AU (MPP) or CMU (MSPPM) ?

[bzcww3]

Hello everyone, first things first, congratulations to all who got into their program of their choice! For those who didn't (just like me), don't be disheartened

Secondly, I have a dilemma and I hope to be able to gain some opinion regarding this matter. I have been accepted to both American Uni (MPP) and Carnegie Mellon (MSPPM). AU offered me a full tuition remission and an assistantship, while CMU offered me a $12K scholarship. Financially, it would make sense to take up AU's offer and graduate with the least amount of debt. But will this affect me in the long run? Job prospect? Are any fellow peers here facing the same dilemma or have had to face this dilemma in the past? I would appreciate comments and insights. Thank you!

[Weaves]

I've been following a few posts on this forum for the past month or so and decided I might as well join by this point. I have also been accepted to both of those programs; same money for Carnegie Mellon, not sure yet for American. I'm visiting CMU at the end of this week, but I'm very much unsure of which school would suit me best at this point.

Hello everyone, first things first, congratulations to all who got into their program of their choice! For those who didn't (just like me), don't be disheartened

Secondly, I have a dilemma and I hope to be able to gain some opinion regarding this matter. I have been accepted to both American Uni (MPP) and Carnegie Mellon (MSPPM). AU offered me a full tuition remission and an assistantship, while CMU offered me a $12K scholarship. Financially, it would make sense to take up AU's offer and graduate with the least amount of debt. But will this affect me in the long run? Job prospect? Are any fellow peers here facing the same dilemma or have had to face this dilemma in the past? I would appreciate comments and insights. Thank you!

[bzcww3]

Thanks for replying! I am glad there are people on the same boat as I am. Also, I hope you get to hear some good news about getting off the waitlist for LBJ soon. That was my first choice

I've been following a few posts on this forum for the past month or so and decided I might as well join by this point. I have also been accepted to both of those programs; same money for Carnegie Mellon, not sure yet for American. I'm visiting CMU at the end of this week, but I'm very much unsure of which school would suit me best at this point.

[nogone]

How much would you be paying at CMU? And what are you wanting to do ultimately?

Personally, I'd follow the money

[bzcww3]

My wallet tells me to do the same too. Given that i'm heading to grad school straight from college, I don't want to be burdened by a huge debt.

While I am open to any career path that comes my way, I am hoping to work in a research institute, think tank, or in the civil service (I am an international student) dealing with economic policy. My advisors have told me that both schools are good in its own rights, but a few of them told me that I shouldn't turn down the chance to attend CMU (regardless the fact that financing it will be a problem).

How much would you be paying at CMU? And what are you wanting to do ultimately?

Personally, I'd follow the money

[Starshane]

Got the same amount of funding from CMU MSPPM and unsure of where to go either......I have almost the same idea about career as you do...... but I'm an international student who attend college in China, which makes it much harder for me to find whatever job in the states...

[fso2k11]

Dang, I should have applied to AU. AU has great internship/PMF connections. CMU rarely produces PMFs, and outside of DC the federal career internship programs & other student programs aren't possible. AU has access to specific programs for federal employment while attending part time, if thats something you end up being interested in/transitioning to.

Got the same amount of funding from CMU MSPPM and unsure of where to go either......I have almost the same idea about career as you do...... but I'm an international student who attend college in China, which makes it much harder for me to find whatever job in the states...

[bzcww3]

is that something opened to international students too?

Dang, I should have applied to AU. AU has great internship/PMF connections. CMU rarely produces PMFs, and outside of DC the federal career internship programs & other student programs aren't possible. AU has access to specific programs for federal employment while attending part time, if thats something you end up being interested in/transitioning to.

[mppgal55]

The PMF requires US Citizenship.

I am a current Heinz student, so if you have any questions feel free to send them my way.

As to your specific dilemma, I was in a very similar position last year, only I was looking more at Maryland than AU. I chose CMU for a variety of reasons.

1 - I am in the DC program here, and the individual program aspects appealed to me.

