Do professors write bad LORs?

[warpspeed]

This is just some wondering. I was fortunate enough to have one of my recommenders let me read his letter after he submitted them (something he doesn't normally do, he actually said he'd never done it before, but I think he wanted to alleviate some stress). I was exceptionally flattered with what he wrote. He said that another recommender (that was in our department) wrote something of the same caliber. I began to get to thinking. After all the talk of "rockstar LORs" and etc, do people really send in negative LORs? I don't mean typos or poorly written, but letters that recommend against admission?

[apieceofroastbeef]

This is just some wondering. I was fortunate enough to have one of my recommenders let me read his letter after he submitted them (something he doesn't normally do, he actually said he'd never done it before, but I think he wanted to alleviate some stress). I was exceptionally flattered with what he wrote. He said that another recommender (that was in our department) wrote something of the same caliber. I began to get to thinking. After all the talk of "rockstar LORs" and etc, do people really send in negative LORs? I don't mean typos or poorly written, but letters that recommend against admission?

From what I've read on The Chronicle forums (bad, bad soul/time sucking Classroom fora) professors will generally say no to a student if they can't recommend them highly. On the other hand, I've read some posts where the professors encountered a student that they didn't like or wouldn't go away and the others chimed in saying "damn them with faint praise!"-- meaning that the letter wouldn't say "I don't recommend this student" overtly, but instead lists generic, vague attributes that obviously say that "this student isn't special at all."

I'm worried that my professors did this. I got to read one of mine as well, though I didn't ask to, and I'm not sure it made me out as anything wonderful.

[Andi Bo Bandi]

This is just some wondering. I was fortunate enough to have one of my recommenders let me read his letter after he submitted them (something he doesn't normally do, he actually said he'd never done it before, but I think he wanted to alleviate some stress). I was exceptionally flattered with what he wrote. He said that another recommender (that was in our department) wrote something of the same caliber. I began to get to thinking. After all the talk of "rockstar LORs" and etc, do people really send in negative LORs? I don't mean typos or poorly written, but letters that recommend against admission?

I think professors would decline to write your LOR before they would write a letter that recommends against admission. One of my professors once told me that writing recommendation letters is part of his job-I kind of wonder if it could potentially be bad for the professor if he/she decided to write a negative letter since the institution you got your undergraduate from wants its students to succeed professionally (thus, reflecting positively on the school)...?

[wtncffts]

I think professors would decline to write your LOR before they would write a letter that recommends against admission. One of my professors once told me that writing recommendation letters is part of his job-I kind of wonder if it could potentially be bad for the professor if he/she decided to write a negative letter since the institution you got your undergraduate from wants its students to succeed professionally (thus, reflecting positively on the school)...?

Of course, if you write a positive letter and the student goes on to do poorly, that doesn't exactly reflect well on the school, no?

[ZeChocMoose]

After all the talk of "rockstar LORs" and etc, do people really send in negative LORs? I don't mean typos or poorly written, but letters that recommend against admission?

Unfortunately, yes. I have read some. In my experience, there were not a lot, but I think I have encountered at least 10 "non-recommendations" and that is probably after reading roughly 1,000 recommendations. Some of these were for grad school apps and some of these were for undergraduates trying to get into a particular major. None of them said I do not recommend this student for admission, but either they said nothing of substance besides so-so was in my class and they received X grade (I kid you not two sentences!) or they "damned them with faint praise" as catherinian has said. The later is definitely worse and a couple I will remember to this day because their comments just stick with you!

Honestly, I conclude that most professors will decline if they cannot write a strong recommendation for the person.

[Andi Bo Bandi]

Of course, if you write a positive letter and the student goes on to do poorly, that doesn't exactly reflect well on the school, no?

fair enough

[AcceptanceLetter]

I just read through a stack of applications, and encountered very few 'bad' LORs.. I totally agree with the "damn them with faint praise" statement. The worst LORs painted the applicants as kind of mediocre. Furthermore, if profs had anything bad to say at all, they would be very sneaky about it, and then sugar-coat their criticisms to no end.

e.g. "X had some trouble at first, but after a few iterations finally..."

or

"Y struggled a bit at .... However, as a person, she is great to be around."

That said, I found that professors were more damning in the multiple choice section of evaluations (where they indicate what percentile you were, or whether or not they would strongly recommend / recommend / not recommend you). There were a few profs who wrote glowing recommendation letters, but indicated that their student was say, in the top 25% (as opposed to top 1%, 5%, 10%...). In one case, I heard that the admissions board then called the recommender about the discrepancy between his LOR and the indicated percentile, and extracted the (ugly) truth.

So yeah, not all profs will turn you down if they don't think too highly of you.

[composser]

From my experience most admissions people who read LORs, mostly overlook general praise (e.g. s/he is one of my best students, I have been extremely impressed etc. etc.) Mediocre of even mean LORs are just too rare.

The best LORs have two main features:

1) Comparison superlatives (e.g. level of _____ far surpasses all students in my 20-40 year career as a professor)

2) Talking very specifically about your work and accomplishment

[Rustin]

I agree with everyone so far, particularly with the damning with faint praise or the "student got X grade in my very difficult class" type of recommendation.

My roommate though got a bad letter. In high school, he worked in a neurology lab at an Ivy League college as essentially an intern. He did some cool stuff but always under the supervision of graduate students or the professor. He asked the professor for a recommendation for colleges. He wrote in the letter that my roommate was "talented but not exceptionally or unusually so." Ouch. He found out because he applied for a scholarship through a local organization and they told him to rethink using this professor- too late though, unfortunately.

He got into a mix of colleges still (not where the professor taught though) so it is worth a good laugh now; but back then, not so much.

For me, as I applied to over 10 PHD programs and a number of fellowships and scholarships, the key was to give plenty of notice (6-8 weeks), supply an updated resume as well as the statement of purpose (even if it is just a draft) and work to get them on board with your goals. This way, in addition to whatever they were going to say about you, they can craft it to your statement and incorporate information on your resume if they see fit. It was easy for me since I had done research with them before and developed close relationships, but even so, taking those steps ensured a smooth process.

I would really hope a professor could just say no rather than write a bad recommendation.