to academia as a whole. Nobody owes you anything, and we are not required to think, much less tell you repeatedly, how great you are. If you need that kind of reassurance, or if people need to walk on eggshells around you, HistoryGirl is right -- you have chosen the wrong line of work.

If you were just trying to be funny and not offensive, I dont have any problem with it. But, your posts came across as offensive, and I am not the only one who thought so. It is surprising that you do not see that even now.

If you are referring to me in your 2nd point, I have had a successful start in academia. I hope you have had similar success, but I doubt it from your remarks. No, I do not think I need some random person in the street to tell me whether I am great or not. I only value the opinion of certain people, and you are not among them Minnesotan; I dont think this should come as a surprise to you at this point though. And, this is just a fact, not a jibe at you.

Yes, I agree this thing has gotten out of hand.

[pointedears]

I realize you weren't. I meant a general 'I' and a general 'you', there and all along this thread. Also, I think the problem is having different philosophies in life. Someone does this in real life, they get it back. I don't laugh at anyone's expense, and I prefer if nobody does so at mine. I really think it is about your inner self. Not trying to put anyone down here, but you are less tempted to get kicks from laughing AT others when you're a happy person and less bitter with life overall.

[excel]

I really don't know what the fuss is about. Point one, if you are opposed to the idea of chatspeak, say so and move on. The thread is for discussing the same. It is not called 'attack the text speakers'.

Exactly.

[excel]

In fact, I feel like repeating my main point again:

I will not tolerate nonsense...and being drawn out of a situation where I was trying to be of help to another member, and being targetted time and again with snide remarks over the trivial matter of use of "u" strikes me as such...

[luvalicious]

However, in the originial post, he clearly came across as demanding that I write in a certain way. Do you disagree?

I do. In the original post, he was asking you a question. He might even have been insulting you. He was not demanding that you write a certain way.

I am not saying that we have to be professional here or anything like that. It is not any lack of professionalism I am attacking...I am attacking his saying that the forum should be professional on one hand and being unprofessional on the other. Please go back and find where he talks about professionalism.

Fine, take out unprofessional and replace it with "impolite," and let me ask it again. An even better replacement might be "passive aggressive."

Regarding the rest of your quote, please read my original reply to historygirl again...I have made a clear point that when the writer does not have anything to benefit and is writing in a free forum, s/he need not feel obliged to take on the burden of making readers make read his/ her post. The burden is on the reader, not on the writer?

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I continue to disagree. Why would you write on a public forum if you do not care to be read? It sounds like a waste of time.

I wonder what you will think...when you see someone amble into your conference session in a short and old T-shirt (where everyone else is suited and booted), and discuss stuff with you...maybe you wont take him seriously.

I didn't know if this was addressed just to HistoryGirl, or all of us, but I don't think this is a useful analogy, and I think it truly does come down to forum (online or otherwise). Online, I don't know who you are, what your credential are, your age, any of that. I only have your words to go by, and if you write in a tone that is associated with those of a much younger age, I have no reason to think that you are otherwise, and no reason to take you seriously. I don't understand why anyone would deliberately write in a manner that one has to know will be disregarded by at least some people. It, however, does remain your right to do so.

[Minnesotan]

I realize you weren't. I meant a general 'I' and a general 'you', there and all along this thread. Also, I think the problem is having different philosophies in life. Someone does this in real life, they get it back. I don't laugh at anyone's expense, and I prefer if nobody does so at mine. I really think it is about your inner self. Not trying to put anyone down here, but you are less tempted to get kicks from laughing AT others when you're a happy person and less bitter with life overall.

Fair enough, but I tend to disagree on the last point. If you are too concerned with your honor or dignitas you're going to come off as a jerk. I prefer to laugh at myself, and laugh at others in equal measure. I think it is much healthier than getting all holier-than-thou every time someone dares make fun of you.