2 - I went to a little-known undergrad, and wanted the name/prestige/reputation that Heinz brings. I have felt this reputation SO much this year (internship offers, interviews, connections, networking events, career workshops w/employers, etc.).

3 - I liked that Heinz had more private-sector connections, which opened up an additional field that MPP schools rarely bring.

4 - The MSPPM really gives you a quantitative edge, as it is skills-based and puts out policy analysts. We take courses like management science where we learn how to use linear programming to solve policy issues, and this is something only CMU teaches. This not only gives a competitive edge over MBA students, it also is a unique feature that can help in research and professional jobs.

5 - Pittsburgh is great! I fell in love with the campus, faculty, and city when I visited. Everyone reached out to me, I felt at home, yada yada yada.

So yeah, it costs more money than other programs...but never once have I regretted paying the money or felt like it wasn't worth it. I feel like I'm getting my money's worth every day in a multitude of ways. I too turned down full funding and partial funding at well-known but lower-tier programs, but again, I'm very, very happy with my decision.

I don't know if that will help at all, but again, if you have any questions, feel free to send them my way and I'll do my best to answer. Congrats, and best of luck making decisions!

Edited March 15, 2011 by mppgal55

[nclex]

thanks for the info on Heinz. I am currently deciding between Heinz, LBJ and NYU....tough choice.

I was wondering if you had any thoughts on how Heinz compared to the other two? Also, it seems Heinz is a fair bit smaller, do you think this seems to be a plus? I'm also worried about the fact that Heinz in general is a very tech/quant heavy place and I don't come from a tech or quant background. Perhaps thats a reason to choose it over the others...

The PMF requires US Citizenship.

I am a current Heinz student, so if you have any questions feel free to send them my way.

As to your specific dilemma, I was in a very similar position last year, only I was looking more at Maryland than AU. I chose CMU for a variety of reasons.

1 - I am in the DC program here, and the individual program aspects appealed to me.

2 - I went to a little-known undergrad, and wanted the name/prestige/reputation that Heinz brings. I have felt this reputation SO much this year (internship offers, interviews, connections, networking events, career workshops w/employers, etc.).

3 - I liked that Heinz had more private-sector connections, which opened up an additional field that MPP schools rarely bring.

4 - The MSPPM really gives you a quantitative edge, as it is skills-based and puts out policy analysts. We take courses like management science where we learn how to use linear programming to solve policy issues, and this is something only CMU teaches. This not only gives a competitive edge over MBA students, it also is a unique feature that can help in research and professional jobs.

5 - Pittsburgh is great! I fell in love with the campus, faculty, and city when I visited. Everyone reached out to me, I felt at home, yada yada yada.

So yeah, it costs more money than other programs...but never once have I regretted paying the money or felt like it wasn't worth it. I feel like I'm getting my money's worth every day in a multitude of ways. I too turned down full funding and partial funding at well-known but lower-tier programs, but again, I'm very, very happy with my decision.

I don't know if that will help at all, but again, if you have any questions, feel free to send them my way and I'll do my best to answer. Congrats, and best of luck making decisions!

[fso2k11]

Probably not. I think you have to be a US citizen to do the PMF programs (and to work for our government, with few exceptions). Could be wrong though.

is that something opened to international students too?

[mppgal55]

I LOVE the size of Heinz. We have enough students to provide some great diversity, but it is small enough to really get to know people, get faculty attention, etc. There is a ton of groupwork at Heinz, too, so it's nice to have variety and closeness with my peers. We regularly comment on how well the adcomm did in selecting students - no two students have exactly the same interests, and everyone has such interesting backgrounds.

I didn't have a quant background coming in, which is part of why I chose the program. They really do fit you to your level. If you are behind by quite a bit, you can do the summer prep program. There are also beginner, intermediate, and advanced levels of stats, and beginner/intermediate econ. If you want more of a challenge, you can take econ classes in Tepper or stats with the PhD program across campus. Really, it is the classes like management science that are really the core quant in the program, and they teach you how to do optimization, linear programming, forecasting, queuing theory, etc. from step 1. Again, there is an advanced option, but while it is challenging it is possible for students of any background. Have faith that if you were admitted, you can handle it as long as you are willing to work hard.

