Importance of Undergraduate Prestige

[Insei]

Howdy! Been creeping around this lovely forum for a bit now, figured I'd join the fray.

I'm just starting the whole grad school prep process; I've been accumulating research experience and diligently combing the interwebs for POIs and potential programs of interest for about six months now. I go to a large state university, where I'm double majoring in biology and psychology and maintain a darn decent GPA (3.85). I have been fortunate enough to find work with three different professors who study neuroscience (my thing). I have independent research projects in the works with each of them, and should have 3+ presentations and perhaps a publication under my belt by the time I apply for grad school. Those folks should provide me with some rather snazzy LORs as well!

So, about those POIs of mine...they are all, so far, at extremely reputable schools, mostly Ivy League. With a good GPA, good GRE scores (~1400), plenty of relevant research experience, fantastic LORs and interests that fit well into the program, is there any valid reason graduating from Nowhere State University should be a factor when these top tier schools look at my app? Has anyone experienced discrimination based on where they earned their undergraduate degree?

[anthropologygeek]

It's won't matter the name of your university but it will matter your departments reputation.

[tso123d]

So, about those POIs of mine...they are all, so far, at extremely reputable schools, mostly Ivy League. With a good GPA, good GRE scores (~1400), plenty of relevant research experience, fantastic LORs and interests that fit well into the program, is there any valid reason graduating from Nowhere State University should be a factor when these top tier schools look at my app? Has anyone experienced discrimination based on where they earned their undergraduate degree?

I think it's unavoidable that one's undergraduate institution will be a factor in graduate admissions. This is for a number of reasons: 1) It puts your GPA into context: some schools are known to engage in grade inflation, at some the opposite is true, and without knowing this information it's difficult to evaluate what the GPA provided actually means. 2) Departments are not equal in terms of faculty, resources, requirements, etc. If the members of an admissions committee are not familiar with the home department of a candidate, they may question the quality of the candidate's education. One consequence of this could be that they may scrutinize his standardized test scores more. 3) Students at more prominent institutions may have worked for high-profile individuals who may be known professionally or personally to members of the admissions committee. This may make the Ad-Com members put more faith in the recommendations provided.

Having said all this, I should point out that even at the top schools in my field, less than half of the students I met (at admission weekends) came from the highly ranked schools (say the top 25) and many came from small departments from places across the country. Therefore, if you are an excellent candidate, I certainly don't think that your undergraduate institution will prevent you from being admitted to even the best programs.

[ringo-ring]

I agree with previous poster that coming from a less-recognized school can make adcoms doubt the quality of your education. They won't necessarily assume it's bad just because of the name of the school - it's just your GPA becomes much less informative if they don't have any clue about your school's requirements. But getting a good score on GRE Subject test can compensate for this.

In terms of research projects, however, coming from a top school with great faculty and resources can make some candidates less competitive, since adcoms will have a higher expectations for such applicants. This applies also to cases when student has worked with some high-profile research groups - they can overshadow the student's achievements with their name

[eco_env]

I think it's unavoidable that one's undergraduate institution will be a factor in graduate admissions. This is for a number of reasons: 1) It puts your GPA into context: some schools are known to engage in grade inflation, at some the opposite is true, and without knowing this information it's difficult to evaluate what the GPA provided actually means. 2) Departments are not equal in terms of faculty, resources, requirements, etc. If the members of an admissions committee are not familiar with the home department of a candidate, they may question the quality of the candidate's education. One consequence of this could be that they may scrutinize his standardized test scores more. 3) Students at more prominent institutions may have worked for high-profile individuals who may be known professionally or personally to members of the admissions committee. This may make the Ad-Com members put more faith in the recommendations provided.

Having said all this, I should point out that even at the top schools in my field, less than half of the students I met (at admission weekends) came from the highly ranked schools (say the top 25) and many came from small departments from places across the country. Therefore, if you are an excellent candidate, I certainly don't think that your undergraduate institution will prevent you from being admitted to even the best programs.

I suspect that coming from a highly ranked but small liberal arts college is more of a problem- research opportunities are more limited (in terms of the diversity of choices available) and you can be fairly sure that no one has heard of your LoR writers. If you've worked with people who do respected, publishable research and they say good things about you, I think you are in a good situtation, but it might be good to show with your GRE scores that your high GPA means something.

[nessa]

I went to a regionally known small liberal arts college for undergrad, and now work as an RA at a large research university in another part of the country (where no one has even heard of my undergrad). I haven't applied yet, but from my experience of how my background is regarded as an RA, I can tell you it is more difficult. First of all, people (especially those who are very concerned with prestige) assume you went to your school because you couldn't get in anywhere better, and that you must not be very smart. Secondly, they assume the quality of your education isn't that great. Even if both of those are false (which they probably are), you still have to convince people otherwise. Your GRE scores are not above average for the schools you are looking at, but they are good enough that people will not doubt your intelligence. And, the fact you've done some intelligent research, are able to think critically, etc. will help with any questions about your undergraduate preparation.

