Junior Year Chemistry Student-- Where to Apply?

[Groove]

Hi! I'm a new member-- and I have a question to poll the board about. I am a junior year chemistry student at a very small liberal arts institution.

I will be graduating with a 3.8ish GPA, Three Internships (two of which extended into research into the semester), Two full years of independent research (that's the only type of research we have here)

I am looking for Chemistry graduate programs.

Remember when you were applying to undergrad? and where to apply was relatively simple-- You had an SAT and GPA, so you knew your safetys, reaches, etc.

I'm very confused as how to go about applying this go around without wasting my time and being too optimistic about what I can do. I know that Internships, Reseach, and Reccommendations are key-- I have filled all of those areas very well-- but am hindered since I am at a small research institution.

I'm looking to go into Organic Chem of some sort-- in particular, Medicinal Chemistry/Natural Products.

Ideas?

[UnlikelyGrad]

I'm very confused as how to go about applying this go around without wasting my time and being too optimistic about what I can do. I know that Internships, Reseach, and Reccommendations are key-- I have filled all of those areas very well-- but am hindered since I am at a small research institution.

Why are you hindered? You sound like you have a good background to me. Don't worry about your school. Heck, my alma mater could very easily be referred to as a "degree mill" (it was a large state university), and I got accepted places.

Make sure you have a good GRE score. Some people say it's not necessary, but some schools *will* discard you on that basis alone if your score is too low.

Think very specifically about what sorts of research you want to do. Read the literature in that field. Find profs whose work you enjoy. See where they work. Apply to those schools.

[Groove]

Why are you hindered? You sound like you have a good background to me. Don't worry about your school. Heck, my alma mater could very easily be referred to as a "degree mill" (it was a large state university), and I got accepted places.

Make sure you have a good GRE score. Some people say it's not necessary, but some schools *will* discard you on that basis alone if your score is too low.

Think very specifically about what sorts of research you want to do. Read the literature in that field. Find profs whose work you enjoy. See where they work. Apply to those schools.

Thank you very much for your reply

I guess the "hindered" comes from the idea that for us students at small schools, we can't actually become involved in the research that the professors are doing. Also, all of my research is in research companies, not institutions. I won't be entering with any publications, whatsoever.

I've been researching my butt off on certain professors and what they do at various institutions. Does a student look more attractive as a candidate if they are well versed in the research they are getting into- rather than "I'm here because I feel like its what I'm supposed to do?"

[Eigen]

Thank you very much for your reply

I guess the "hindered" comes from the idea that for us students at small schools, we can't actually become involved in the research that the professors are doing. Also, all of my research is in research companies, not institutions. I won't be entering with any publications, whatsoever.

I've been researching my butt off on certain professors and what they do at various institutions. Does a student look more attractive as a candidate if they are well versed in the research they are getting into- rather than "I'm here because I feel like its what I'm supposed to do?"

Absolutely. Research potential PIs, and know what they're working on so you can talk to them intelligently.

Medicinal chem is the area I'm in- since you couple it with natural products, I'm guessing you're more interested in traditional pharmaceuticals rather than biopharmaceuticals.

I'd check Vanderbilt- nice chem department, good school, and a nice mix of natural product and med chem research. If you're really interested in medicinal chem, you'll want to pick a school that has an attached medical school, and one that is reasonable close (ie, not like Penn State, where the medical campus is close to 2 hours away). I spend about half my time at our medical school testing the compounds we make, and being able to easily get collaborations with pharmacology labs and other biomedical people helps a lot. Vanderbilt was especially nice for that- the chem department is right across the street from the med school, and a decent number of the faculty are dual appointed.

Northwestern had traditionally had a lot of natural products labs- Silverman is still there, I think, and he does quite a bit with medicinally active natural products.

If you aren't already, join the ACS... Student memberships are cheap... And join the Division of Medicinal Chem- good yearly publication you get with your membership (annual reports in medicinal chemistry).

Feel free to PM me if you'd like more specific advice.

[UnlikelyGrad]

I guess the "hindered" comes from the idea that for us students at small schools, we can't actually become involved in the research that the professors are doing. Also, all of my research is in research companies, not institutions. I won't be entering with any publications, whatsoever.

But it's better than no research experience at all. Make sure at least one of your research advisors writes a LoR for you.

