Curious about life as a Ph.D. student

[BF1986]

Hi everyone,

I have followed here for a while, and while I feel like I have a grasp of the minutia of the application process, I still think I lack basis of knowledge about what life as a Ph.D. student is like.

I expect to research long hours and work very hard....very independently.

However, I have other questions:

1) Do you get summers "off?" I am quite certain you will be working, writing, etc....but is there time to breathe more in the summer time? Can you take your work home if you don't need to be in a hard science lab? I am looking at school about 90 minutes from my hometown, and I'd love to see my family on weekends whenever possible, see friends here whenever possible and maybe even sustain a new relationship.

2) Can you go home on breaks?

3) If the first 2 years of a 5 year Ph.D. is considered Master's work do things change? I expect the first 2 years will be research involvement, but mostly class work. The last 3 heavy writing.

Forgive me if these questions are naive. The schools I am looking at are a great fit, but I'd have the added benefit of only being 90 minutes from the people and places that have brought me a tremendous amount of joy and personal fulfillment- and that, in larger part, have helped to focus me academically.

Forgive me if these questions are naive.

Edited January 19, 2011 by BF1986

[newms]

I don't have the experience to be able to answer your questions fully, which are not naive - all of us outside of grad school wonder what it's like to be 'on the inside'. From what I've seen here is what I think I can say about your questions:

1) It depends. Most TAs are for around 9 months, while RAs are usually for 12 months - so if you're a TA you might have more free time in the summer, although I imagine that TAs use some of this time to work on their research, attend conferences, intern etc.

2) I imagine so, but I think it depends on whether you have a commitment to intern, or work in a lab etc. In either case I would imagine that you would have some free time - at least I hope so!

3) I understand that the first 2 years of a PhD program are comparable to Masters' level work since in many programs, people get the Masters' degree on the way to finishing the PhD.

If I'm off on this I hope a current grad student can correct me.

[XOwlfan]

I'm in a master's program presently and have worked alongside doctoral students and MA/Phd students as a TA and as an RA. The MA/PhD students hit the ground running--as they receive a stipend in our department and are required to give 20 hours a week to either teaching or research. Whether they have to do MORE than that (and whether they get time off over breaks) is determined by the person they work for. As a TA, I was fortunate to work for a professor who was extremely sensitive to our time requirement--however, I worked with someone who served as a TA for the same course under a different professor and she had an entirely different experience (working many more hours than her commitment required). Similarly, one professor in our department demanded that her RAs work full time for an entire month when classes were not in session (I'm not sure if they received extra pay for this or not...I hope so, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was not the case).

Research projects are like prized babies to professors--in my experience, it's not uncommon to get called at all hours of the night to adjust/fix something, to be expected to drop everything and rush to your adviser's side, etc. You'd swear life was hanging in the balance by the way some of them respond when it comes to their work. That being said, it's very important to make sure you find a mentor in the program who is sensitive to your growth and development. You will sacrifice a lot, and you want a mentor who appreciates the sacrifices you make.

[mandarin.orange]

I expect to research long hours and work very hard....very independently.

However, I have other questions:

1) Do you get summers "off?" I am quite certain you will be working, writing, etc....but is there time to breathe more in the summer time? Can you take your work home if you don't need to be in a hard science lab? I am looking at school about 90 minutes from my hometown, and I'd love to see my family on weekends whenever possible, see friends here whenever possible and maybe even sustain a new relationship.

2) Can you go home on breaks?

This depends on the rigor of your program, and your advisor's expectations. Try to source that out as much as possible from current grad students and your possible-advisor during visits and interviews. Ask lots of questions. For my part, if I could not answer "yes" to the two questions above, I would not be interested in such a program. I dropped one program once I read that PhDs were required to fully prepare 2 completely different research project proposals, present them, and have a committee decide which one to focus on for the next 3 years. That, to me, just seems an extraneous amount of prep work for something that gets dropped. Quality of life and balance are both important.

[timuralp]

The answer to all your questions is "depends". I'll try to explain it better.

