PennDesign

[L333makes]

since there seem to be several of us who have been admitted to penn design, i thought we might start our own group to exchange info that we each find out about the program, and to see who's headed to the open house in april. i'm very curious about how many people they admitted, what the situation with funding/ TA will look like, and what the ultimate size of the incoming 'class' will be. anyone know? (someone had posted 18-20 ppl in per year on another thread, wondering if that sounds right?)

[wannaknow]

they told me it was their most competative year they have had in a long time and that they accepted 20 students for this class so he said there would eb 36-40 total both years. I asked about estimated funding ooptions and they said merit scholarships and then pretty much every student gets a TA for the first year that pays up to 2000 a semester. then he said you could petition ot teach your own class the 2nd year and that can pay up to 6000 a semester. Plus they have a progrma when they work with an art academy and that can pay up to 3000 a semester. Then he added in about financial aid...uuughghhh!! Ill be curious to find out about funding on the 14th!!! I am almost 100%certain I will go to Penn, b/c it has abeena top choice all along and it feels liek it would be a good fit for me and my work. I will be at the open house on April the 4th and my name is Laine Godsey. I hope a couple of us end up there!!!!!

[L333makes]

Thanks, Laine. Can you talk about why it's been a top choice for you? I know that I was attracted to it initially because the MFA is housed in the school of art and design--among disciplines like architecture and urban planning, etc. There seems to be a great emphasis on applied art/ making art that is addressing/ looking at social issues (i think on their website they say something like 'looking at social issues as design problems'). it seems less myopic than some programs in this way.

in terms of aid, i heard that they only give one or two TA positions in the first year, and that then you compete for the chance to teach a class in the second year...not sure which is right (i like your version more! LoL)

I'd love to hear more from others about the pros/ cons they see...

they told me it was their most competative year they have had in a long time and that they accepted 20 students for this class so he said there would eb 36-40 total both years. I asked about estimated funding ooptions and they said merit scholarships and then pretty much every student gets a TA for the first year that pays up to 2000 a semester. then he said you could petition ot teach your own class the 2nd year and that can pay up to 6000 a semester. Plus they have a progrma when they work with an art academy and that can pay up to 3000 a semester. Then he added in about financial aid...uuughghhh!! Ill be curious to find out about funding on the 14th!!! I am almost 100%certain I will go to Penn, b/c it has abeena top choice all along and it feels liek it would be a good fit for me and my work. I will be at the open house on April the 4th and my name is Laine Godsey. I hope a couple of us end up there!!!!!

[wannaknow]

well working with faculty whos work I am attracted too and that I feel like I would be intrigued to work with/around was very important to me and I have been interested in Terry adkins work for some time now. That is what initially drew me to the program, but I also really loved the diversity of the graduate student work as well as the faculty's. It was so important tthat I find an interdisciplinary program that encouraged a commutnity of peers to dialogue with across media and a program that promoted cross-diciplinary work. I also love the location being close to NY and close to many major cities on the east coast. I am interested in being able to take classes outside of the fine arts program... really there were a number of factors that made it a top choice for me.... the theory I have been working on for the last 5 months relates to social issues and that is another pull...

[wannaknow]

oh also, I could have sworn that is what he said about the TA maybe he meant TA and GA or maybe I was so excited I didnt hear correctly?????? I hope I'm right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bearolion]

Hey Guys! I will be there on April 4th for the open house, but I have to admit I am pretty worried about financing a PennDesign education. I love that PennDesign is incorporated so freely into UPenn's academic world; it seems like there are a lot of opportunities to expand in different directions. But I'm nervous: I've heard that they don't give much financial aid and they are by far the most expensive tuition on my list of schools...

I applied for the JCK scholarship, but those decisions come out in early May, so that wouldn't really factor in for Penn (who has kind of an early notification date, non?)

We're all getting our formal acceptances and aid breakdowns within the next week-- what do you guys think? Are any of you in a similar financial pinch?

