Current Harris Student

[mppm]

Hi All,

I'm a current Harris School student and I'd like to offer to answer any questions people might have. Please feel free to PM me if you prefer.

[letsjustgo]

Perfect! I've been making myself sick the past couple of days trying to decide what to do.

I was admitted without funding but am still considering going. The debt combined with my undergrad debt would be out of this world. But based on my own research, it seems that the earnings potential for Harris grads (at consulting firms, particularly for someone like me who is interested in the finance side of things) may be worth taking on the massive debt.

What are are your thoughts on this? Have you found that even with the eco downturn Harris grads are still placing at high rates?

I have many more questions and you can expect me to post them soon! Thanks for helping us out. I know there are others in the same boat as me.

Edited March 29, 2011 by letsjustgo

[letsjustgo]

Do you know if any students do actually attend without funding?

If so, have they found outside funding sources?

Are students reconsidered for funding their second year?

Thank you!

[aliicat11]

Thanks for doing this! I was recently admitted to the Harris MPP program with funding, and I have a few questions. The program seems 1) very quant-heavy and 2) very structured.

1) How much of a focus is placed on math at Harris? What levels of math are needed to excel in the economics classes? I have an undergrad policy degree but not a lot of calculus/econ and even though the admissions committee seems to think I am prepared for the program, I am concerned. (I know there is math camp in the summer, but even with that I'm a little concerned). I'm deciding between Harris and Heinz and I really focus on implementation and management structures, and I'm concerned that the focus on economics won't serve my interest in communications and leadership strategies.

2) Also, the program seems very structured; do you feel like you have enough space with electives to apply your skills to specific interest-areas?

Finally, I am concerned about job placement after graduation, just as previous comments expressed. The Heinz-DC program has the apprenticeship component which will provide job experience and networking in DC. What does Harris have to offer in this area?

[mppm]

Perfect! I've been making myself sick the past couple of days trying to decide what to do.

I was admitted without funding but am still considering going. The debt combined with my undergrad debt would be out of this world. But based on my own research, it seems that the earnings potential for Harris grads (at consulting firms, particularly for someone like me who is interested in the finance side of things) may be worth taking on the massive debt.

What are are your thoughts on this? Have you found that even with the eco downturn Harris grads are still placing at high rates?

I have many more questions and you can expect me to post them soon! Thanks for helping us out. I know there are others in the same boat as me.

As I understand, people from Harris go into a wide range of fields including private sector, government, and non-profit. Unfortunately, I really can't speak to what current placement rates are like. I do know a number of students signed on quite early to work with Deloitte doing public sector consulting after graduation, but I'm just not that well informed about other second years' plans (I'm a first year student).

Obviously, debt is an issue and you'll have to decide what you're comfortable with. But I do think that with its quantitatively rigorous program, Harris prepares students to be competitive on the job market.

[mppm]

Do you know if any students do actually attend without funding?

If so, have they found outside funding sources?

Are students reconsidered for funding their second year?

Thank you!

I believe that a lot of students in the program do not have funding. Unfortunately, I don't know very much about outside funding sources. My guess is that most do not have outside funding, but I applied for and received a scholarship from a foundation in my home town so you should definitely pursue that kind of option. I don't think students are reconsidered for funding during their second year.

[mppm]

Thanks for doing this! I was recently admitted to the Harris MPP program with funding, and I have a few questions. The program seems 1) very quant-heavy and 2) very structured.

1) How much of a focus is placed on math at Harris? What levels of math are needed to excel in the economics classes? I have an undergrad policy degree but not a lot of calculus/econ and even though the admissions committee seems to think I am prepared for the program, I am concerned. (I know there is math camp in the summer, but even with that I'm a little concerned). I'm deciding between Harris and Heinz and I really focus on implementation and management structures, and I'm concerned that the focus on economics won't serve my interest in communications and leadership strategies.

2) Also, the program seems very structured; do you feel like you have enough space with electives to apply your skills to specific interest-areas?

