Are any of you prepared to pay for everything?

[dividedby5]

I figure this applies to all MFA's, not just the studio folks. I had told myself earlier in 'the season' that I wouldn't/couldn't go to grad school if I was offered no funding. I just wasn't prepared to take on $60k in debt for a degree with low job prospects.

Now, I've been admitted somewhere (funding letter hasn't arrived yet). The process seems is so fickle that it seems like a stupid to "throw away" an acceptance, even without funding. I feel like I've been so discombobulated by this whole process that it's like someone asking me to split one hundred dollars, but 90/10, and I'm going- well, it's better than nothing...

Any of you preparing to pay for everything? Or- will you not go rather than have debt?

[Guest Guest]

I wouldn't pay a penny for grad school in this country, It so expensive, even if I do graduate, will be paying that debt rest of my life

[gt6]

There was an excellent post on another forum. I will quote it below:

At 4%, a $100K loan paid off over 20 years means a monthly payment of over $600. Let's say that you are getting a Liberal Arts degree, where the average starting salary is $30,828. That works out to $2569 per month. Social security and Medicar takes $205 of that and state and Federal income taxes will take about $308. Health insurance and other benefits will take another $450 of that, leaving a take home pay of a little more that $1600. Subtract the $600 for your loan and you now need to live on $1000 per month.

A car payment will be (for a not-so-new used car - $10,000 @ 6% for 48 months) $235, insurance (under 25) will be approximately $125 per month, and gas and maintenance will be another $100 per month. Subtact these from the $1000 and you have $540 per month.

A one-bedroom apartment (depending on the area) might be $450 a month. That leave you $90 a month for food, utilities (including cell phone and high-speed internet). Which means you'll be using your credit cards and going deeper in debt.

Which really means you'll end up living at home, letting your parents feed and house you while animosities are building up between you and them. Which REALLY MEANS that you'll be miserable as hell.

AND THAT'S JUST THE FIRST YEAR (19 more to go).

[Guest rapunzel]

Actually, you can save a lot in ways you wouldn't even think of.

Last year, I was accepted to this MA program which gave me no funding. I didn't take it. I hung around at home, strengthened my credentials, and took on small jobs, not full time. In the meantime, I spent nothing. Avoided the mall and ate healthy, but low-cost foods. Home-made hummus wraps, plain beef and potato soup, and cous cous with raisins and lemon juice. Instead of going clubbing and buying expensive drinks (cocktails add up), I found low-cost entertainment--like community service and volunteer work. And I hung out with my friends at college to get some semblance of a social life. During this whole year, I worked my ass off artistically--with the goal of a funded MFA acceptance at the end. If you want a community while you wait a whole year (and go through the process again) try a residency program for artists. Vermont Studio Center, for instance.

Money not spent is money that doesn't need to be earned.

I applied to MFA programs this year, and I got 2 great offers so far. Both are costless.

The same thing happened to my Ph.D friend. He got accepted to this program at  that cost $36k a year. He didnt take it, and now he's in a great, fully funded Ph.D program at WashU.

Think, too, about grants and prizes.

[Guest rapunzel]

My advice is to be really stubborn about keeping your money.

Also think about super lucrative jobs. It might be against your first instincts, but think about legal assistant positions at top law firms in NYC. You would have to work about 70 hours a week, but you can save up a lot in 1-2 years. I think it's a great, untapped resource for aspiring artists who need to make enough to fall back on.

[dividedby5]

Thanks guys- I just wanted validation that I wasn't crazy for not wanting so much debt.

[DarkMatter]

This is frustrating....need to vent.

Just got accepted into the University of New Orleans last week, but no funding - potential for future funding. Just today got called for an interview for Kent State University, but there will be no funding there for the first year. Got a no a long time ago from the University of Arizona and I am still waiting on one more, the University of Oregon.

Already met the faculty at the University of New Orleans, got a really good vibe and they are excited about the work I am doing, quote "the committee was unanimous about the decision to accept you and (we) are sorry that there isn't any assistantships spots in your concentration right now." However, I will be granted in state tuition, which is cheap in Louisiana, and I still may get some scholarships and regular grants from the graduate school and financial aid. I had kept telling myself that I wouldn't go to grad school unless I got an assistantship and all was paid for, but I really feel that there are true mentors for me there.... errr. All this waiting and worry about money is driving me crazy! Any advice?

[aack]

It is a fickle process -- I applied one year and was rejected everywhere except one place that wait-listed me and ultimately did not have a spot; this year, I was accepted at one our of four places that I applied; they offered some scholarship funding, but I will have to borrow a chunk, which really worries me, especially since I am not that young. It's a very good school, but still .... I feel like if I wait and try again, I might not get any acceptances; I applied this year with the best work I had ever done. I don't know what to do.