In general, Heinz isn't easy AT ALL. It's tough. That said, I'm learning a ton, I'm still managing to have a decent amount of fun, and I definitely feel like I'm getting my money's worth. I also have 0 doubt that I will find a job after graduation.

thanks for the info on Heinz. I am currently deciding between Heinz, LBJ and NYU....tough choice.

I was wondering if you had any thoughts on how Heinz compared to the other two? Also, it seems Heinz is a fair bit smaller, do you think this seems to be a plus? I'm also worried about the fact that Heinz in general is a very tech/quant heavy place and I don't come from a tech or quant background. Perhaps thats a reason to choose it over the others...

[fso2k11]

"0 doubt" - Can you discuss why?

I LOVE the size of Heinz. We have enough students to provide some great diversity, but it is small enough to really get to know people, get faculty attention, etc. There is a ton of groupwork at Heinz, too, so it's nice to have variety and closeness with my peers. We regularly comment on how well the adcomm did in selecting students - no two students have exactly the same interests, and everyone has such interesting backgrounds.

I didn't have a quant background coming in, which is part of why I chose the program. They really do fit you to your level. If you are behind by quite a bit, you can do the summer prep program. There are also beginner, intermediate, and advanced levels of stats, and beginner/intermediate econ. If you want more of a challenge, you can take econ classes in Tepper or stats with the PhD program across campus. Really, it is the classes like management science that are really the core quant in the program, and they teach you how to do optimization, linear programming, forecasting, queuing theory, etc. from step 1. Again, there is an advanced option, but while it is challenging it is possible for students of any background. Have faith that if you were admitted, you can handle it as long as you are willing to work hard.

In general, Heinz isn't easy AT ALL. It's tough. That said, I'm learning a ton, I'm still managing to have a decent amount of fun, and I definitely feel like I'm getting my money's worth. I also have 0 doubt that I will find a job after graduation.

[mppgal55]

I will refer you to the other thread that nclex posted about CMU, I just wrote about career services there.

On top of that, the employment rate out of the DC track is 100% within 6 months (the only student not employed was in that position voluntarily, choosing to go instead to med school).

"0 doubt" - Can you discuss why?

[Evangelinelu]

Hi, thank you for ur first-hand information. I am admitted in MSPPM Pittsburgh program.

Could you please tell me something about the situation of employment or internship for international student? Is it possible for international student to find a job there after graduation, or most them just go back to their own countries? Thanks a loooooooooot~~

I will refer you to the other thread that nclex posted about CMU, I just wrote about career services there.

On top of that, the employment rate out of the DC track is 100% within 6 months (the only student not employed was in that position voluntarily, choosing to go instead to med school).

[mppgal55]

Some international students return to their home countries, some work internationally not in their home country, others do find work in the States. The most common international-student employers domestically are consulting firms, not really for internships but for full-time work. Think tanks are another popular avenue.

I don't have great information on this, but there are quite a few international students at Heinz, and I've yet to meet someone who has absolutely no prospects.

Hi, thank you for ur first-hand information. I am admitted in MSPPM Pittsburgh program.

Could you please tell me something about the situation of employment or internship for international student? Is it possible for international student to find a job there after graduation, or most them just go back to their own countries? Thanks a loooooooooot~~

[aliicat11]

Some international students return to their home countries, some work internationally not in their home country, others do find work in the States. The most common international-student employers domestically are consulting firms, not really for internships but for full-time work. Think tanks are another popular avenue.

I don't have great information on this, but there are quite a few international students at Heinz, and I've yet to meet someone who has absolutely no prospects.

I just got my acceptance to the MSPPM-DC program and I'm very excited. I have a few question that I would love to ask a current student.