Finally, I am concerned about job placement after graduation, just as previous comments expressed. The Heinz-DC program has the apprenticeship component which will provide job experience and networking in DC. What does Harris have to offer in this area?

1) The nice thing about Harris is that there are two tracks in the statistics and in the microeconomics sequence, a "regular" version and a "advanced" version. The regular version does use some calculus, but I think the material is still very accessible. The advanced versions will use quite a bit of calculus and will be challenging. Math camp will be a good refresher and there are algebra and calculus courses in the fall for people who need more background. I do think that learning the micro and stats, while sometimes painful, is important for someone who wants to do policy work, even someone interested in communications and management.

2) The first two quarters are very structured, as you will probably have no choice in your classes. However, after that you will have 11 classes to elect entirely on your own. While having a lot of abstract material up front was sometimes frustrating, I do think there is sufficient time for electives. The quarter system gives you a lot of opportunities to take a range of classes, which people at Harris use to take classes across the university (at the business school, the law school, the econ department, foreign languages, etc.)

3) A lot of students do internships in DC and for the last several years there has been a winter quarter DC networking trip to facilitate this and job hunting. Students this year met with Harris alums in positions around DC (IMF, World Bank, etc.) and also used the trip to arrange their own interviews on the side. I did not go, but I heard from those who did that it was a really valuable experience.

Edited March 29, 2011 by mppm

[enofotan]

1) The nice thing about Harris is that there are two tracks in the statistics and in the microeconomics sequence, a "regular" version and a "advanced" version. The regular version does use some calculus, but I think the material is still very accessible.

Hi mppm. Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. Can you elaborate a little more on the different versions of the statistics and micro sequences? What determines which sequence for each topic we are able to take? (http://harrisschool....rses/index.html) Looking at the course listings, can you point our which courses are the advanced courses in micro? 32300/32400 vs 44100/44200? In addition, do you know anything about the three-course sequence in political economy, the econometrics sequence, or any of the advanced statistics courses? Can MPP students take the PhD level courses in the harris school?

Also, I have seen some suggestions that we take a calculus course before attending. How necessary do you feel this is? Would a Calc 1 be sufficient?

Thanks!

[letsjustgo]

I would echo enofotan's questions and add the following (unrelated questions):

1.) Are there any students that are employed either with full or part-time work or internships while attending the Harris School? Is it recommended that students wait until they make it through the first couple of semesters before working or taking on an internship?

2.) Do all students live in the Hyde Park area or is it a mixed bag of commuters and folks who live in other Chicago neighborhoods?

3.) Looking back, what do you wish a current Harris student would have told you prior to beginning your studies at Chicago (not as a way to dissuade you from attending but to prepare you)?

* Thank you again! This is a tremendous help.

[Liquid Kitty]

As a current first-year Harris student, I figured I'd give my two cents.

To letsjustgo:

1) I don't know of anyone who works full-time while in the Harris MPP program. There simply wouldn't be enough time (at least not for us mere mortals. perhaps it's been done, but I haven't heard of it). Part-time jobs are common, however, particularly after the first couple of quarters.

2) I'd estimate that about 2/3 of the students live in Hyde Park, while the rest live mostly near downtown or on the north side. Keep in mind that unless you have a car (and most students do not), commuting from the north side is quite time consuming. I live downtown (in the South Loop), and my commute by bus is quite reasonable (under 1/2 hour).

3) I think the program is relatively in line with my expectations, so this doesn't apply to me so well. However, I'd say that in general it's important that you enjoy thinking. I hear complaints from time to time regarding the "theoretical" nature of the Harris program. Yes, most of the first two quarters is focused on theory, but if you don't understand basic economic and statistical theory, how on earth do you expect to rigorously analyze policy? The standard core sequences are certainly not unreasonably demanding, so don't let this dissuade you from coming to Harris. If you enjoy theory, and want to stretch yourself mathematically (and have the background to do so), then you can take the advanced econ or statistics sequences. Certainly, these classes are more theoretical, but if that bothers you, don't take them. That's one of the things that I enjoy about Harris; I know that there are advanced classes that I could take (whether at Harris, or the Econ department, etc.) that would never fail to challenge me. It's simply a matter of how technically-minded you are, and how much you can handle. How challenging the program becomes for you is completely within your control, since the curriculum is so flexible after the first two quarters.