[savethewolves]

Hi all- I will be there on the 4th, too. I'm in the process now of talking to a couple current Penn first-years I know... nothing specific to share yet, but I'll post as they mention things that everyone might find useful.... I am also in the money anxiety boat. It will be very curious to see what is offered when we get our letters on Monday..... L333makes - were you at SUNY Purchase yesterday? I wanted to find you, but it was too hard to figure out how to ask for you/introduce myself. What were your impressions of Purchase?

We can also do a 4-way convo through messaging... a bit more private.

[wannaknow]

hey where are you guys staying? I found this place called "UCity Hostel" that looks like its on campus but the number is wrong.... also do you guys know if they allow vistors to rent out dorm rooms... or does anyone know any good cheap hotels/motels/hostels in university city?????

[eleven]

I'm going to try to visit Penn on my way driving to or from Yale/RISD interviews, but I can't afford to fly out for the open house too. (I'm in painting) I really like that they encourage an interdisciplinary approach to art, but I don't know much about the school. I'd love to hear more thoughts.

[bearolion]

Hey guys, has anybody heard back from Penn about financing?

[wannaknow]

I sent you a message about my funding, if you want to reply and maybe share your...

Hey guys, has anybody heard back from Penn about financing?

[savethewolves]

Funding news anyone? Do you mind to message me, too, please.... Thanks!!

[savethewolves]

Hi guys! so, as I'm contemplating heavy debt for Penn, I'm wondering -- What is an "insiders'" perception of this program? I know Penn is not a "top" program like Columbia or Yale -- but how is a Penn MFA in Fine Arts perceived by folks you all know who are current with art programs? Thanks for your thoughts...

[L333makes]

I'm wondering the same thing--and leaning away from Penn because of the debt. From what I've heard, we're all in a similar boat with nearing 80k in loan debt for the pgm. i spoke with joshua mosley last week, and he mentioned that sometime there is more funding available in the second year, if a student performs really well, but i'm nervous about entering into a situation in which i am risking so much debt...where do the rest of you stand?

Hi guys! so, as I'm contemplating heavy debt for Penn, I'm wondering -- What is an "insiders'" perception of this program? I know Penn is not a "top" program like Columbia or Yale -- but how is a Penn MFA in Fine Arts perceived by folks you all know who are current with art programs? Thanks for your thoughts...

[savethewolves]

Yeah - 80K in debt.... Sounds like carrying a mighty albatross to me -- for 25 years or longer.... But at least we're all in roughly the same boat with the awards.... It seems like Penn does not have the resources to give much scholarship to anyone. Has anyone received a really generous offer from Penn??

[wannaknow]

ok everyone here is something important to know and consider... once you graduate all of your grad plus, perkins and federal subsidized and unsubsidzed loans can be consolidated by a gov.t program that allows you to only pay a percetage of your monthly bill based on a sliding scale of how much you make. PLUS the best part about federal loans is that after 10 years of working for a public/govt/ or educational institution there is debt forgiveness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of coarse it take a good bit of effort and planning on our part but as long as paper work is filled and payments are made the debt will not stay wiht you forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you can even find this info on the Penn website.. http://www.ibrinfo.org/what.vp.html#pslf read this info on loan repayment... Plus I have already found several outside scholarships to apply for that could potentially help if I were to be awarded anything... Plus you could always ask penn for more money.. it cant hurt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! plus there are things like donating eggs (up to $6000 and only if you are a woman) and doanting PLASMA which pays like 30 bucks per time (you can do it 2 times a week) I mean I know these are unconventional things that only helop a little but for me it is owrth it to be at the schooll I really want to be at... I plan on teaching when I'm done, to help me make a living and so the loan forgiveness thing applies to my lifeplan and so it makes taking on debt less scary!!!!! If I didnt go to Penn I know I would always regret it and look back and think "oh I wonder if it could have been different if I was only there..." but in all honesty my other choices are good schools, but not even kind of on the level with what is happening at Penn right now! Plus check out the Penn blog for current and past students, they have lists of grads from past years with links to their websites and you can look at the awesome careers these peole are having with good gallery rep and shows all over the world including New York, The Tate Modern, germany, LA, Tokyo. Ok well thats my two cents, and maybe some food for thought... it wont be right for everyone but for me it is the place to be!!! LOL good luck making a choice.

