Starkly contrasting views on the importance of Senior Thesis

[jazzrap]

Last semester when I asked my IR professor about grad school, he said the most overrated resume builder is a Senior Thesis. He advised against doing it. The logic is simple: the PhD students take years to finish a work that is not guaranteed to be good, so there is no point to take a look at any writing sample by an undergrad who probably only takes one year with many classes going on to write it. He said that your research interest and your writing ability usually is best demonstrated in the SOI. So basically he told me that he often times simply ignored the writing sample.

However, two weeks ago. I asked my CP professor how important a quantitative method course is at an undergraduate level, and other stuff regarding the importance of mathematical background. Toward the end of his answer, my professor added another comment: "Actually, the more important thing for grad school is a good Senior Thesis. In your Thesis is where your research interest can be demonstrated and through the Thesis they can see how good you are as a potential researcher."

Both professors are pretty famous within their fields, and also both have been on admission committee. I do not think there should be a difference between IR and CP regarding the importance of Thesis and Writing Sample.

I therefore conclude that personal views really vary in the admission committee.

So, I think we should write our Thesis and do it well even it is time consuming. Just in case.

[troika]

I am also working on my thesis this year and what I was told by my professors is pretty much the same as what your CP prof said. In the end, not everyone gets to do a senior thesis, so that already says something about you. As faulty as it may be (what you said about time constraints, focusing on more than one thing etc), the thesis is an introduction to what it means to handle projects larger than the 25-30 page seminar papers. That is, unless you have some other significant research experience. The fact that you're taking other classes at the same time makes it more challenging, so it's a bit like walking on wire - takes skill.

What is your topic if I may ask?

Edited February 9, 2011 by troika

[Tufnel]

I was required to do a thesis in order to graduate. It was pretty open, you could go in any direction methodologically as long as you could find an adviser that would support it. There was a length requirement, I think >60 pages. Apart from that, you could be a qually or a quant, step on disciplinary lines, etc. Some of the law school bound wrote papers that read more like something you'd find in a law journal than in JOP. They just made sure they could find an adviser, since the adviser was also the grader.

Personally, I can't see why you wouldn't write it. If you want to go to graduate school, hopefully you enjoy doing research in political science and writing about your research. I understand the desire to use your time most efficiently but really, what's a better use your academic hours than conducting a serious research project? It's great practice and illuminates how much you actually enjoy political science.

Assuming you don't apply the fall of your senior year, a senior thesis also provides a well-developed writing sample. Though it will be too long for most departments, you can take a selection from it. It should be more rigorous than that which you wrote for a seminar. While both the value of the writing sample and the experience provided by a thesis are uncertain, I think it's fair to say they matter at some schools. At least one explicitly states that the writing sample is the most important piece of the application and requests long works in particular.

[oasis]

I wrote a senior thesis.

Pros:

- Signal of independent research ability

- Signal of writing ability

- Signal of applicant quality if thesis is 'competitive'

- LOR from adviser

Cons:

- Significant opportunity cost. e.g. Could have used that time to tech up

- Length limits for writing sample submission

Many of the pros can be obtained through alternatives like seminar papers or a joint paper with a prof instead. Then you can use the saved time to get more methods training, or another seminar with a big name prof, or an RA job, etc.

Rather than bet on which component of the application is weighted heavily, have a balanced portfolio.

[Charlie2010]

Just do it. Don't you like doing research? If not, please don't apply.

[rising_star]

I think the biggest advantage of doing a senior thesis is the research and writing skills you gain. I never let anyone read my senior thesis. BUT, I was much better prepared as a MA student to write my thesis than my colleagues were that had never written more than a 20 page paper. A lot of them struggled with putting the data, literature, and ideas together into 80 pages or so for the MA thesis. But, I remember thinking it wouldn't be so hard. Plus, the experience of juggling coursework with writing is a good one.

[Zahar Berkut]

If you do well on it, it will help. But I don't know if it will hurt if you don't do one at all, provided you can still demonstrate high academic potential and independent research ability. A friend of mine declined to do one, and she's already been admitted to some good schools this cycle.

My advisers were those who frowned on the senior thesis, claiming that they've never seen one of really high quality, and maintaining the high opportunity costs of what you could be doing with your time as an undergrad. As for writing samples, you should have produced multiple 20 page+ papers as an undergrad, and you can do a 1-semester independent study if you really want something longer.

Also note that you need to be very independently driven or have an unusually dedicated adviser to bring a thesis to fruition. Nor is it just a question of "enjoying" research-- it's a question of sticking to a topic for a year and regularly working on it using research skills/methodology you have only rudimentary training in, during your senior year of college, possibly with little guidance.

[Purled]

I didn't have the opportunity to write a senior thesis, as I transfered to my undergrad at the beginning of junior year, and thesis proposals were due at the end of sophomore year. That being said, I've had several top-of-the-field professors lament the theses explosion that's swept through undergrad institutions the past few years. The profs - two of which were theorists, so take this with a grain of salt - described the majority of theses as wastes of faculty time and attention, and that the opportunity to write a thesis had been severely overextended.

That said, I wish I'd been allowed to write one.

[slacktivist]

I only made the decision within the last year to pursue a Ph.D, so I had to act quickly to come up with a substantive research paper. However, I am coming from a state school that does not offer any sort of senior or honors seminar, let alone a senior thesis. My solution was to take graduate seminars last semester in the hope of producing a quality seminar paper. I was able to do so and also had the paper accepted at a couple of conferences. Unfortunately, the time I spent on the seminar paper kept me from applying to schools due in December, but I would be very happy to accept my current best offer.

[jazzrap]

I am also working on my thesis this year and what I was told by my professors is pretty much the same as what your CP prof said. In the end, not everyone gets to do a senior thesis, so that already says something about you. As faulty as it may be (what you said about time constraints, focusing on more than one thing etc), the thesis is an introduction to what it means to handle projects larger than the 25-30 page seminar papers. That is, unless you have some other significant research experience. The fact that you're taking other classes at the same time makes it more challenging, so it's a bit like walking on wire - takes skill.

What is your topic if I may ask?

Well, I cannot tell you my topic because I do not have one yet. I m not even a Junior. It is just that last semester I decided to switch out of the business school to do what I really like to do (academic career), so I started messing around in this website just to get an idea of what is like. I know I want to do IR with a little bit emphasis on China, but that's it.

But good luck on your thesis.

[AuldReekie]

Different place but I know British Universities are meant to greatly value final year independent research projects. We're told not to apply for PhD programs unless we get a 1st/A in the research thesis/dissertation.

[Charlie2010]

It seems risky both for you to decide to become an academic and for a program to accept you if you haven't yet faced the struggle of designing and carrying out a significant piece of independent research. It also helps you have something interesting to say in your application essay. However, if your advisors tell you not to and say they will write good letters anyway, you should probably do what they say.

[sorashinobi]

I am doing my Master's right now at the LSE and I have to tell you that I found my undergraduate thesis absolutely indispensable. What I tell people who ask is if you don't plan on going past your BA, don't bother, but if you do, it is an absolute must. Not only does it get you a great relationship with a professor who knows your work (a great source for letters of rec). Also, it is a great way to get research experience in an environment where you're not expected to really know how to do it. At LSE they give you next to no guidance (won't even read chapters or drafts). Lastly, it gives you the opportunity for publication. I am convinced one of the reasons I got into PhD programs this year is because of my thesis winning awards and getting published.

Bottom line, do it if you want to keep going with your education. The worst you have to lose is some sleep.