I've been researching my butt off on certain professors and what they do at various institutions. Does a student look more attractive as a candidate if they are well versed in the research they are getting into- rather than "I'm here because I feel like its what I'm supposed to do?"

Well, there are feelings and then there are feelings, if you know what I mean.

When I was a teenager, I felt like I should major in astrophysics. I loved space, so it was the obvious choice! I just had to do it!

...except that I wasn't very good at physics, which meant that I couldn't really cut it as an astronomy major. In other words: I felt like I should do something, but it was an unsubstantiated feeling--I'd never really tried what I needed to do before.

But when I got into doing what I am doing now? OMG, I was so thrilled. And I still am. There is no doubt in my mind that this is what I want to do. Could I do something else? Sure. I made a fairly competent computational chemist, as my former PI would be happy to tell you. But it just didn't feel right.

In a nutshell: "I've tried it, and it feels right" = appropriate use of feelings; "I feel like trying something new"=reasonable thing to feel, but don't you dare mention it to admissions officers.

Are you currently doing research in medicinal chemistry? If so, good...talk about how it feels right.

If not, say..."I always felt happy when doing organic synthesis; the only thing that bothered me was that I didn't feel my work was helping people" (or something of that sort).

[Eigen]

I had the same problem- I came from a traditional org. synth background (since it was the closest our school had to Med Chem), but I just said that the biological interactions were what had always interested me, and in the absence of any direct research, I opted for experience that would broaden my synthetic background as a means of preparation. I didn't have any problems telling that to any of the potential prof's I met.

[starmaker]

I guess the "hindered" comes from the idea that for us students at small schools, we can't actually become involved in the research that the professors are doing. Also, all of my research is in research companies, not institutions. I won't be entering with any publications, whatsoever.

I've been researching my butt off on certain professors and what they do at various institutions. Does a student look more attractive as a candidate if they are well versed in the research they are getting into- rather than "I'm here because I feel like its what I'm supposed to do?"

Mostly, schools care that you have research experience at all. Publications are a nice bonus, but they want to know that you know what doing research in your field is like, not that you're already a research whiz. Most undergrads applying for grad school have no publications, or maybe one article in their school's undergrad research journal or something.

And yes, you look much more attractive if you have some focus and appear to be considering grad school for reasons other than "I feel like it's what I'm supposed to do." They want to admit people who will complete the program - attrition rates are high enough as it is. People with no idea what they want to do, why they are there, or what they are getting into, are high-risk for not finishing. And they usually don't have the savvy to structure their graduate experience in a way that makes them employable afterward, even if they do finish.

[Groove]

Okay, terrible question, but when is too early to start applications? I want to make sure that applying is my first priority. Should I look at schools based on programs that I'd like to do in a "perfect world' or should I look at schools that I'll for sure get into? Applying to colleges was so much easier than this, I must admit.

Mostly, schools care that you have research experience at all. Publications are a nice bonus, but they want to know that you know what doing research in your field is like, not that you're already a research whiz. Most undergrads applying for grad school have no publications, or maybe one article in their school's undergrad research journal or something.

And yes, you look much more attractive if you have some focus and appear to be considering grad school for reasons other than "I feel like it's what I'm supposed to do." They want to admit people who will complete the program - attrition rates are high enough as it is. People with no idea what they want to do, why they are there, or what they are getting into, are high-risk for not finishing. And they usually don't have the savvy to structure their graduate experience in a way that makes them employable afterward, even if they do finish.

[starmaker]

Okay, terrible question, but when is too early to start applications? I want to make sure that applying is my first priority.

If what you want to say in your application is likely to change a lot between now and the application deadline, it's probably too early (if it's a month from the application deadline and you still aren't sure what you want to say in your application, that's a problem in itself). I've already poked a bit at what I want to say in my SOPs for the 2011-2012 app season, and I've compiled a ton of info on possible programs, advisors, and fellowships, but I probably won't finish my apps too early because I want enough time to develop a relationship with my MS thesis advisor, so that he can write me a better letter.

Should I look at schools based on programs that I'd like to do in a "perfect world' or should I look at schools that I'll for sure get into? Applying to colleges was so much easier than this, I must admit.

And most likely, when you applied to colleges, you applied both to schools that you'd like to attend in a perfect world, and schools that you were sure that you'd get into (and some in between). Do the same for graduate schools, with the caveat that you shouldn't apply for any program where you'd rather not get into grad school than attend that program, no matter how sure you are that you'll get in.