[jjmfa]

you have to have a real job of a certain kind PLUS be making all you loan payments on time to be eligible for 10 yrs. that means jsut working as an artist isn't an option...you have to have a gov/non-profit employer. then why get an mfa? to work in non-proft?

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF)

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) is a new program for federal student loan borrowers who work in certain kinds of jobs. It will forgive remaining debt after 10 years of eligible employment and qualifying loan payments. (During those 10 years, the Income-Based Repayment (IBR) plan can help keep your loan payments affordable.)

Who can get PSLF?

This program is for people with federal student loans who work in a wide range of "public service" jobs, including jobs in government and nonprofit 501©(3) organizations.

What are eligible jobs?

In most cases, eligibility is based on whether you work for an eligible employer. Your job is eligible if you:

are employed by any nonprofit, tax-exempt 501©(3) organization;

are employed by the federal government, a state government, local government, or tribal government (this includes the military and public schools and colleges); or

serve in a full-time AmeriCorps or Peace Corps position.

If you don't meet these criteria, the Department of Education's regulations create a two-part test of other circumstances under which you may still be eligible:

(1) your employer is not "a business organized for profit, a labor union, a partisan political organization, or an organization engaged in religious activities, unless the qualifying activities are unrelated to religious instruction, worship services, or any form of proselytizing;"

and,

(2) your employer provides any of the following public services: emergency management; military service; public safety; law enforcement; public interest law services; early childhood education; public service for individuals with disabilities and the elderly; public health; public education; public library services; and school library or other school-based services.

These definitions of eligible jobs reflect the Department of Education's final regulations for PSLF, as posted in the Federal Register on October 23, 2008.

What kinds of loans does it cover?

It covers federal Stafford, Grad PLUS, or consolidation loans as long as they are in the Direct Loan program. Borrowers with loans in the Guaranteed (or FFEL) loan program must switch to the Direct Loan program to get this benefit.

When does the 10-year clock start, and which payments count?

Only payments made after October 1, 2007 count towards the 10 years (120 monthly payments, not necessarily consecutive) required for Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Qualifying payments are payments made through the William D. Ford Direct Loan Program in any of the following three repayment plans: the Income Contingent Repayment plan, the Standard (10-year) Repayment plan, and the Income-Based Repayment (IBR) plan.

To count, these payments must be made while you're working full-time in an eligible job. "Full-time," according to the final regulations issued by the Department of Education, means an annual average of 30 hours per week or the standard for full-time used by the employer, whichever is greater. For people working part-time at two or more qualifying jobs, "full-time" means an annual average of 30 hours across all jobs held. In professions such as teaching, annual contracts that include at least eight months of full-time work will be treated as the equivalent of a full year's employment. If you meet all the criteria, the earliest your remaining debt could be forgiven is October 2017.

What if I've already paid off my loans by then?

This loan forgiveness program will only benefit people who still owe money on their federal loans after 10 years of eligible payments and employment. If your income is low relative to your debt, and you qualify for reduced payments under IBR (or Income Contingent Repayment) at any time during those 10 years, you will likely have debt left to forgive. (Learn more about IBR.)