[labmouse]

Right now with my current financial aid offers( between $0 and $16k, waiting on two more) I might wind up footing the bill for between 37k-11k a year for tuition. I also have a sizeable amount of student loans from undergrad. Although this seems like a ridiculous amount to be in debt, but I think it really depends on what you are going to do afterwards. I know that I am becoming an academic and my professor has been encouraging me to got to the most prestigious school that will admit me.

I didn't really want a house out in the 'burbs anyway...:wince:

[pointedears]

I am. I think I have resigned to the fact that I will need to pay up. I guess I always knew this but didn't want to acknowledge it. I mean, I applied to all art schools, I knew they don't give much financial aid to international students(if at all). Best case scenario? I'll win a scholarship somewhere and not need to spend anything. Worst case scenario, I will graduate with a debt of $150k or $100k(depending on which school I choose).

I might sound stupid here, but I am not scared about the debt part. I see this as an investment that I am ready to make. Plus if my parents see how serious I am about this, they just might give me a soft loan.

[labmouse]

Right on, Pointedears! My Dad has been saying "Is it really worth it?" all week. At this point after everything that I have gone through, I am not backing down and I know although my parents are worried, they will come around when they see my dedication.

[graphikchik]

I agree with a lot of what has been expressed here...it is an extremely fickle process. I like to say it's like horse judging you are putting your chances on and paying for someone opinions on your horse (or artwork as the case may be).

For me I'm ready to pay for what's not going to be covered by my scholarship (at this point only $8k tuition per year). I've been out of undergrad and working for a while now (I think I'm a bit older then most of you here) so I have a good chunk of money saved for this since grad school has always been a goal of mine. Of course it's not nearly enough to cover the three year program without either more scholarships or loans. I think it's worth the debt in the end, at least in graphic design there are some pretty good prospects for teaching as well as working in industry.

[RKSim]

I view funding a career no worse or different than funding a house with a mortgage. One of my undergrad degrees was a Business Management degree though, so I might have a different perspective of financing things in general.

The rules of thumb that were reinforced, especially in finance classes, were 'more risk more return,' and also that to fund an entrepreneurial idea (such as becoming a professional artist), you can either finance it and work full time towards your career, or you can work on the side for much much longer and have less opportunity for success. As funny as it is to say in these troubling economic times,, the American dream is built on debt. Obama's Bailout philosophy is to spend more money now to create greater earnings later.. transfers over to the two basic principals mentioned above.

And especially with us 'creative' folk, start doing some 'creative' financing..! Or you can be like one of my good friends, and run away from $100K + of debt by moving to South Korea to teach English.

Also, don't forget the intangible benefits/costs of the MFA. Personally, I would much rather be broke and happy, pursuing something that I'm incredibly passionate about, rather than making a lot of money and being miserable. After grad school I worked full time (at an art museum nonetheless!) and was completely miserable. After 8-9 hours of work every day, and a few more hours at band practice, I had no energy/time to do anything else. I Quit my job, lived off savings and credit (still am) and pursued an art career and MFA programs..

I have a crazy goal of never working a 'day-job' again. :mrgreen:

[henrystgirl]

No way.

Between my husband and my folks, I'm sure I could get help to pay up. But I've been a working artist for 10 years (though in another field). So I know how hard it is out there. And I'm not putting myself and my husband into mountains of debt when at the end of it, I'm still going to be an artist. Hopefully, a credentialed artist who can teach and bring in a little more income into our family than I have, but an artist nonetheless. You have to be such an enormous superstar to make real money as an artist. Many a famous, well-regarded artist makes (if they're lucky!) a middle-class wage on which they have to support a life of creation. Adding debt on top of that makes no sense to me.

It doesn't mean I'll pay NOTHING--I'll suck it up for a few thousand every year. But 50K-100K in debt for grad school, if I'm not going to school to be a doctor or lawyer or businessperson? Absolutely not. And I think it's unconscionable that the programs charge so much.

[Colin]

Also, don't forget the intangible benefits/costs of the MFA. Personally, I would much rather be broke and happy, pursuing something that I'm incredibly passionate about, rather than making a lot of money and being miserable...

Some unsolicited advice I got the other day was why I wasn't considering law school? "Lawyers make more money than artists!"

Thanks, Cousin-in-law Obvious.

I am not *prepared* to pay for everything since I don't have a buttload of money saved up to pay, but I am *prepared* in that I have been paying for everything as an adult for a while, so what's another $100K of debt, give or take...? At least I won't be a miserable lawyer.

[cath2024]

No.