You can see how excel just won't let this go. It's because of her self-important attitude stemming from low self-esteem, evident by her repeating that she's doing so well in her academic career, and that everybody loves her in real life. The fact is that she's so terrified that something about her might be found funny by somebody else that anyone who makes a funny remark about her needs to be cut down to size, either through direct attack, or by implication (e.g. saying this is nonsense; or repeatedly insulting someone's intelligence by asking rhetorically if her point is so hard to understand, even though it's not a matter of comprehension, but a matter of disagreement).

Luckily excel has now put her "main point" in bold font for us (twice), and has stated it explicitly three times. Maybe through further repetition she can brainwash us all into believing she's right. =)

[excel]

Minnesotan, it is a waste of my time to argue with you. However, if any of you care to go back to the original thread where Minnesotan made his original insulting remark, you will see that the two main persons between whom the conversation was being held at that point were both offended by Minnesotan's post.

by the way, minnesotan, regarding "not letting go"...persistence is considered one of the most important virtues in academia...at least in the scientific world...you are just displaying your ignorance of what it takes to win in research.

[pointedears]

Fair enough, but I tend to disagree on the last point. If you are too concerned with your honor or dignitas you're going to come off as a jerk. I prefer to laugh at myself, and laugh at others in equal measure. I think it is much healthier than getting all holier-than-thou every time someone dares make fun of you.

There's a difference I think. I would be ok with someone making fun of what I am wearing. I will not however be fine with someone calling me illiterate. I guess everyone has various degrees of self respect and what they will be ok with. Anyways, by that definition I would be a jerk. I am just happy that I will be a jerk who's content with life and nice to others.

[excel]

luvalicious, and do you see nothing wrong with someone coming in and insulting a person who is in the process of helping someone else for no personal benefit?

[historygirl]

It is true that I am very focused (ok, stressed) on selecting the best offer right now, so I probably find Minnesotan's diversion to a relatively trivial matter more annoying than I would have otherwise done.

I will not try to change your opinion about my maturity and "faintness of heart" because it (your opinion) is of no consequence really. The people in my field who know me already know whether I am mature or not etc.

I have already spent significant time in academia...and quite successfully, if I may add. But, thanks for your advice. Since you were nice enough to give me an advice, let me give you a couple. Here goes: 1) To be successful in academia, one needs to strive for depth in one's thinking. 2) One should not jump to conclusions.

I wonder what you will think...when you see someone amble into your conference session in a short and old T-shirt (where everyone else is suited and booted), and discuss stuff with you...maybe you wont take him seriously.

Thanks for the laugh!

And, to be sure, if someone wears an old T-shirt and shorts when everyone else is wearing suits, then they shouldn't expect to be taken as seriously. Them's the breaks.

I have no idea how "depth of understanding" even relates to a conversation about textspeak. You should also note that I did not jump to conclusions about you. I waited until you had thrown a sufficient hissy fit. To me, stomping, whining, name-calling=immaturity. If you're on a par with your fellow academics, I'm glad you're happy. I'm also glad I don't share a field with you.

[Minnesotan]

you are just displaying your ignorance of what it takes to win in research.

Maybe the addition of textspeak would improve my thesis.

Or perhaps this conversation has nothing to do with research practices. It's hard to tell, since I'm so ignorant about the process.

[excel]

aha, I am happy to hear your opinion on the shorts and T-shirt guy...because that is one of the leading experts in my field I am talking about...if you would not take him seriously, then well...

now that I have put your viewpoint into proper perspective, I will happily dismiss everything you have said so far from my mind. I am glad too that you are not in my field...no offence, but we often need to cut out the frills and isolate the essence...dont think you would have been that great a fit...but I am sure you do stuff that agrees with you.

Well, all the best with your applications etc.

[luvalicious]

luvalicious, and do you see nothing wrong with someone coming in and insulting a person who is in the process of helping someone else for no personal benefit?

What does this question have to do with this thread? Or with what I asked?

[excel]

That was the context of the use of the "u" ...

Now, do you see nothing wrong with someone coming in and insulting a person who is in the process of helping someone else for no personal benefit?