To enofotan:

Yes, MPP students can take Ph.D level classes at Harris, and some do. As I mentioned above, it's often a matter of whether your math background is strong enough to allow you to get the most out of these classes. The 441/442 micro sequence assumes familiarity with multivariate calculus and linear algebra, so if you've only taken math through calc 1, I would not recommend taking these classes (started in this sequence, but dropped it since I didn't have a background in linear algebra, and didn't want to overload myself since I was taking the advanced stats sequence).

The 312/313 advanced stats sequence (or "math stats" as it is generally called) assumes familiarity with differential and integral calculus, sometimes in multivariate settings. However, the amount of integrals that you'll have to crunch through by hand is pretty limited; you need to understand them, but you're not wasting all of your time doing these calculations. Experience with linear algebra is not presumed with this sequence. If you'd like something more advanced than this, you can take classes in the statistics department that would better prepare you for the Ph.D level econometrics courses. But again, these require more of a math background.

The majority of students (2/3 to 3/4) don't take either of these advanced sequences, so don't feel compelled to do so. It's more important to make sure that you're placed into classes where you can understand the material without constantly struggling with the math involved.

Hope this helps!

[deechi]

I understand that some professors affiliated with the international policy track have left the school within the last couple of years. Can someone talk about the current status of that facet of the school? I.e. current professors, initiatives or trajectory?

Thanks

~d

[s33]

Hi mppm. Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. Can you elaborate a little more on the different versions of the statistics and micro sequences? What determines which sequence for each topic we are able to take? (http://harrisschool....rses/index.html) Looking at the course listings, can you point our which courses are the advanced courses in micro? 32300/32400 vs 44100/44200? In addition, do you know anything about the three-course sequence in political economy, the econometrics sequence, or any of the advanced statistics courses? Can MPP students take the PhD level courses in the harris school?

Also, I have seen some suggestions that we take a calculus course before attending. How necessary do you feel this is? Would a Calc 1 be sufficient?

Thanks!

For the standard MPP track, Calc I is adequate preparation.

[cplanicka]

I understand that some professors affiliated with the international policy track have left the school within the last couple of years. Can someone talk about the current status of that facet of the school? I.e. current professors, initiatives or trajectory?

Thanks

~d

I too am interested in learning more about the international track. If you hear anything, please let me know! And thanks in advance to any current student/grad who can help with this

[mppm]

I too am interested in learning more about the international track. If you hear anything, please let me know! And thanks in advance to any current student/grad who can help with this

Looks like there are a lot of current/former Harris people on here now! I'll take a stab at this one, even though I'm not primarily interested in international work. There are still a lot of opportunities to study international issues. You can take a look at the courses offered online, and you'll see that there are courses on international poverty/development, international health, international education, and security/terrorism. In addition, there is a international policy practicum open to second year students in which the class explores issues in one or two countries chosen in advance, then visits the country over winter break and writes a policy memo summarizing their finding. This year the class went to Rwanda and Madagascar. I can't really give much more detail about the class, but I think it is a really unique opportunity for people interested in international work. I can't speak very well to the trajectory of the international side of the MPP program, but I am sure the school is committed to maintaining a strong offering in this area.

Other Harris people: please add anything I might have left out!

I hope that is helpful. Let me know if you have further questions.

[mmac06]

Another question from a Harris admit...

U of Chicago seems to have a reputation of being a bit more politically conservative and right-leaning than other comparable universities. Did you find this to be true at Harris and the MPP program? How would you describe the political atmosphere?

[s33]

Another question from a Harris admit...