1) Do you get summers "off?" I am quite certain you will be working, writing, etc....but is there time to breathe more in the summer time? Can you take your work home if you don't need to be in a hard science lab? I am looking at school about 90 minutes from my hometown, and I'd love to see my family on weekends whenever possible, see friends here whenever possible and maybe even sustain a new relationship.

First of all, it most likely depends on your field and your advisor. In my experience (read, my field and my advisor), I stayed to work on research every summer, but every summer I would take a couple of weeks off and have my vacation. The reason summers were/are important for me is because in the first two years you spend time on classes and summer is the time to do actual research. You may wonder why bother with research in the summer before you're in the PhD part and the reason is that most (not all, probably) programs and fields require some sort of proof of your research aptitude before admitting the student to PhD. In my program, it involves making an oral presentation of your own research project in front of three faculty members. Obviously, not having a completed research project makes the presentation much harder

Later on, students go on internships, vacations, etc. The only thing that matters is when the conference deadlines are. It's better to be in town for the deadlines, although, that's probably field dependent as well.

2) Can you go home on breaks?

Depends. If you have a deadline on that day, 'tis a lot harder. Otherwise, I've gone home on breaks (Christmas, Thanksgiving) and just made sure to keep my advisor up to date on my travel plans. You might be asked to do reviews/read papers/do some work over break, but in my case it was never overbearing.

3) If the first 2 years of a 5 year Ph.D. is considered Master's work do things change? I expect the first 2 years will be research involvement, but mostly class work. The last 3 heavy writing.

Depends on your advisor and program. My advisor's mantra was that I should get B+ in every class except for my core classes. Reason being that B+ is bare minimum and anything above shows that I'm spending too much time on classes and not enough on research. I have been doing research work, since the first semester. However, chances are you'll have no idea what you want to do for at least half a year and it's good to take that opportunity to explore the field and figure out what you're interested. Conveniently, it leaves more time for class work

As the previous poster said, ask the grad students, ask the faculty when you go for a visit and it will help you understand the dynamic. When you go for a visit, you're interviewing them, as much as they're interviewing you. Make the best of it.

[Sevi]

Quality of life and balance are both important.

I am so glad that you said this!! I've been reading posts on this forum for a few months and going through articles/blogs trying to get a grasp on what to expect from grad school. I understand grad school requires dedication, but I was terrified by everyone ONLY talking about researching and studying 24/7, declining physical and mental health from stress and being over-worked, and mentioning that when choosing which school to attend only the program matters, nothing else such as location and having a support system. A 5-7 year PhD program is a huge chunk of time in your life. Your LIFE.

I've been dedicated to education all my life and have not had a social life, many friends or a significant other because of my dedication. I am not okay with knowing the next 5-7 years in a program are going to force me to continue to make those sacrifices. Life is too short. What is a successful PhD going to mean later in life without someone to share life with?

I'm so glad that the OP asked these questions about breaks and vacations. And thanks to everyone who replied and help reassure me that a life is sustainable during grad school!

[TheOtherJake]

I've been dedicated to education all my life and have not had a social life, many friends or a significant other because of my dedication. I am not okay with knowing the next 5-7 years in a program are going to force me to continue to make those sacrifices. Life is too short.

I totally agree. For the past few years, my life (as a teacher) has been a sustained run of work, pressure, and more work, with barely enough time to sleep or eat. My well-being has suffered, and I find myself in a daze a lot of the time. I feel this has prepared me for the rigor of graduate school, but also, I hope very much there will be lifestyle changes.

When I had a vacation a short while ago, I started feeling human again for just a short while - actually enjoying some activities I used to enjoy, like reading and writing, and not having a headache 99% of the time. It was like finally getting rid of a long, stifling hangover. I imagine graduate school can be like that too, if you let it. Work is important, but so is living life. And balance probably makes you more mentally apt, anyway.

To quote Barbara Bush paraphrasing Ferris Bueller, "Find the joy in life, because as Ferris Bueller said on his day off, 'Life moves pretty fast; if you don't stop and look around once in a while, you're gonna miss it.'"

