HKS MPP Vs SIPA MPA

[devdoodle]

Hi all,

Need to decide between SIPA MPA (no funding) and HKS ($20,000 per year aid). I hope to work in the international development, maybe some dev consulting, WB development projects, NGOs/orgs working in dev countries on issues like economic growth etc. 

Since my partner is based in NYC, living costs are significantly reduced for me in NYC. Total direct costs at  66k at HKS (and after aid it would be 46k) vs. 76k at SIPA. HKS  has stated living costs incl books, personal, transport etc. to be around 30k. I'm also wondering how good an estimate is that. 

With HKS, they have a graduate loan system with good fixed interest rates and a loan repayment assistance program as well for those who end up in public service jobs. On the other hand, for SIPA, i would have to borrow a private loan with higher interest rates but I would save on indirect costs. 

Please share your experiences/advice. Feeling quite lost so would love to hear about your thoughts on these two programs. 

 

[HAlumni]

I think that both are low-paying job markets which don't justify getting into such high loans. If it was an MBA, my answer would be go for it because your expected income will cover the loans just fine. 

But MPP or MPA, either Harvard Kennedy School or Columbia, will give you a hard time with loan repayment, because your expected salary will be low.

Since you got into both Harvard and Columbia, why not try to improve your application and get a full scholarship at Princeton? You could use that money instead to invest, buy a house or something.

Life really is different and better if you are financially independent of those predatory loans, which you can never get rid of. 

[devdoodle]

@HAlumni Hi, thanks SO much for getting back to me. I really appreciate it. I do want to ask - how low do MPP grads' salaries tend to be?

Also, I completely get what you're saying but my interest has always been more focused on the development and policy-making side so honestly, I've never been interested in or even considered an MBA. I know that those jobs pay well but I know for sure I will be miserable and I dont want to do that 🤕

I do want to add more context as everyone has very different trajectories/priorities -  my husband's on board with paying off my grad school loan since it fits into our long-term plan. He's a physician so the financial aspect seems doable (I do want to pay off as much as I can on my own but not sure what will be possible) but I'm trying to be smart about not racking up unnecessary debt.  Plus, being international limits my options for work during this time, so grad school seems like the best way to keep moving forward right now. I've already spent a year doing nothing and another gap year doesn't seem like a great. (This is definitely a factor but not my main reason for pursuing graduate study as I'm genuinely interested in this field and have relevant experience as well).

Princeton might be a bit of a stretch, given my low quant scores, and I also don't want another year slipping by without doing something.

I'm still weighing everything out, but the debt aspect is a HUGE concern and I completely agree with you about financial independence. I've been quite debt averse since childhood and my partner and I do not have any debt on us right now (very grateful for that). I'd like to keep it that way as much as possible of course. Based on my calculations and after factoring in savings and other sources/finaid, the total debt for the two-year program would be around 85k with a 5-6% interest rate.

The employment stats do not look too promising which is seriously stressing me out. I was hoping for more aid/scholarship but I haven't had much luck. If you have any other insights based on my situation, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks again for your input! 

Also, so sorry for rambling on with my long story and adding in maybe too much detail. I just want to give more background.

[HAlumni]

First, "developed work" is very different than what it seems. For a real job in a development institution, you will be competing mostly with PhDs in economics or people with masters degrees but very high level quantitative skills, like statistics, experience doing randomized control trials, Stata, R, Python, micro and macroeconomics, etc. And you'll have to demonstrate really specific skills, like advanced Excel, fluency in at least 3 languages, and specifically the willingness to move and work in some remote developing country, etc. 

Neither the Harvard MPP or Columbia is notorious for developing those quant skills at an advanced level, unless you make a priority to make your own specialization in those courses. 

Point being to get a job in development. There are operational and administrative stuff you could find, but you'll realize that you didn't have to go to an elite school for that, but your competition will have elite credentials, nonetheless. 

Thus, the reason why many end up with low paying jobs in NGOs, etc.... 

The point of the MBA is that you would be "miserable" a few years, but then you can have access to high level managerial positions in development institutions with no problem at all, because in reality, you enter development through quantitative skills but end up with a job that's practically management anyway, because you'll be managing teams and hiring the quant specialists. Unless you take the development economics research route, but that's mostly for the PhDs or the highly quantitative skilled masters degrees, like the HKS MPA/ID. 

OK, so my response now will take into account more personal important variables that I did not address before. Sorry if I'm too honest and direct. 

In my experience, once the master degree starts in August, by Thanksgiving most people already broke up with their boyfriends/girlfriends back home and have new partners after spending so much time with their new classmates. In addition, most of the people I know that entered the master's degree already being married, eventually got divorced because their lives and perspectives changed so much, and SPECIALLY JOB OPPORTUNITIES IN OTHER COUNTRIES OR STATES, made it impossible to maintain the marriage, UNLESS they lived together throughout the master's degree and were not at a distance, during the master's or afterwards. Of those who got divorced, some got remarried, eventually, but not all. 