U of Chicago seems to have a reputation of being a bit more politically conservative and right-leaning than other comparable universities. Did you find this to be true at Harris and the MPP program? How would you describe the political atmosphere?

I would definitely not label it "right-leaning" in political atmosphere. When conversations turned to political matters I found sentiment among students to be primarily (though by no means exclusively) on the liberal end of the spectrum. There is a somewhat 'market-friendly' orientiation that is the natural product of having so many economists on faculty. I would describe it as quite apolitical, and I think that both conservatives and liberals can feel very comfortable there.

[letsjustgo]

For the standard MPP track, Calc I is adequate preparation.

And if you haven't had Calc I? My background is in the social sciences. Would you recommend I take a stats and a calc course over the summer?

[s33]

And if you haven't had Calc I? My background is in the social sciences. Would you recommend I take a stats and a calc course over the summer?

I knew a few people who went in 'cold' without any calculus, but they were at a distinct disadvantage. You are required to pass a math proficiency test at the end of math camp, and if you do not pass the test, you are required to take a math course during the first quarter. I think your life would be easier if you took some calculus beforehand, to maximize your chances of passing the math proficiency test the first time around. The first quarter is the most difficult, and it is made harder yet if you have to take math in addition to your core courses.

The answer really depends on how confident you are in your ability to quickly pick up the math skills you need over the course of a 3-week math camp.

p.s. in my cohort, about one-third of students did not pass the calculus proficiency test on the first attempt.

Edited March 30, 2011 by s33

[brian.sabina]

Hey,

I'm a current student who is attending Harris without funding. I'm using loans to pay for school, and I think it is completely worth it. I briefly looked for outside funding sources and didn't find too much low hanging fruit around the university, but I'm sure if you really worked at it you could find some scholarship money out there. Students are not reconsidered for funding their second year.

Fair winds,

Brian

Do you know if any students do actually attend without funding?

If so, have they found outside funding sources?

Are students reconsidered for funding their second year?

Thank you!

Edited March 30, 2011 by brian.sabina

[brian.sabina]

I want echo s33's comments. We took a survey in our second quarter Political Institutions and Policy Process class and it turns out that the majority of the class falls between the center and the left, but there are still some conservative people here. As far as the curriculum, it is intentionally apolitical. I've heard from multiple Professors and Deans that the school wants to teach us how to think not what to think. Especially in the core the focus is on positive not normative analysis. A tribute to this might be that we have alums who are US congressmen on both sides of the aisle.

I would definitely not label it "right-leaning" in political atmosphere. When conversations turned to political matters I found sentiment among students to be primarily (though by no means exclusively) on the liberal end of the spectrum. There is a somewhat 'market-friendly' orientiation that is the natural product of having so many economists on faculty. I would describe it as quite apolitical, and I think that both conservatives and liberals can feel very comfortable there.

[brian.sabina]

Hey,

I'm a current Harris student that is more internationally focused. Let me be clear that Harris is not as internationally focused as some other policy schools. However, I've found there are plenty of courses and activities to keep me busy now that I'm out of the core. Here are a few more thoughts in addition to the IPP:

1. This quarter I'm taking State-Building & Failure and Poverty and Economic Development at the Harris School, both of which are completely internationally focused. I also took the Middle-East Current Affairs mini-course this past fall which was great.

2. The flexibility of the Harris curriculum after the core allows you to take advantage of internationally focuses offerings from other parts of the university. The Law School has some course on Human Rights and Trafficking, the International Relations Department is top tier and has some great offerings, and the business school has a bunch of internationally focused courses.

3. There is a ton of non-course international stuff going on at Harris and the University. Harris has a whole Middle-East month during the fall. The university brings in a lot of diplomats and international figures. (We have some important person from Turkey coming in next Friday). There is also a very strong connections between the university and South America, especially Chile. There is a whole student group at Harris focused on international issues. There is an amazing International Relations workshop ever Thursday night called PIPES (you can find this quarters schedule of speakers online).

