Quitting Law School to Pursue MA/PhD

[ZugTheMegasaurus]

Hopefully this is the best subforum for this topic; it's certainly a decision! I'm currently in my second semester of my 1L year. I had a really difficult time choosing between law school and pursuing a doctorate degree in history, and I'm something like 99% sure that I made the wrong choice.

Simply put, I hate law school. I hate the subject matter; everything except criminal law is just another way of determining who gets the money in some given situation. It bores me to tears. My eyes just glaze over when I'm reading. The law school culture is irritating at best. I can't stand the constant push to shmooze and "network" with people -- as well as knowing that doing so is pretty much a necessity if I ever want a job. I can't focus and I just don't care about it. As a result, my grades are in the toilet. While I'm confident I can bring them within a respectable range at the end of this semester, I can't imagine doing this for another two years, and especially racking up $200K in debt in the process.

Moreover, I realize now that where I thought I was a professional lawyer with a strong interest in history, I think I'm actually more suited to be a professional academic with a strong interest in law. Yesterday in my Constitutional Law class, the class was discussing legal bases for American slavery, going over things like the Dred Scott case and Emancipation Proclamation. In my UG, I focused strongly on Civil War-era black history, so this topic was right up my alley. When we discussed that in class, I completely felt my attitude change. I wanted to hear what was being discussed, and I could focus on the readings, and the time just flew by. It hit me like a ton of bricks: this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

But now I'm between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, I don't want to walk away with $52K in debt and nothing to show for it. On the other hand, I don't want to sink even more in and end up doing something I hate doing.

My tentative plan is this: take a leave of absence from the law school, spend that time applying to MA programs in history. If I get accepted (which I hope is a possibility even with the bad law school grades, assuming I explain the extremely poor fit between myself and the program), I complete the MA, using the opportunity to build up good relationships with professors, ultimately using it to apply to PhD program down the road. If I don't get accepted, I can still go back to law school (since the leave of absence allows for immediate readmission) and finish my JD.

I'd love any insight anyone can give me on this matter; it's really stressing me beyond belief.

[neuropsych76]

Hi, Welcome to the forum!

I don't much about law or history degrees so I'm sure others will post with more knowledge than me on this matter. BUT, I think you should definitely pursue whatever makes you the happiest. You don't want to finish law school and be miserable your whole life. If you looked into history phds and you think you would enjoy it, than go for it! One thing to keep in mind, however, is that it can be hard to obtain funding for grad school in general and especially in the humanities. Since you have law school debt already, I would try to only apply to funded programs so you dont accrue more debt

good luck!

[space-cat]

Have you considered joint PhD/JD programs? They're fairly common--there might even be one at your current school--and that way you could transfer some credits rather than "losing" your whole first year of law school. It does sound like a JD would still be very useful for your academic career, and I would think the story you told us would be very appealing to the admissions committee for a joint program.

Regardless, good luck with the rest of the year!! You're certainly not the first person to decide that straight law school isn't for them; try not to get too down on yourself

Edited March 15, 2011 by space-cat

[stillthisappeal]

http://www.nytimes.c...ness/09law.html

It's interesting to note that the current job market for lawyers doesn't seem to be much better than the market for academics. The only difference: debt. I don't know where you are in your program, or where you go to school, but my opinion is that law school makes sense the most sense for people who are 1) independently rich and can pursue fulfilling non-profit work or 2) people who make it into top 20 schools and can anticipate a high salary upon graduation. It sounds like you don't fall into either of those categories. If that's the case, your best bet might be to "get while the gettin's good."

The PhD/JD track is a great idea, if you find a program that will accept you; however, it's my impression that this track is only offered at elite universities (for example, Duke has a well-known program, but, as anyone on this board can attest, the competition for admission is every bit as fierce as the Ivies).

Another approach that is popular with many young lawyers, at least in theory, is to work for a few years to pay off debt and return to school for something they love later on. Of course, this approach assumes that you will have the stamina to complete your program, will be able to find a job, and will be interested in returning to school in your mid-thirties, when most people are settling down to start a family.

My advice: think long and hard about whether or not your frustrations are temporary. It sounds like you're in your first year of law school, which everyone tells me is the worst. It's likely things will get better in year two and become a cake-walk for year three. Only leave if you're absolutely sure things won't get better.

Good luck.

Edited March 15, 2011 by stillthisappeal

[TransnationalHistory]

Space-Cat is right, check out joint JD/History PhD programs. I noticed these at I think every school I applied to, or at least most. And funding is available for history, and I'm pretty sure if enrolled in a PhD program you can postpone pay of student loans, so at least you don't have to worry about that debt right away.

[socme123]

I have been there, my friend. I'm a lawyer, and I'm starting a PhD program in the fall. Like you, I'm interested in law, but not in that way.

My opinion is that if you can stomach it, you should get the law degree. You don't have to choose between PhD and JD; I was just ambivalent about it which is why I didn't go JD/PhD route. (By the way, even if a school doesn't have a "joint" program, they will sometimes let you do JD and PhD concurrently on an individualized basis.) First off, you're a 1L and the first year sucks. It only goes up from here. You will have more control over the classes you take; after my first year, I never took another class about moving people's money around and it was awesome.

Professionally, there are many reasons to keep going:

(1) I think completing a law degree made it easier for me to get into the grad school of my choice.

(2) If you get a law degree, you can teach at a law school with perhaps a joint appointment in a history department. Legal history is HUGE in law schools. You might have to teach con law or crim law once in a while in addition to legal history subjects, but it's worth it because law professors make like 3x as much money as history profs and it's way easier to get publications (in law journals) and tenure. By the time you've taught in a law school for a few years, you will have made back the difference in salary of all your law school debt.

This is - if you can stomach it. No need to massively depress yourself or feel like you've wasted your life getting a JD. Skip Gates dropped out of Yale Law School his first year, and now he's a University Professor at Harvard. But I'm giving you an electronic hug, because I've been there and know you need one!

Edited to add: You can also teach in a law school without a law degree, but it's harder.

And: Don't get too thrown off by anything that happens 1L year. It's really not the best indicator of anything. All of your classmates proabbly feel the same way you do.

Edited March 15, 2011 by socme123

[chaospaladin]

Joint PhD / JD programs would be an excellent choice for your situation.