PhD Program with Little Emphasis on GRE?

[polyman]

Is there any school out there that does not place a lot of weight on GRE scores for PhD program in Political Science? I got my masters about five years ago in political science and i am trying to go back for the doctoral program. Unfortunately, my old GRE scores expired, and the new one i took was a disaster,which i submitted to some schools anyway, hoping my academic publications (one while in school and two after school) and teaching/research experiences as a TA/RA in Graduate School would cancel out the negativity the scores.

I really miss locking myself in the library and doing what i love - research and writing.

[milanointer1908]

Is there any school out there that does not place a lot of weight on GRE scores for PhD program in Political Science? I got my masters about five years ago in political science and i am trying to go back for the doctoral program. Unfortunately, my old GRE scores expired, and the new one i took was a disaster,which i submitted to some schools anyway, hoping my academic publications (one while in school and two after school) and teaching/research experiences as a TA/RA in Graduate School would cancel out the negativity the scores.

I really miss locking myself in the library and doing what i love - research and writing.

Texas A&M according to the recruiters I spoke to last summer.

[wtncffts]

If you're willing to look at schools in Canada, none require GRE scores.

[firefly28]

Along with Canada, you could also apply to schools in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and Hong Kong. It depends on what you want to do, but schools do have some strengths--NZ has the leading scholar in political marketing, for example, and Singapore National University is good for International Relations (particularly, as one would suspect, in SE Asia). University of Toronto in Canada is a very good university.

[polyman]

Thanks for all the wonderful replies.

[atlas]

You don't need to submit a GRE score for the University of Hawaii. At least you didn't last year. Otherwise apply to top schools abroad, which don't ask for the GRE. Apply to top ones because I think Americans are really snobby about their degrees and don't always respect ones from abroad, unless they have heard of them i.e. Oxford, places like that.

[Zahar Berkut]

Apply to top ones because I think Americans are really snobby about their degrees and don't always respect ones from abroad, unless they have heard of them i.e. Oxford, places like that.

This is unfortunately true (though I expect it works this way in certain other countries, too). In addition to U Toronto, Aberystwyth is a UK school that has a strong reputation in at least the IR subfield, though I can't speak for the others. If your French is excellent, Sciences Po is world famous. And of course, don't forget LSE.

[firefly28]

This is unfortunately true (though I expect it works this way in certain other countries, too). In addition to U Toronto, Aberystwyth is a UK school that has a strong reputation in at least the IR subfield, though I can't speak for the others. If your French is excellent, Sciences Po is world famous. And of course, don't forget LSE.

Yeah, once you get outside of the really well known English schools and a few others, it does get harder to get an appointment in the US. Of course, if you don't mind relocating, you could probably still get funding and have a successful career. I'd certainly consider relocating to one of several countries after I get my Phd, if they offer a tenure track position.

[Charlie2010]

I'm sure there must be very good schools that don't care whether you have good skills at reading comprehension, constructing grammatical sentences, or doing high-school level math. But they are rare, for good reason.

[AuldReekie]

I'm sure there must be very good schools that don't care whether you have good skills at reading comprehension, constructing grammatical sentences, or doing high-school level math. But they are rare, for good reason.

The GRE is a rather American obsession. There are plenty of great schools outside the US that can deduce plenty from a SOP, writing sample and references!

[wtncffts]

The GRE is a rather American obsession. There are plenty of great schools outside the US that can deduce plenty from a SOP, writing sample and references!

Yes, this. It's dubious, to say the least, whether the GRE even measures those skills, and is just like any other standardized test: quite flawed. Moreover, some people who are otherwise quite intelligent just don't do well on such tests, and there are always contingent circumstances that may interfere with an optimal performance: illness, anxiety, etc.

[morecokesplz]

Texas A&M according to the recruiters I spoke to last summer.

IS THIS TRUE? OMG...I'm a little bit overwhelmed, TAMU is really one of my dream schools, and...I have pretty low GREs!

[firefly28]

Yes, this. It's dubious, to say the least, whether the GRE even measures those skills, and is just like any other standardized test: quite flawed. Moreover, some people who are otherwise quite intelligent just don't do well on such tests, and there are always contingent circumstances that may interfere with an optimal performance: illness, anxiety, etc.

This may be true, but I will note this: I graduated in the middle of my class out of high school (small class). When it came time to take the SAT, I got the third highest score in the class (and that was on 3 hours sleep, without a scientific calculator). Many people who graduated with grades better than mine scored lower than I did on the SAT. And many of them ended up never graduating from college, or going to some third rate college and getting a degree that's barely worth anything. So I'm inclined to believe that the SAT is a better indicator of ability to succeed in college than high school. I don't think the same necessarily holds for graduate school--I think that one should have demonstrated the ability to do high quality work in a college/university setting. But I also don't completely write off the value of the GRE, though almost exclusively the GRE-Q.