[wannaknow]

it qualifies for people who are working in a fed/public institution like a UNIVERSITY.. a public one, and many of us plan on being practicing artists but understand we will have ot supplement our income with teaching jobs... those teaching jobs might very well be at public schools which qualify for loan forgiveness and you also have ot consider the consolidation program that helps wiht payments. Of coarse you have to be making payments on the loans during those 10 years but with loan the payment plans that can help... I said its not for everyone and I'm, kinda surprised offering info that might help some people would be seen as a negative. Maybe you will be one of the lucky few artist that doesnt have to supplemant their arts income but I have a child and I will need a steady income so teaching in addition to making art works for me... thats why I'm getting an MFA to be the best artist I can be and increase my opportunites for having a good steady income like teaching that also affords me the time anad means to make my work. thanks for your thoughts...

you have to have a real job of a certain kind PLUS be making all you loan payments on time to be eligible for 10 yrs. that means jsut working as an artist isn't an option...you have to have a gov/non-profit employer. then why get an mfa? to work in non-proft?

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF)

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) is a new program for federal student loan borrowers who work in certain kinds of jobs. It will forgive remaining debt after 10 years of eligible employment and qualifying loan payments. (During those 10 years, the Income-Based Repayment (IBR) plan can help keep your loan payments affordable.)

Who can get PSLF?

This program is for people with federal student loans who work in a wide range of "public service" jobs, including jobs in government and nonprofit 501©(3) organizations.

What are eligible jobs?

In most cases, eligibility is based on whether you work for an eligible employer. Your job is eligible if you:

are employed by any nonprofit, tax-exempt 501©(3) organization;

are employed by the federal government, a state government, local government, or tribal government (this includes the military and public schools and colleges); or

serve in a full-time AmeriCorps or Peace Corps position.

If you don't meet these criteria, the Department of Education's regulations create a two-part test of other circumstances under which you may still be eligible:

(1) your employer is not "a business organized for profit, a labor union, a partisan political organization, or an organization engaged in religious activities, unless the qualifying activities are unrelated to religious instruction, worship services, or any form of proselytizing;"

and,

(2) your employer provides any of the following public services: emergency management; military service; public safety; law enforcement; public interest law services; early childhood education; public service for individuals with disabilities and the elderly; public health; public education; public library services; and school library or other school-based services.

These definitions of eligible jobs reflect the Department of Education's final regulations for PSLF, as posted in the Federal Register on October 23, 2008.

What kinds of loans does it cover?

It covers federal Stafford, Grad PLUS, or consolidation loans as long as they are in the Direct Loan program. Borrowers with loans in the Guaranteed (or FFEL) loan program must switch to the Direct Loan program to get this benefit.

When does the 10-year clock start, and which payments count?

Only payments made after October 1, 2007 count towards the 10 years (120 monthly payments, not necessarily consecutive) required for Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Qualifying payments are payments made through the William D. Ford Direct Loan Program in any of the following three repayment plans: the Income Contingent Repayment plan, the Standard (10-year) Repayment plan, and the Income-Based Repayment (IBR) plan.

To count, these payments must be made while you're working full-time in an eligible job. "Full-time," according to the final regulations issued by the Department of Education, means an annual average of 30 hours per week or the standard for full-time used by the employer, whichever is greater. For people working part-time at two or more qualifying jobs, "full-time" means an annual average of 30 hours across all jobs held. In professions such as teaching, annual contracts that include at least eight months of full-time work will be treated as the equivalent of a full year's employment. If you meet all the criteria, the earliest your remaining debt could be forgiven is October 2017.

What if I've already paid off my loans by then?

This loan forgiveness program will only benefit people who still owe money on their federal loans after 10 years of eligible payments and employment. If your income is low relative to your debt, and you qualify for reduced payments under IBR (or Income Contingent Repayment) at any time during those 10 years, you will likely have debt left to forgive. (Learn more about IBR.)

[wannaknow]

this is a direct quote from the website about repayment of funding.. see where it says that jobs at public schools including colleges are included. also see the second inclusion about the debt consolidation/reduction. Hope this helps someone... I cant make this type not be bold, I'm not yelling LOL

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF)

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) is a new program for federal student loan borrowers who work in certain kinds of jobs. It will forgive remaining debt after 10 years of eligible employment and qualifying loan payments. (During those 10 years, the Income-Based Repayment (IBR) plan can help keep your loan payments affordable.)