[caezar86]

I am so glad that you said this!! I've been reading posts on this forum for a few months and going through articles/blogs trying to get a grasp on what to expect from grad school. I understand grad school requires dedication, but I was terrified by everyone ONLY talking about researching and studying 24/7, declining physical and mental health from stress and being over-worked, and mentioning that when choosing which school to attend only the program matters, nothing else such as location and having a support system. A 5-7 year PhD program is a huge chunk of time in your life. Your LIFE.

I've been dedicated to education all my life and have not had a social life, many friends or a significant other because of my dedication. I am not okay with knowing the next 5-7 years in a program are going to force me to continue to make those sacrifices. Life is too short. What is a successful PhD going to mean later in life without someone to share life with?

I'm so glad that the OP asked these questions about breaks and vacations. And thanks to everyone who replied and help reassure me that a life is sustainable during grad school!

I've noticed this too, people talking about how they work 50-80+ hours a week, almost as a badge of honor or a point of pride (although I'm sure this is necessary for some programs), and while that may be fulfilling for some, I would hate it. I'd probably burn out within the semester on such a schedule.

In my experience as a Master's student working alongside other MA and Ph.D. students in the same program, it all depends on the professor. Mine is a bit more demanding, and doesn't really approve of taking breaks outside of the regular federal/staff holidays, with the exception of a week or two each year. Other profs don't care, and their students take upwards of 3 weeks/year in addition to holidays.

[TheDude]

I don't mind working harder than anyone else in a lab. However, my personal time is my personal time. Graduate school is very important to me, but so is personal growth and sharing life with someone. I never really understood why the 2 have to be at odds. With technology why can't work be brought home if needed? The Ph.D. is important, but so are loved ones and taking a time to share life with someone special. I knew a previous professor who fell in love during the beginning of the Ph.d and then had children and started a family in the final 2 years of writing the dissertation. I guess it gave this romantic some hope!

I think these are big questions I'm going to ask in interviews. I imagine it is going to be artful ground to tread.

Maybe I'm still a little green, but I'd imagine the Hard Science labs require you to be in a lab daily, whereas in the social sciences a lot of the work I have dealt with is videotaped, grant review, conference proposals, etc. I've been kind of used to reviewing literature for a study on the coast, using SPSS outside of the lab, etc. The typical dance of late night email exchanges and revisions emerge at the peak times, whereas the early time I put into the lab in non-peak times seemed to yield more free time.

Maybe it is really just about personal priorities? I mean I've always been stalwart in my commitment to really "being" with someone when I promise I will be despite whatever fires need to be put out. The same commitment goes to the lab. When I am there people know I am offline for 8-10 hours. I've always managed to juggle the two aspects of life.

However, with a budding romance that might end up as a 2 hour LDR weekend/vacations+summer thing, and close ties to family and good friends... I'm scared of loosing it. In fact, it is the only reoccurring nightmare I have!

Edited January 24, 2011 by musicforfun

[Eigen]

You get time off, it's not usually summers and breaks, though.

At least in most of the science programs, once you've picked a lab, it pretty much becomes a regular job- you work your 40-60 hours per week, and you get a week to three of vacation a year. To quote one of our professors "you get payed for 52 weeks of the year, you work 52 weeks of the year". When we have international students that want to go home for a month or so, they usually have to request to have their funding put on hold/stopped for that month. We have a few that go home for about 6 weeks at some point during the year, but they usually don't get payed while they're gone. My boss has offered for people to "not work the summer" before, but you'll have a huge pause in your work, and you don't get payed for 3 months.

It's a lot more flexible than a regular job, though, and a lot of it depends on what works best for you- if you like your weekends completely off, work longer days on the week. If you prefer more long breaks, work more 7 day weeks in the meantime.

Summer is usually considered "a good time to get research done", as is winter break. The other random, shorter breaks through the year... It just depends. I haven't taken off more than 5 day weekends or so since I started here, although I'll probably take off a week coming up this spring.

I think the people who talk about working 80+ hours per week are piling a lot into their work hours.