My dream program would set me back about $175k by the time it was all over. I suspected and now have confirmed that they offer hardly any funding to anyone and I find it horrifying that they charge so unbelievably much more than it takes to run the place. (Not my dream program anymore.) I've seen even $60k (even! hah!) worth of debt absolutely crushing a friend of mine who wanted to work in international affairs/development. She had no idea how high the loan payments would be and for how long she would have to make them and how much additional would be added in interest by the time she was able to start making any payments. Should she have figured this out before she took on the debt? Of course, but just like us, she had gotten into a program she was excited about, and figured it would all just work itself out later.

I would be prepared to take on debt to fund a little bit of the cost, say maybe 10k-15k over the life of the program, but no more than that. Reading these comments on this blog solidified that instinct.

http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/05/0 ... t-pay-off/

I think I actually read all 400+ of them.

[brosenth1984]

I think a lot of you are out of your minds. The answer should be NO! In order to pay that 150K loan, you need to make at least 85-95K in order to just get by (remember, they are variable right now, and rates will rise before you graduate). How many artists are going to make that their first year out!

Money does not buy happiness, but insane debt does buy severe depression. My top choice (which is not even near the most competitive of my acceptances) offered nothing, and me they will certainly not get. Artists need funding, more than they need an MFA, i would be better off taking out loans and working in a studio for 5 years, than accruing that kind of debt in a program. yes, passions are important, and if your mom or dad can help you fine (although i might kill you and convince them to give the money to me), but if you have no other funding source than loans, screw em.

In this extremely competitive year, if you even just made it, you would be a top choice any other year, so they owe you the funding you deserve...

[Colin]

...screw em.

[snipped]

If I don't get grants/fellowships, yes, screw em... but I'll do it my way: I'll probably be dead before I finish paying off my loans. heh

Some schools have $, some don't. Oh the f well.

[tenorposaune]

My wife took on ~$100k in loans for her MFA, and we'll be paying on it for quite awhile. I have to say, though, that if you're going to go into debt for something, I think it's better to do it for education than anything else. As difficult as it can make things, I do not resent those loan payments at all. Of course, now that I'm looking to start a DMA, there's no way we can take on any more debt than what we have -- funding is absolutely required!

[sarahb78]

A friend of mine mentioned that she & her husband were able to deduct the cost of his MBA off of their taxes (the WHOLE thing and MBA's cost a lot more then an mfa). She loaned me a book on it- from what I've skimmed it sounds like it would apply for an MFA also. This of course works best for a couple when one spouse is still working (in my case my husband). I need to read more and ask my cpa a few questions about it but will get back w/ more info. Anyone else know anything about this? I'm still waiting to hear if I'll get any funding but expecting the worst:(

[Colin]

A friend of mine mentioned that she & her husband were able to deduct the cost of his MBA off of their taxes (the WHOLE thing and MBA's cost a lot more then an mfa). She loaned me a book on it- from what I've skimmed it sounds like it would apply for an MFA also. This of course works best for a couple when one spouse is still working (in my case my husband). I need to read more and ask my cpa a few questions about it but will get back w/ more info. Anyone else know anything about this? I'm still waiting to hear if I'll get any funding but expecting the worst:(

Yes, I have heard about this for MFA. there are "tests", what the IRS calls them, conditions, 1) you have to already be an artist and not just decide now you want to try art (as if) and 2) the MFA is required for your profession, or will help you in your current field, something like that. At least that's what I can remember. I'm no CPA so better to check it out for sure.

Thanks for reminding me of this! I was looking at $$ and feeling very sick and ill...

[dryeyes]

what are some grants and fellowships i can apply for

[RKSim]

I've gotta say my opinion on this has changed rather drastically after being faced directly with the option of going into substantial debt for my degree. I've only been accepted by SFAI so far, though I am on three wait-lists and I'm submitting late apps to 1 or 2 more schools. This board has definitely changed my opinion about art schools and what program might be best for me.. though everything here is arguable.

A mentor of mine brought up some very valid points that I hadn't considered in great detail. He feels that larger urban centers can be prohibitive of productivity for space and financial reasons, and he also mentioned to think about how productive I would be if I was anxious and nervous about a looming debt.

He also mentioned to consider the stigma and reputation that ivy league and private schools have, which are often associated with your MFA. On varying scales this only contributes to the commercialization of the art industry, when the work becomes good because the MFA is from Yale (though this is a valid precursor to an extent), rather than the work being good because it's good. Personally, I've noticed how conversational my work can be, and one of the things that I would like to develop during my education is my unique and personal voice. Being in a hyper-influencing urban center may or may not be detrimental toward developing this voice. This ties in to the stigma that an MFA lends in that I would rather have an objective association with my MFA/school, rather than my degree painting a picture in one way or another. Granted, a lot of this has come from thinking about the reputation that I feel SFAI has. I have heard negative things from countless people in the art community about their finances, administration, 'shock art,' trust fund kids, etc.. to the point that I almost withdrew my application. Now how ironic is it that the school I invested the least interest in has been the only one to accept me? Anyway, where this has brought me is what will people think when they see SFAI on my CV? Is this going to be productive to my personal goals as an artist?

