moving with partner concerns

[engguy]

OK, here's a question that's sort of the opposite of the thread below on long-distance relationships.

I have a partner and will be entering a PhD program in the fall. There's one school I really like, and was out for a visit last week. However, my partner has heard rumors -- which I can confirm, to some extent -- that the social life of the program is really centered around who's in the program, so that partners are pretty much shunted off to the side or steered towards other non-partners in any social setting. I can also already see that socializing will be a big part of the scene, and I will be tempted / compelled to take part in it.

There's another program much closer to where we already live. My partner could to some extent maintain a social life that's in place, and as we already have some friends in the town and program, the transition will certainly be easier.

We just finished having a long talk about this, and discussed the difficulties we'd face at the first program from a social standpoint. I pointed out that it's been my experience that every program is like this to a certain extent -- PhD students always flock together and partners always feel a bit left out -- though it may be more pronounced in this one. So we will have to work hard to strike a balance. And there will inevitably be times when I am immersed in that world, and my partner will have to be patient.

So, the question -- and let's assume that the programs are exactly equal, and that my partner is not pressuring me in either direction -- what would you do? And have you had any experience with this, and how have you dealt with it? Any experiences you'd like to share / advice would be welcome.

Thanks :!:

[StarvingStudentYeah]

It's hard to assume that both schools are exactly equal since you really seem to suggest that you like the one in a new place better.

If I DID assume that, then I'd say why move far away - go closer. I don't believe that's the case for you though.

That said, I'd say go to the program that you feel in your gut is the one for you. I can't imagine anyone being shunned in any graduate setting because you have a partner. The fact is that some grad students are married, seriously involved, etc - it's not undergrad anymore after all. Yes, the youngest single ppl may group together, but their socialization schedule and reality should not in any way harm or impede you. There will be another group for people who are significantly involved. I just can't see this as that big of issue. Just because "some people" have felt like it was an issue does not mean that you will. At every grad program there are people who have this or that issue. You'll have some, but you'll not know what they are until you go.

I have to say I feel like you'd get along fine.

Good luck, I hope whatever you do rocks your socks!

[jaw17]

On the other hand, consider that if you're the only one in the relationship pursuing the holy grail of a tenure-track position, there's a very good chance that he'll need to compromise on location again..and again, and again. So from an "equity" perspective, I would definitely think about compromising on the programs this time around, all else being (sort of) equal. That said, if program 1 is ranked signficantly higher, that might give you (and by extension, him) more geographic flexibility later on.

Just my worthless two cents.

[engguy]

@starving:

Yes, you're probably right. We'll be fine. The problem though is not a bunch of single students running around in packs; in fact most of the grads are coupled, but there are still a great deal of male-oriented bull sessions and wives / partners are left to their own devices. Again, I don't think it would be categorically different anywhere else, but here it seems pretty pronounced.

@jaw:

The reason I didn't mention the rankings is that the program closer to home IS in fact ranked higher; yet my gut is pointing towards the more distant one. This is just one of the plus/minus categories for each, but I didn't want this to devolve into a discussion about rankings. To me it's not that important. But I hadn't thought of the "compromise" angle -- something to think about. Thanks.

Well, I'm visiting the closer one today, so wish me luck.

[silencio1982]

i forget where i read this, but since i am also dragging my partner to a new place 400-something miles away where we know nobody so i can pursue a Ph.D., it stuck out to me- the suggestion was that it may make things easier for you and your partner to be on the same schedule-- or as close as possible. thus, treat your grad school duties as a 9-5 job when you can. obviously there will be times when this isn't possible, but the more you can carve out separate time and make non-grad school related friends with your significant other, the less that person will resent when you do from time to time get caught up in the grad student cult. i think you can balance a serious relationship with your grad student friends-- for example, do the happy hour thing with your cohort a couple of times a week, but head home afterwards- try to get your work done during the week or at least save one weekend day for non-grad school pursuits. pretty common sense ideas.

as starving pointed out, these are adults, and people should respect you for wanting to put time into your relationship, and it's actually not that difficult if you make it a priority. there will definitely be times when conflict arises- in general, though, i think it is manageable, especially if you have already talked about it and are both aware of the sacrifices. BUT- if the culture of the department is generally negative towards or not supportive of serious relationships, i would be wary. especially when moving to a new place and trying to make new friends, which are hard enough emotionally for the non-grad school person, you getting sucked into the good old boys club (especially when recognizing that you would be tempted to do so) could get old for your partner pretty fast.

i think in the end you have to know yourself and know what will work for your relationship. for me i think living a bit of a distance away from campus and trying to separate family from grad school (and having some non-grad school friends) will work to my (and my SO's) advantage. i am realistic and know sometimes grad school will suck me in, and my SO understands that, but it doesn't need to be that way all the time.