I guess my main point is that if you want it, there is lots of high quality international policy discourse going on here, but it's not going to be as spoon-fed to you as in other places.

Looks like there are a lot of current/former Harris people on here now! I'll take a stab at this one, even though I'm not primarily interested in international work. There are still a lot of opportunities to study international issues. You can take a look at the courses offered online, and you'll see that there are courses on international poverty/development, international health, international education, and security/terrorism. In addition, there is a international policy practicum open to second year students in which the class explores issues in one or two countries chosen in advance, then visits the country over winter break and writes a policy memo summarizing their finding. This year the class went to Rwanda and Madagascar. I can't really give much more detail about the class, but I think it is a really unique opportunity for people interested in international work. I can't speak very well to the trajectory of the international side of the MPP program, but I am sure the school is committed to maintaining a strong offering in this area.

Other Harris people: please add anything I might have left out!

I hope that is helpful. Let me know if you have further questions.

[letsjustgo]

Hey,

I'm a current student who is attending Harris without funding. I'm using loans to pay for school, and I think it is completely worth it. I briefly looked for outside funding sources and didn't find too much low hanging fruit around the university, but I'm sure if you really worked at it you could find some scholarship money out there. Students are not reconsidered for funding their second year.

Fair winds,

Brian

Thanks for the reply, Brian. Are there many others who attend without funding? Based on the Harris site only half of admits are funded so I have to imagine that there are.

You say that you think it's completely worth it. Could you say a little more about why you think it's worth it?

Finally, does it seem to you that most most Harris grads are placed after they graduate? And I know that there are many career tracks that people pursue, so it will vary, but what types of positions are people finding and what is their short-term and long-term salary growth look like? I am personally interested in consulting, what do you think my career prospects are coming out of school?

I don't want to sound as if I'm only coming to Harris because I'm chasing a big salary, because I'm not. But if I'm going to take out huge loans, I want to have some idea of the career prospects.

Thanks!

Edited March 30, 2011 by letsjustgo

[brian.sabina]

Hey,

To add-on to what Kitty has already said:

1) I know of a couple of students who worked full-time during the first couple of quarters, and they said it was really rough. The biggest issue is that core classes and almost as importantly core TA sessions tend to be during the day. That said, there were people who had part-time jobs and internships. Now that we are done with most of the core, it seems like the number of people who have started part-time internships has grown exponentially. I've been told that a lot of second-years also have internships during the year. I'm guessing the school would recomend waiting at least until the third quarter to start working part-time.

2) There are plenty of people who live outside of Hyde Park. For the first year I think that 2/3 Hyde Park, 1/3 Elsewhere is probably accurate. However, I think the numbers even out to 50/50 during the second year. After Hyde Park, I think that Loop / South Loop is the next highest concentration of people. I live in the South Loop and it takes me 25 minutes door to door and my bus drops off and picks up right in front of Harris. From the Loop it take 15 minutes to get to school, and maybe 25 minutes from the Lincoln Park / Lakeview neighborhoods on the Northside.

3) Yes, Harris has a quant. reputation, but I couldn't imagine studying this material without using math as a tool to understand how things work. A lot of the other policy schools are almost afraid to use numbers and I think that's to their student's disadvantage. The rest of the world uses numbers. Policy makers make decisions based on numbers! And in my opinion, the math in the standard sequences at Harris is really not that hard. Most of the hard stuff has to do with econometrics and statistics which most people don't know before they get here anyway. That said, GO TO MATH CAMP no matter what your math background. It's just as much of a social event as it is about learning math. As long as you've had some math exposure before, don't worry about the math before camp. The prof. they get to teach Math Camp is great and funny. By far the best math teacher I've ever had The format is great, no real homework, a little bit of studying for the two parts of the test which are spread out. It's just a lot of fun.

I would echo enofotan's questions and add the following (unrelated questions):

1.) Are there any students that are employed either with full or part-time work or internships while attending the Harris School? Is it recommended that students wait until they make it through the first couple of semesters before working or taking on an internship?