Anyway, a lot of my opinion has also changed with the reality of doing an MFA for free becoming much more apparent. I'm a resident in Montana, and I could do an MFA there for $3500 per semester, the living is cheap, and the studios are great. I also have citizenship in the EU, where school seems much more affordable, with much more assistance. I am also already around $45k in debt, so adding to the stack has become much less appealing the closer I get to enrolling at a school.

With all the research I've done it seems like doing an MFA for free is very probable if I play my cards right. At this point unless I get a substantial financial aid package from a school, It's much more likely that I will take another year and reapply with a completely new strategy.

Now granted, this is all completely subjective to my work and my goals, which are very non-commercial. Ultimately, the same mentor I mentioned above told me to "follow my work" before anything else. So if there is anything to be learned from all of the rambling I did above, it's that another year is only an opportunity, and that if you want to get an MFA for free, you probably can.

[nathancotephoto]

I've gotta say my opinion on this has changed rather drastically after being faced directly with the option of going into substantial debt for my degree. I've only been accepted by SFAI so far, though I am on three wait-lists and I'm submitting late apps to 1 or 2 more schools. This board has definitely changed my opinion about art schools and what program might be best for me.. though everything here is arguable.

A mentor of mine brought up some very valid points that I hadn't considered in great detail. He feels that larger urban centers can be prohibitive of productivity for space and financial reasons, and he also mentioned to think about how productive I would be if I was anxious and nervous about a looming debt.

He also mentioned to consider the stigma and reputation that ivy league and private schools have, which are often associated with your MFA. On varying scales this only contributes to the commercialization of the art industry, when the work becomes good because the MFA is from Yale (though this is a valid precursor to an extent), rather than the work being good because it's good. Personally, I've noticed how conversational my work can be, and one of the things that I would like to develop during my education is my unique and personal voice. Being in a hyper-influencing urban center may or may not be detrimental toward developing this voice. This ties in to the stigma that an MFA lends in that I would rather have an objective association with my MFA/school, rather than my degree painting a picture in one way or another. Granted, a lot of this has come from thinking about the reputation that I feel SFAI has. I have heard negative things from countless people in the art community about their finances, administration, 'shock art,' trust fund kids, etc.. to the point that I almost withdrew my application. Now how ironic is it that the school I invested the least interest in has been the only one to accept me? Anyway, where this has brought me is what will people think when they see SFAI on my CV? Is this going to be productive to my personal goals as an artist?

Anyway, a lot of my opinion has also changed with the reality of doing an MFA for free becoming much more apparent. I'm a resident in Montana, and I could do an MFA there for $3500 per semester, the living is cheap, and the studios are great. I also have citizenship in the EU, where school seems much more affordable, with much more assistance. I am also already around $45k in debt, so adding to the stack has become much less appealing the closer I get to enrolling at a school.

With all the research I've done it seems like doing an MFA for free is very probable if I play my cards right. At this point unless I get a substantial financial aid package from a school, It's much more likely that I will take another year and reapply with a completely new strategy.

Now granted, this is all completely subjective to my work and my goals, which are very non-commercial. Ultimately, the same mentor I mentioned above told me to "follow my work" before anything else. So if there is anything to be learned from all of the rambling I did above, it's that another year is only an opportunity, and that if you want to get an MFA for free, you probably can.

I gotta say your post is a little inspiring for me I do wish i had a mentor. I think he may be right on, go in whichever direction your art takes you. I am reapplying next year to double the schools. The portfolio i send out will be almost completely different and my letter of intent will actually express my intent I feel as though some private schools may have more experienced staff as well as better facilities but i dont think it is equal to the debt load that comes with it. I want to leave grad school with freedom to work and create, not slavery to debt. I would love to go to SVA for instance but how is an artist ahead after working for two years and going in debt 120k? I cant even imagine what i could do with 120k in cash to work outside of the academic scene for two years.

[RKSim]

A friend of mine is graduating from University of Washington medical school this June, one of the top med schools in the country, and coming out of school after 8 YEARS (with a medical degree..!) with around $100k in debt, and he lives very, very comfortably off his loans. As soon as he graduates he will be moving to do a residency for 4 years, making $45k a year (or so) off the get go. In 5-10 years money won't matter for him anymore. He laughed when I said that SFAI without funding would cost around $100k (living + tuition).