[crustaceangirl]

This is an issue that I've thought about as well. My partner and I are already committed to moving far away from where we live now. Ultimately, I was torn between two programs, and I ended up choosing the one that's driving distance from where my partner's parents (and some friends) live. Since I felt the two options I was considering were both good, it seemed fair to let his preference determine where we'd go. (The city we chose also has more employment opportunities for him.) My partner is a pretty introverted person, so I am concerned that he'll feel socially isolated when we move and leave our friends behind. I think having the options to visit his friends and family in a neighboring state on a semi-regular basis will be helpful. I've talked to grad students at my program about balancing school/friends with time for a romantic partner. They assure me that all the students are welcoming and that I should feel free to bring my partner to social events, but I do want to make sure that he and I are able to have some "separate" friends, so he won't feel like his entire social life is dependent on me.

He tells me I'm overthinking this and that he'll be fine, of course. But I don't want to make things harder than they need to be.

[GringaTica]

This is something my partner (husband/fiance, depending on the country) and I talk about a lot. I'm American but he's international, with just a high school degree and basic English skills and we're currently living out of the country. We'll be heading to UC Irvine in the Fall,a s they've offered almost enough fellowship $$ for us to live off of. But we're constantly worrying about ESL classes for him, he wants to study at least part-time (get his BA/BS), but sadly full-time study isn't an option for him, or kitty, he, and I won't make it. It's a lot of pressure for him, as abroad I've been the primary income source while he's been studying English, and suddenly it'll be on his shoulders, as well as the whole immigration thing.

I'm also concerned from a social standpoint - it's a new lace for both of us, but I'll be meeting people from day one through the program. I'm worried about the people's attitudes towards him (especially education level, which seems a concern for friends, family back home, but has never been a problem for us here....), as well as his just feeling left out in social settings (language, education, etc.).

[engguy]

@Gringatica:

Not sure what your husband's background is -- from your handle I'm guessing Latino, but that's just a guess -- no matter; whatever his background, you should know that one good thing is you're moving to one of the most diverse and tolerant areas in all of the US, so that should be some comfort. I don't know about UC-Irvine in particular, but by and large ESL classes should be very plentiful and relatively cheap. It's a pretty booming educational industry throughout California.

As for the social thing, I don't think there's any getting around that, no matter what your partner's profile is. My wife and I opted for the more distant option, and to her credit she seems eager to start somewhere new and face new challenges and make new friends. Still, I'm worried. There's a good thread about this stuff from the Chronicle forum:

http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/t ... 93.30.html

Good advice there about keeping in touch and making space for the relationship, etc.

Finally, my wife is International too; different, because she's quite fluent and highly educated. But if you have any questions about the immigration process, pm me and I can try to help. We've already been through it.

[maroonwings]

This is something my partner (husband/fiance, depending on the country) and I talk about a lot. I'm American but he's international, with just a high school degree and basic English skills and we're currently living out of the country. We'll be heading to UC Irvine in the Fall,a s they've offered almost enough fellowship $$ for us to live off of. But we're constantly worrying about ESL classes for him, he wants to study at least part-time (get his BA/BS), but sadly full-time study isn't an option for him, or kitty, he, and I won't make it. It's a lot of pressure for him, as abroad I've been the primary income source while he's been studying English, and suddenly it'll be on his shoulders, as well as the whole immigration thing.

I'm also concerned from a social standpoint - it's a new lace for both of us, but I'll be meeting people from day one through the program. I'm worried about the people's attitudes towards him (especially education level, which seems a concern for friends, family back home, but has never been a problem for us here....), as well as his just feeling left out in social settings (language, education, etc.).

I'm also going to UC Irvine in the fall, with my husband and cat (although we're both US citizens, so we don't really have that problem). Will you be living in the on-campus housing? Since there is housing specifically for families, hopefully it'll be easy for your partner to meet other students' significant others.

I don't know if you've seen this, but UCI offers some ESL classes. Here is the website: http://unex.uci.edu/international/. Maybe they have some sort of discount for spouses of students? There are probably less expensive options out there.

Feel free to send me a message if you want to talk about UCI

[virmundi]

Hi OP (original poster)! You have some very salient concerns, and I thought that I would share with you the advice that 100% of all tenured/tenure-track professors have given me.

The first is this: Once you start limiting yourself geographically, you may find that search committees on the post-PHD side of things will have serious reservations about your committment to live in new, strange places. This advice is mitigated significantly if the program that you choose has a significant placement rate from its program, but it is still a significant consideration.

The second piece of advice I've received over and over is to try and ensure that your spouse/SO/etc. is on board with the fact that you will do a PHD in one place, and then almost certainly move somewhere entirely different as a TT Professor. I've been reminded again and again that the only TT jobs available in my field when I get my PHD may well be Blizzard Community College, North Dakota or One Horse Town Technical College, Wyoming. The point is that if you can get into a *better* program by going to the more awkward place now, you may have a better shot at getting the job in the place where you'd actually LIKE to live for the rest of your life post-PHD (and if those are in North Dakota or Wyoming, then I apologize -- my intent is not to denigrate those places!)... It may be worth it to live in the awkward setting for the next 5-10 years so that you have a better shot at getting to that post-PHD dream job.

The job market is a complete mess anyhow, so there are no guarantees, but that is what my advisors and other professors have been drilling into my brain again and again!