Who can get PSLF? This program is for people with federal student loans who work in a wide range of "public service" jobs, including jobs in government and nonprofit 501©(3) organizations.

What are eligible jobs? In most cases, eligibility is based on whether you work for an eligible employer. Your job is eligible if you:

• <LI hasbox="2">are employed by any nonprofit, tax-exempt 501©(3) organization; <LI hasbox="2">are employed by the federal government, a state government, local government, or tribal government (this includes the military and public schools and colleges); or
• serve in a full-time AmeriCorps or Peace Corps position.
  
  (1) your employer is not "a business organized for profit, a labor union, a partisan political organization, or an organization engaged in religious activities, unless the qualifying activities are unrelated to religious instruction, worship services, or any form of proselytizing;"
  
  and,
  
  (2) your employer provides any of the following public services: emergency management; military service; public safety; law enforcement; public interest law services; early childhood education; public service for individuals with disabilities and the elderly; public health; public education; public library services; and school library or other school-based services.
  
  These definitions of eligible jobs reflect the Department of Education's final regulations for PSLF, as posted in the Federal Register on October 23, 2008.
  
  What kinds of loans does it cover? It covers federal Stafford, Grad PLUS, or consolidation loans as long as they are in the Direct Loan program. Borrowers with loans in the Guaranteed (or FFEL) loan program must switch to the Direct Loan program to get this benefit.
  
  When does the 10-year clock start, and which payments count? Only payments made after October 1, 2007 count towards the 10 years (120 monthly payments, not necessarily consecutive) required for Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Qualifying payments are payments made through the William D. Ford Direct Loan Program in any of the following three repayment plans: the plan, the plan, and the Income-Based Repayment (IBR) plan.
  
  To count, these payments must be made while you're working full-time in an eligible job. "Full-time," according to the final regulations issued by the Department of Education, means an annual average of 30 hours per week or the standard for full-time used by the employer, whichever is greater. For people working part-time at two or more qualifying jobs, "full-time" means an annual average of 30 hours across all jobs held. In professions such as teaching, annual contracts that include at least eight months of full-time work will be treated as the equivalent of a full year's employment. If you meet all the criteria, the earliest your remaining debt could be forgiven is October 2017.
  
  What if I've already paid off my loans by then? This loan forgiveness program will only benefit people who still owe money on their federal loans after 10 years of eligible payments and employment. If your income is low relative to your debt, and you qualify for reduced payments under IBR (or Income Contingent Repayment) at any time during those 10 years, you will likely have debt left to forgive. (Learn more about IBR.)
  
  
  
  Find out more about how to qualify for Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF).
  
  
  
  
  
  Income-Based Repayment (IBR)
  Income-Based Repayment (IBR) is a new payment option for federal student loans. It can help borrowers keep their loan payments affordable with payment caps based on their income and family size. For most eligible borrowers, IBR loan payments will be less than 10 percent of their income - and even smaller for borrowers with low earnings. IBR will also forgive remaining debt, if any, after 25 years of qualifying payments.
  
  Who can use IBR? IBR is available to federal student loan borrowers in both the Direct and Guaranteed (or FFEL) loan programs, and covers most types of federal loans made to students, but not those made to parents (click here for more about qualifying loans). To enter IBR, you have to have enough debt relative to your income to qualify for a reduced payment. That means it would take more than 15 percent of whatever you earn above to pay off your loans on a standard 10-year payment plan. Use our to see if you're likely to be eligible.
  
  How does IBR make payments more affordable? IBR uses a kind of sliding scale to determine how much you can afford to pay on your federal loans. If you earn below for your family size, your required loan payment will be $0. If you earn more, your loan payment will be capped at 15 percent of whatever you earn above that amount. Except for the highest earners, that usually works out to less than 10 percent of your total income.
  