2.) Do all students live in the Hyde Park area or is it a mixed bag of commuters and folks who live in other Chicago neighborhoods?

3.) Looking back, what do you wish a current Harris student would have told you prior to beginning your studies at Chicago (not as a way to dissuade you from attending but to prepare you)?

* Thank you again! This is a tremendous help.

[letsjustgo]

Thanks for the reply, Brian. Are there many others who attend without funding? Based on the Harris site only half of admits are funded so I have to imagine that there are.

You say that you think it's completely worth it. Could you say a little more about why you think it's worth it?

Finally, does it seem to you that most most Harris grads are placed after they graduate? And I know that there are many career tracks that people pursue, so it will vary, but what types of positions are people finding and what is their short-term and long-term salary growth look like? I am personally interested in consulting, what do you think my career prospects are coming out of school?

I don't want to sound as if I'm only coming to Harris because I'm chasing a big salary, because I'm not. But if I'm going to take out huge loans, I want to have some idea of the career prospects.

Thanks!

I'm only re-posting this so that Brian might stop back by and see it. And if any other Harris grads want to chime in, please do.

[brian.sabina]

Hey,

I'm guessing that, as you said, about half of the people here are not funded. However, I'm not really sure of those numbers since funding isn't something that people talk a lot about.

I think it is completely worth for several reasons:

1. I'm getting a top notch policy education that is providing me with the skill set needed to make informed and smart decisions. I think that is what Harris is all about. Not telling me what to think, but how to make decisions based upon my preferences and what I think is right, and then how to defend those decisions.

2. I'm associating myself with a really powerful brand, that will be a signal to people throughout my life.

3. The people here are great, especially the students. I've made some great friends, and there are definitely people here that will be running things later in life and that I will be glad to know and be connected to.

As far as long-term earning potential. While not everyone gets 80-100K jobs out of school, some people do. I'm also interested in consulting and I hope to be working at a top tier public sector firm which would put me into that range. I got an internship with a public sector consultant for the summer. However, I have to stay that Harris also opened my eyes up to a lot of other cool jobs that are out there. One of my friends who originally wanted to go into consulting is going to work for UNICEF this summer, another is working in a National Park developing business plans for the National Forest Service. There is really cool stuff out there that I had no idea about before.

As you mentioned how much people make really depends on what they want to do. Government salaries are pretty strictly defined based upon the GS system. However the government also has loan forgiveness so that helps. Honestly, salaries out of any MPP or MPA program are not going to be MBA type salaries, so as long as people are getting jobs that are reasonably well paid, (which is happening from all of the top schools) then I think it is all kind of a wash.

I've talked to a lot of alumni and they have said that everyone gets a job when they graduate. Whether or not it is the right or perfect job for them has to do with how much time and effort people put into identifying what they want to do after school and then going out and getting it for yourself. The career service at Harris are not handing us jobs, but they are pretty supportive and make sure that we have the resources we need to be successful.

Finally, the last thing about jobs and choosing a school is looking where the schools have strong networks. Harris is really strong in Chicago and DC. Harvard is probably stronger in the Northeast. Georgetown in DC. So it depends where you might want to end up.

Hope this helps.

- Brian

Thanks for the reply, Brian. Are there many others who attend without funding? Based on the Harris site only half of admits are funded so I have to imagine that there are.

You say that you think it's completely worth it. Could you say a little more about why you think it's worth it?

Finally, does it seem to you that most most Harris grads are placed after they graduate? And I know that there are many career tracks that people pursue, so it will vary, but what types of positions are people finding and what is their short-term and long-term salary growth look like? I am personally interested in consulting, what do you think my career prospects are coming out of school?

I don't want to sound as if I'm only coming to Harris because I'm chasing a big salary, because I'm not. But if I'm going to take out huge loans, I want to have some idea of the career prospects.

Thanks!