[wannabee]

...I have pretty low GREs!

Don't count on this. There are too many people applying for you to bank on getting in with a low score. Study like crazy and take the test again. You'll have the summer to do this. It is definitely worth it. Also use the summer to make a preliminary list of schools and even start working on the statement of purpose. I did not realize how time consuming the entire process is and, although I'm very happy with my results, I would have had a calmer life if I had started much earlier.

[milanointer1908]

Yes, this. It's dubious, to say the least, whether the GRE even measures those skills, and is just like any other standardized test: quite flawed. Moreover, some people who are otherwise quite intelligent just don't do well on such tests, and there are always contingent circumstances that may interfere with an optimal performance: illness, anxiety, etc.

The test does have flaws, but it's the only objective measures graduate programs have about each individual student. The relative value of a 4.0 GPA varies from university to university (2nd tier state school compared to a top 10 R1), and letter writes are notorious for inflating the qualities of students they particularly like. The only thing graduate committees have to evaluate each student on equal footing is how well they score on the GRE, and if you can't score above a 600 on the quant section, chances are you're going to struggle with some of the more advanced methods courses.

[wtncffts]

Well, I agree that there is value in a standardized test. I have issues with the GRE in particular, both its content and its process. This isn't self-serving; I scored quite well on it (which so far hasn't seemed to help much with applications, but that's a different story).

Mostly, I think the GRE should place much more emphasis on critical thinking and reasoning skills, reading comprehension, argument construction, and other essential skills to graduate study, not testing knowledge of arcane and obscure vocabulary or mathematical skills which will never be used, particularly in political science. Actually, I don't know why they don't use the GRE subject test for Political Science anymore; I have no idea what was actually on it but I would think that a test measuring knowledge of basic political and social science concepts and methods would be much better than the current setup.

I also take issue with the fact that ETS has a monopoly on the entire process, such that we are required to subject ourselves to a private corporation's testing centres, rules, fees, and evaluations.

[firefly28]

Well, I agree that there is value in a standardized test. I have issues with the GRE in particular, both its content and its process. This isn't self-serving; I scored quite well on it (which so far hasn't seemed to help much with applications, but that's a different story).

Mostly, I think the GRE should place much more emphasis on critical thinking and reasoning skills, reading comprehension, argument construction, and other essential skills to graduate study, not testing knowledge of arcane and obscure vocabulary or mathematical skills which will never be used, particularly in political science. Actually, I don't know why they don't use the GRE subject test for Political Science anymore; I have no idea what was actually on it but I would think that a test measuring knowledge of basic political and social science concepts and methods would be much better than the current setup.

I also take issue with the fact that ETS has a monopoly on the entire process, such that we are required to subject ourselves to a private corporation's testing centres, rules, fees, and evaluations.

I agree about the issue of ETS' monopoly. They charge usurious fees for taking the test and then subsequently for sending it to more schools, and they can do so because they have no competition.

[milanointer1908]

Well, I agree that there is value in a standardized test. I have issues with the GRE in particular, both its content and its process. This isn't self-serving; I scored quite well on it (which so far hasn't seemed to help much with applications, but that's a different story).

Mostly, I think the GRE should place much more emphasis on critical thinking and reasoning skills, reading comprehension, argument construction, and other essential skills to graduate study, not testing knowledge of arcane and obscure vocabulary or mathematical skills which will never be used, particularly in political science. Actually, I don't know why they don't use the GRE subject test for Political Science anymore; I have no idea what was actually on it but I would think that a test measuring knowledge of basic political and social science concepts and methods would be much better than the current setup.

I also take issue with the fact that ETS has a monopoly on the entire process, such that we are required to subject ourselves to a private corporation's testing centres, rules, fees, and evaluations.

Structure of the test goes back to the earlier point. Vocabulary and 10th grade math are things all students in the United States should be familiar with. Sure, they could test more complex math skills related to the type of methods work you will do in graduate school, but how many individuals actually take a stats, calculus, or even college algebra course? There is too much variance at the national level, and then when you add in international students, variances goes through the roof. The current test is far from perfect and needs a major overhaul, but at the same time, can you fault programs for looking at the GRE so closely? With that said, I do think a subject test in political science would help, but given that the discipline has become so quant focused over the past years, it probably would be more like the current math section in the GRE due to the aforementioned variance in undergraduate education.