Like tso123d said, one other thing you may be missing out on is that your undergrad profs may not have the connections to advocate to people at the schools you're looking at on your behalf. However, I think that gets your application looked at more than it actually gets you in, so you may be able to mitigate it by contacting your POIs and getting your name out there that way.

[ringo-ring]

I wonder who has voted my previous post down and for what reason? I've been told by one of the adcoms that, they don't count on student papers much, since they're not sure who actually owns the credit for that paper - the student, or the group he has been into. Therefore, I think that working at one of the top research groups will make it harder to advocate your credit.

[Insei]

Good responses, thank you for the input!

Having said all this, I should point out that even at the top schools in my field, less than half of the students I met (at admission weekends) came from the highly ranked schools (say the top 25) and many came from small departments from places across the country. Therefore, if you are an excellent candidate, I certainly don't think that your undergraduate institution will prevent you from being admitted to even the best programs.

That is encouraging. You make valid points about GPA as well--I realize that a 3.85 at my current school may not be worth as much as the same GPA at Georgia Tech (a neighboring school), where a 3.30 puts you near the top of your class. Grade inflation is a real problem at a lot of schools. What I'm hoping to demonstrate with my double major, high course rigor and oodles of research experience is that I am making my institution work for me; I would have no problem defending the quality of my education if it were ever questioned, and I think that is important.

nessa makes some fine points as well. Truth be told, I did end up at my current institution because my first choice rejected me (I was a "late-bloomer", high school didn't go well). Those assumptions you talk about are exactly the judgments I fear from these ivory tower folks I'm applying to. However, I stayed at my school because it never left me wanting; everything I have ever needed has been here, including relevant research opportunities with fantastic faculty. Maybe that fact should make an appearance in my SOP!

[Edit] ringo, I don't know who voted you down, but I liked your post! Here's a bump back up

Edited March 13, 2011 by Insei

[cranberry]

While no one would admit so to me, I think coming from a no-name school does hurt you. I myself went to an academically rigorous but relatively unheard-of liberal arts undergrad and on top of that majored in a subject with a miniscule department. However, I aced the GREs to backup my uninflated GPA, had very strong letters and writing sample, and my resume showed that I was at this institution because of a prestigious undergrad scholarship. I had no publications, very limited research experience, and even less teaching experience. Even so, I only applied to top 20 programs (made sure to apply to as many as I could afford) and got into half the schools to which I applied. So, while it's definitely not easy, it's possible.

[thesnout]

I think the prestige of the program is more important than the school itself. My undergrad program and school are well recognized and well regarded so I hope that increases my chances of getting into grad school.

There are a lot of factors that influence the Adcom's decisions. I think it is best to match your research interests with that of potential POI's. If they don't want to supervise your work you won't get in.

[ayl]

Usually just a reader, but I feel like this would be an appropriate first post.

Perhaps a word of encouragement. Canadian girl coming from a lesser known Canadian university (though my specific program is quite reputable), dismal GRE scores and a mediocre GPA. Submitted my application a few minutes before the deadline because my fingers are most nimble when my hearts pounding out of my chest.

I've been accepted into Columbia, waitlisted for NYU. Currently debating the age old question of Columbia or NYU.

With these "grades plus" applications, I feel like your portfolio, resume, LORs and essays can really fill the hole.

I may just be lucky, who knows.

Stay positive and just bang out your apps at your own pace, with your own style.

When I read forums where people started apps in the summer, or revised their SOP with help of others, extreme anxiety came over me. I started feeling inadequate, especially with GRE and GPA comparisons being thrown around. In every possible way, I was under qualified. I felt behind schedule, whatever that meant to an applicant. I think passion pulled me through.

Good luck, and let's defy some stats here, eh?

[bgreenster]

I'm actually hoping that the reputation of my school helps me. I went to UVA, and graduated with an overall 3.2, which isn't bad for that school, but doesn't sound good out of context. I was on another forum where people were discussing grade inflation/deflation and someone had gone through the numbers for the top 25 universities, and UVA had the highest grade deflation of the group. However, my departments (English, Spanish, and Religious Studies) are all top-ranked, which I'm hoping will work in my favor.

Realistically, how much do adcoms know about a school's grading system? I can say there were many moments in my undergrad career where I was cursing myself for going to UVA when my friends in other schools were studying much less and getting straight A's, so that they fairly easily got into graduate programs. One big plus about going to a smaller school with less-famous professors is that you get more one-on-one attention and your professors are usually available to talk and work with you.

OP, I think that you'll be fine with your academic record and showing how hard you work and how you were able to mature through school, etc. to take advantage of everything your school has to offer. Of course, if you did the exact same at a more well-known university, things would be easier, but from what I've seen from others, schools really care about a student's enthusiasm and ability to use his/her school's resources. With good references, and a SOP that knocks their socks off, I doubt you have too much to be worried about, even if you have to put up with some snobbery once in the program

[mechengr2000]

The reputation of your school is not going to affect you.

[fumblewhat]

I come from a pretty much unknown liberal arts school, and had no problems getting into great programs this year. If the reputation of your school is a factor, I suspect its not one that can't be overcome with strength in other elements of your application.