Now, with a grandma's tone and perspective, I'd say the root of your decision is not about schools or money. It's about keeping your marriage. Grandma always says, don't leave your spouse alone in another place for so much time. Even if you get too see each other constantly between NYC and Boston. Also, even though your husband is on board with helping with paying for school, the truth is that men tend to rescent you if they pay for your things and the relationship changes. Also, if something were to happen, you might be stuck with paying that amount of money on your own (life can change in many ways without expecting it). 

In conclusion, I'd say wisdom is required here. Not calculations about tuition. I'd stay with your husband and go to school in the same city. Your job prospects will be the same as HKS, but you can focus on finding a job in NYC. Otherwise, moving to DC or another country for work might compromise your relationship, as I have already seen it happen to so many people. 

Maybe it's not the answer you want to hear, but believe me, lots of women who advance in their careers would die to have a husband and not still be struggling to find a partner when they're reaching into their 30's, 40's-50's, no matter how successful they are. (Sorry, I'm assuming you are a woman. If not, what I'm saying here still applies). 

MPP salaries will probably be around $35,000-$70,000. Then take out taxes to really have an idea. Those who have higher salaries (above $100,000) is because they went into the private sector. Thus, my whole point of the MBA to begin with. 

Anyway, in your case relationship and family >>>>> than HKS. 

And yes, you need to be working or studying and cannot afford to do nothing because that will make your job prospects even worse in general. The job market is hard, specially now that jobs can and will be replaced by automation. You need to be in continuous progress and can't afford to do nothing if you want to work eventually. 

OK, good luck! Hope love wins, but you're free to do whatever you want. Just make sure you know the possible unintended consequences and remember that grandmas are usually, almost always right. ❤️

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[devdoodle]

Hahah wow, I definitely appreciate the honesty and your detailed reply. 

I kinda seriously wish I had applied to the MPA/ID. My undergrad degree was in economics and I could potentially get even better at STATA etc. but I just liked the feel of the MPP program more and thus ended up applying there. 

If the Columbia vs HKS financial gap wasnt this WIDE, i honestly wouldve been leaning more towards staying in NYC. But columbia does not offer its own loans and the interest rate for private loans that i've been looking at is 14ish%+. 

Currently i dont have work authorization and if i dont go to school, I'll just be unemployed for another two years and maybe even beyond that and my husband has insane work hours being a resident right now. 

and yes, I am a woman. I adore my husband. We've done long distance before marriage and were able to make it. He's very supportive. I know it'll be hard but I feel like if i do end up going to boston, after that I will just move to nyc or wherever he is and i'll just honestly take whatever job I get as long as we're living together. Worst case scenario... what are the chances of hks mpps getting decent private sector jobs?

Ugh, I'm stressing big time over here. I mean, JHU SAIS MAIR is also on the table, but I hadn't really thought much about it until now.

Fingers crossed I make the right call. Thanks a bunch for your advice! It means a lot. 😃

 

 

[HAlumni]

Sorry for the late response. Private sector jobs for MPPs is a bit hard, because I've heard they actually avoid HKS applicants, unless with double degree with a business school. But you can make it happen. Just focus on that from the start, in terms of connections, type of courses, going to all events and job fairs, practicing case study interviews (since the first year), making good relationships with professors, becoming course assistant to specific important professor and topics (even if this means more work and less party), socialize when possible, be EXTREMELY SOCIAL with a good reputation so to get good rapport with student and teachers in general, take HBS and MIT courses and do the same in terms of networking with them, start thinking of places you want to work and start asking for coffee meetings with people who work there starting in your first year (do NOT wait close to graduation to start looking for jobs), etc. Get good grades. Focus on the summer work as an opportunity to get the job experience you want in the industry you want, hopefully to get hired there eventually. 

You can do an MPP, but make it into a little MPA/ID by taking hard courses in statistics, econometrics, micro, macro, etc. And actually really dominate the topics. But doing this will be very time consuming, which might be better off using the time to network the hell out of all Harvard resources available. Because taking those courses is not a guarantee to be able to compete with PhDs, which is the development job pool. 

I think the degree is just an entry point, but ultimately having good connections is what will get you what you want. Identify important people and hang on to them to gain their trust, for when the time comes. But in a good faith and reciprocal way. Read the book How to Make Friends and Influence People, which is great. Also, become great at speaking in public, negotiating, and other soft skill that are what really matters to get ahead in life. 

I've seen mediocre students with mediocre degrees get ahead in life way more than others because they were excellent at identifying possible mentors, important people and possible "godfathers" who will guide them and just make a call for you to be hired. Not saying this is right. But the world is unfair and that's how it is. Specially, if you get to enter the "rich people circle", you will be all set. But never compromise your core principles and values, because you will be tempted by very evil people. 

Also, try to look the best possible. Evidence suggests that attractive people have better opportunities and higher salaries. I know, it's so shallow, but like I said, the world is very unfair. Fxck society. 

Good luck! ☺️