  This chart shows examples of IBR payment caps as a percentage of the borrower's family income, based on various incomes and family sizes.
  
  What about interest? In some situations, your reduced payment under IBR may not cover the interest on your loans. If so, the government will pay that interest on your Subsidized Stafford Loans for your first three years in IBR. After three years and for other loan types, the interest will be added to the total amount you owe. While your debt may grow if your affordable payments are low enough, anything you still owe after 25 years of qualifying payments will be forgiven.
  
  What are qualifying payments? The Department of Education has indicated that the following types of payments will count towards IBR's 25-year forgiveness period, as long as you are in IBR at some point during those 25 years.
  
  
  • Payments made in the Income Contingent Repayment plan (ICR) before July 1, 2009.<LI hasbox=2">All payments made on or after July 1, 2009 in the IBR, Income Contingent Repayment (ICR), and Standard (10-year) Repayment plans. <LI hasbox="2">Periods when the borrower has a calculated payment of zero in IBR or ICR (this occurs when your income is at or below 150% of the poverty level for your family size).
  • Periods on or after July 1, 2009, when the borrower has been granted an economic hardship deferment.

  Find out more about how to qualify for IBR.

[eleven]

I'm interested in funding too, anyone can message me if you want to exchange what you got.

[Chombo]

Hi guys! so, as I'm contemplating heavy debt for Penn, I'm wondering -- What is an "insiders'" perception of this program? I know Penn is not a "top" program like Columbia or Yale -- but how is a Penn MFA in Fine Arts perceived by folks you all know who are current with art programs? Thanks for your thoughts...

penn is expensive, that's true.

i'm going there now, with partial funding.

i think you might be under-estimating the potential of penn's program and possibly over-valuing the 'rankings', which are really just silly and out of date.

for example, at penn last week we had a lecture by anne hamilton, and studio crits with carlos basualdo.

this week we have a lecture by stan douglas and crits with yasmil raymond. the program is also well-integrated with the university in general which looking ahead into an inter-disciplinary (art) world is a forward thinking place to be. i think the 'pure art' schools are trending out, and programs that are tied into major research universities are the future of art education. yale, ucla and the ascendency of columbia are good examples of that.

that said, i still have my problems with it here. i'm not looking to paint any kind of utopia out of penn. i guess all i want to say is that penn is on the step up quick and can be as good as you make it. no place to slouch around at all.

[wannaknow]

thanks or sharing with us!!!!!! would you mind saying if you had to do it over if you still think you would make the same choice? and do you believe it is worth the money? It sounds like overall you really like the program. also I have pretty awesome funding packages at other schools, do you think it is possible (have you heard of this there) to try and get more funding then you were originally awarded???? I know this happens often but I am unsure how this works at Penn.

penn is expensive, that's true.

i'm going there now, with partial funding.

i think you might be under-estimating the potential of penn's program and possibly over-valuing the 'rankings', which are really just silly and out of date.

for example, at penn last week we had a lecture by anne hamilton, and studio crits with carlos basualdo.

this week we have a lecture by stan douglas and crits with yasmil raymond. the program is also well-integrated with the university in general which looking ahead into an inter-disciplinary (art) world is a forward thinking place to be. i think the 'pure art' schools are trending out, and programs that are tied into major research universities are the future of art education. yale, ucla and the ascendency of columbia are good examples of that.

that said, i still have my problems with it here. i'm not looking to paint any kind of utopia out of penn. i guess all i want to say is that penn is on the step up quick and can be as good as you make it. no place to slouch around at all.

[L333makes]

I'm wondering if you, @Chombo, have thoughts about the funding that may become available as a second year student. Joshua Mosley told me about this possibility, (merit scholarships that you can compete for, based on performance in the pgm)--how competitive are these, and what are the amounts? Thank you, again, for sharing with us--it's great to hear from someone on the inside!

[savethewolves]

Wondering if any others of you came to the visiting day and felt as excited about Penn as I did?