My schedule now is usually 8am-6pm (with a 10-90 minute lunch break) or so in the lab, about 4-10 hours sometime on the weekends, and nights and more on the weekends as my project needs it. I have some insane weeks when I'm juggling a few projects that I'm in at 7, work til 5, take a two hour break for dinner and go back to the lab until midnight. It all depends on your projects, whether you're close to a publication, a grant deadline, etc. I took off about 6 days for Christmas break, split out into two 5 day weekends, and I took a couple of days off for Thanksgiving as well.

A lot depends on how much of your work you can take with you- if I have data to work on, papers to write... My boss doesn't mind me doing that at home or on the road, as long as I stay in contact.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Eigen

[Eigen]

I think there's a definite difference from the hard sciences and not about the 9 mo vs 12 mo stipend... I don't know anyone that isn't on 12 month support, you have to ask to be knocked off for the summer- either we TA the summer labs, or we're in an RA position for our PIs.

But then the hard sciences are also a bit different in that RAs are mostly for our PIs, doing research towards our dissertations, as opposed to some of the other fields (social sciences, humanities) where you might have an RA position working for someone other than your committee chair, doing research not directly connected to yours.

Might also be the difference in 9 vs 12 month funding.

[Eigen]

You're in developmental psych? I'd imagine most of those programs would fall under the 12 month system, and I'd imagine most of the research would be quite hard to work on from home.

As for going home a few weekends a month, I managed that pretty nicely my first year (I live about 3 hours away), and my boss never really minded me leaving a bit early on a Friday to beat the traffic.

As my research has gotten more intense, I've gone back less and less.

From a personal standpoint, I'd urge you to try to separate your work from trips home- trying to work while you're back visiting friends and family tends to lessen both the enjoyment of the trip, and the amount of work you get done. I'm more a fan of working a couple of 7 day weeks in a row, and then taking a long weekend completely off. I also suggest trying to separate your work from home, if you can- especially if you have an office on campus. If I need to work, I come in to my office... If I'm home, I'm spending it with my family.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Eigen

[rising_star]

I'm a social sciences Ph.D. student so, none of this may be relevant depending on your discipline.

1) Do you get summers "off?" I am quite certain you will be working, writing, etc....but is there time to breathe more in the summer time? Can you take your work home if you don't need to be in a hard science lab? I am looking at school about 90 minutes from my hometown, and I'd love to see my family on weekends whenever possible, see friends here whenever possible and maybe even sustain a new relationship.

Not off, really. In the summer, I go to my field site (in another country) for several weeks to conduct research. I also teach a course in one of our summer sessions if given the option because income is a good thing. Even with doing both of those, I still have a few weeks to go home (across the country) to see my family and friends or to hang out in this city with friends or my partner.

Yes, there's time to start a new relationship, whether you do it in the summer or not. I did it and it's worked out fine. You just have to be good with time management and establish clear times for your relationship and time for schoolwork.

2) Can you go home on breaks?

Yes. I go home for Thanksgiving (sometimes), winter break (a week or two), and at some point during the summer for two weeks or so. Whether you have the money to do so is another question altogether. It helps that I don't have experiments in a lab that need to be monitored or a pet to worry about or find pet sitting for.

3) If the first 2 years of a 5 year Ph.D. is considered Master's work do things change? I expect the first 2 years will be research involvement, but mostly class work. The last 3 heavy writing.

This really varies by discipline. In my master's, I did a mix of coursework and research, which is the same thing I did in the first two years of my PhD. Only my final year of the PhD will be heavy writing, but again, my field site is in another country so it's not like I'm constantly collecting data to be analyzed.

Forgive me if these questions are naive. The schools I am looking at are a great fit, but I'd have the added benefit of only being 90 minutes from the people and places that have brought me a tremendous amount of joy and personal fulfillment- and that, in larger part, have helped to focus me academically.

The close proximity to family and friends may be more stressful than you think right now. I used to be about 75 minutes away from my family. What I found was that they expected me to be around a lot more often and doing family things and that it took some time to establish clear boundaries about when I could and could not drive down and do a family thing. They didn't understand that grad school isn't just a 9-5 job and that I had work to do at night and on the weekends sometimes.