1) While I did receive some merit funding, I am interested in doing some kind of work-study or TA/RA position to make extra cash. Does this happen a lot at Heinz? What kind of opportunities are available? Is working or TA-ing too difficult with the heavy course load?

2) How much choice do you have over your apprenticeship placement? How many hours a week do you work vs. how many hours you are in class?

3) On average, what is class size like?

Thanks in advance for you help!

[mppgal55]

1) If you want to do work study, you can. There are plenty of RA positions available. It gets a little challenging to work while taking classes, I'll be honest about that. I kind of wish I'd just taken more out in loans and not worked, since DC students have to take 60 hours and it gets pretty stressful. That said, my job is great experience, adds to my resume, and has made me some great connections, so I can't complain. Keep in mind financially that most 2nd year apprenticeships are paid, so that helps a bit.

2) The apprenticeship placement is entirely your choice. You don't have to accept somewhere you don't want to be. At the beginning of the year, you'll meet with our career and program directors, and tell them your top 5 places and what you're interested in. They'll tell you where they have connections, and where it'll be more up to you to initiate contact, or where alumni are, etc. It depends on your interests at that point - education, international, consulting, environment, etc. For me, Marie made initial contact on my behalf for all of my top choices because of program connections. That, and there were resume drops for a few of them. I don't have my apprenticeship solidified yet, but that's in part because the agency I want isn't reviewing apps yet.

In DC, you take class Monday and Wednesday evenings, and have some class/workshop stuff on Fridays (2nd semester, Fridays are reserved for systems - which, if you're not familiar with the term, is our capstone project thing). You work M-Th full time. You don't have a choice over your classes, which is kind of a bummer, but they are all electives most would have chosen on campus anyhow (cost-benefit analysis, program evaluation, etc).

3) In the 2nd year in DC, class size won't exceed 25, because that is the limit on the program. In Pittsburgh, it varies, partly depending on room size. I had one elective that was 12 students, several that were about 20. Intermediate econ/stats were smaller than beginner, so my econ class had about 30 students, my stats had about 45. The regular sections were divided, and I think averaged 60. For the most part, classes don't exceed 60 or 65.

I just got my acceptance to the MSPPM-DC program and I'm very excited. I have a few question that I would love to ask a current student.

1) While I did receive some merit funding, I am interested in doing some kind of work-study or TA/RA position to make extra cash. Does this happen a lot at Heinz? What kind of opportunities are available? Is working or TA-ing too difficult with the heavy course load?

2) How much choice do you have over your apprenticeship placement? How many hours a week do you work vs. how many hours you are in class?

3) On average, what is class size like?

Thanks in advance for you help!

[hughwu]

Pretty useful. Thanks so much!

I am also admitted by Heinz MSPPM prgram and I am choosing between brown and Heinz.

It seems that large parts of Heinz students seek jobs after graduation. Could you talk about the prospects of phd applications? Is it easier to apply for a top doctoral program on public policy in Heinz or any other grad schools? Many thanks.

Edited March 16, 2011 by hughwu

[mppgal55]

There are a select few Heinz students that seek Phds, but it isn't common at all. The Heinz PhD program draws a few, but for the most part it's 1 or 2 per class that go that route. It isn't hard to prepare for such a degree if that is your interest - you can write for the Journal, work on research (as an RA, independent study, etc.) with faculty, and keep your grades very high. The nature of the program, however, tends not to draw as many pure academics.

Pretty useful. Thanks so much!

I am also admitted by Heinz MSPPM prgram and I am choosing between brown and Heinz.

It seems that large parts of Heinz students seek jobs after graduation. Could you talk about the prospects of phd applications? Is it easier to apply for a top doctoral program on public policy in Heinz or any other grad schools? Many thanks.

[nclex]

thanks so much for taking the time to answer all our questions mppgal55, I know i really appreciate it.

going off what you said about PhDs and "academics" at Heinz, do you think there is a good balance between ppl focused specially on policy and research vs. administration and management? what about grads going into public vs. nonprofit vs. private positions post-grad?