[historygirl]

aha, I am happy to hear your opinion on the shorts and T-shirt guy...because that is one of the leading experts in my field I am talking about...if you would not take him seriously, then well...

now that I have put your viewpoint into proper perspective, I will happily dismiss everything you have said so far from my mind. I am glad too that you are not in my field...no offence, but we often need to cut out the frills and isolate the essence...dont think you would have been that great a fit...but I am sure you do stuff that agrees with you.

Well, all the best with your applications etc.

Aha! you have fallen into my clever trap!

Or maybe...I just basically said what anyone would say. I would think that any normal person would understand that if someone is a top expert in the field, they get a bit of a pass. Are you the top expert in your field? No? Then you get to follow conventions until you are. I also wasn't aware that proper English has been declared a "frill."

But I strongly suggest you test your hypothesis by attending the major conference in your field, during interview season, in a T-shirt and shorts.

[excel]

Your so-called trap...luv...had already made that point :wink:

so I already knew that, but you did not see my point. This makes me happier. You will see my point only if you connect back to my point on "burden".

Well, all the best...I should not leave our conversation without giving you a happy face should I?

[Minnesotan]

Your so-called trap...luv...had already made that point :wink:

so I already knew that, but you did not see my point. This makes me happier. You will see my point only if you connect back to my point on "burden".

Well, all the best...I should not leave our conversation without giving you a happy face should I?

After reading your most recent posts, I am not convinced you are in grad school, let alone out of grade school.

By the way, your ellipses filed a complaint with the union -- they're being overworked.

[excel]

No, I am going to attend grad school this fall...but, even as an undergrad, I already have significant contribution & participation in academia...

now, having trouble with my ellipsis are you?

[excel]

By the way, Minnesotan, we talked a lot about me...but, how about you? Got any Ph.D. program offer yet?

[historygirl]

Your so-called trap...luv...had already made that point :wink:

so I already knew that, but you did not see my point. This makes me happier. You will see my point only if you connect back to my point on "burden".

Well, all the best...I should not leave our conversation without giving you a happy face should I?

Wow. Just wow. My comment "Aha!" etc. was, well, making fun of what you had said. I wasn't making a point with that. Sorry to disturb your deep thinking and all.

And yes, Minnesotan, please allow excel to compare her field with our phenomenally overcrowded one. In return, she can attend a grad history seminar and try to keep up. But only if we can watch.

[luvalicious]

That was the context of the use of the "u" ...

Now, do you see nothing wrong with someone coming in and insulting a person who is in the process of helping someone else for no personal benefit?

The context of the use of "u" is not the point of the thread, nor is it the point of my post. I don't understand why every time this thread starts going in the direction of an actual debate/intelligent exchange of viewpoints, you keep dragging it back to you and your presumably hurt feelings in the face of your altruism, or passively-aggressively insulting someone. This thread is not about what I think about the exchange between you and other members in the other thread. In fact, this thread is really not about you at all. It's about words, not manners.

[excel]

The context of the use of "u" is not the point of the thread, nor is it the point of my post. I don't understand why every time this thread starts going in the direction of an actual debate/intelligent exchange of viewpoints, you keep dragging it back to you and your presumably hurt feelings in the face of your altruism, or passively-aggressively insulting someone. This thread is not about what I think about the exchange between you and other members in the other thread. In fact, this thread is really not about you at all. It's about words, not manners.

sorry, but I will not be participating in this debate any more...the only time this thread ever went in a proper direction was, in my opinion, from historygirls's first post till before Minnesotan posted again ...and, one side cannot have insulted the members of the opposite side and then say what you have said here...

stay happy

[excel]

Now, you have me curious, is the field of history overcrowded? I would not know. (I am serious in asking this question).

I think I will pass that offer of watching a history seminar, but you are welcome to attend one of my presentations

[luvalicious]

and, one side cannot have insulted the members of the opposite side and then say what you have said here...

I have absolutely no idea what you mean, but that's been the trend, it seems. You certainly seem to have a different idea of debating than I do.

[bgk]

... we're all adults here, so I don't want to lock this thread. Instead, a quick reminder, we have all have to "be nice", by which I mean respect everyone's right to an opinion, and in the best academic tradition, right to debate and disagree with the opinions of others. Provided we can do this without insult, everything should be fine.