HELP!!Choice between Stanford and Stony Brook

[Paa_Ratt]

Hi

I am an international student. I have been offered MS Stats at Stanford and SUNY SB. Stanford is rank one stats and SUNY SB is rank ten in applied maths programs. Cal and NY are both hub of stats and quant related jobs. The catch is that although I spend 60k/year at Stan, I spend 28k/per year at SUNY. Its almost half the dollars!!!The job prospects dont seem very different although the difference is in the brand name. Please help me decide. I have to reply back by 15 April!!

Edited March 31, 2011 by Paa_Ratt

[kash]

What program did you get into at SB was it the MS in statistics. If that is a case reject it, since SB has no reputation in statistics, and stanford has a fantastic reputation in statistics. Stanfords program looks good, it allows for taking a lot of electives in fields other than statistics. Even if you got into their applied math MS, i would probably still reject it but of course it depends on what you want to do as a career. Applied math and statistics are different fields.

[stansfield]

Yea SB is not top 10 in applied math and has no statistics whatsoever, I mean none. I'm not sure how these applied math rankings work but check their faculty page course page and it's pretty clear. Since you're paying anyway you might as well pay for a brandname over an unknown. no one outside of long island has even heard of SB, and you'll meet similar employers in NYC even. If you just want to get into finance then do SB. If you're actually interested in statistics go stanford and you can still land a fantastic job. Hedge funds are blooming in LA.

[Radian]

Yea SB is not top 10 in applied math and has no statistics whatsoever, I mean none. I'm not sure how these applied math rankings work but check their faculty page course page and it's pretty clear. Since you're paying anyway you might as well pay for a brandname over an unknown. no one outside of long island has even heard of SB, and you'll meet similar employers in NYC even. If you just want to get into finance then do SB. If you're actually interested in statistics go stanford and you can still land a fantastic job. Hedge funds are blooming in LA.

It is completely interesting that I am reading this "out of long island" thing of yours for the second time. Well unfortunately, I am not gonna sit here for your nonsense deduction to get spread.

It seems more like a wait-listed attitude toward a university with the sole purpose of making others disappointed ! LOL !

What reference do you use for saying it is not well known ? your own experience ? in what field ? how many companies have told you that ? how many cities have you traveled to get this idea? well that wouldn't be a wise deduction unless you are Marco-Polo ! and if you are utilizing someone else experience, then unless it is a well known reference your claim is out of the circle.

As far as I am concerned if somebody doesn't know Stony Brook, well then it is his own problem ! because he might as well be unfamiliar with the NOBLE prize ! As you probably don't know the SB is quiet prestigious for winning noble prizes both inside the campus and especially on the NBL. That was a simple reason, the rest are so long to explain.

sorry mate, but your reasoning seems completely callow to me. If you prefer Stanford, that's OK with me. but stop this "out of long island' ridiculous thing

By the way, the last time I checked the city, Stanford was not located in LA !

Edited April 1, 2011 by Radian

[stansfield]

It is completely interesting that I am reading this "out of long island" thing of yours for the second time. Well unfortunately, I am not gonna sit here for your nonsense deduction to get spread.

It seems more like a wait-listed attitude toward a university with the sole purpose of making others disappointed ! LOL !

What reference do you use for saying it is not well known ? your own experience ? in what field ? how many companies have told you that ? how many cities have you traveled to get this idea? well that wouldn't be a wise deduction unless you are Marco-Polo ! and if you are utilizing someone else experience, then unless it is a well known reference your claim is out of the circle.

As far as I am concerned if somebody doesn't know Stony Brook, well then it is his own problem ! because he might as well be unfamiliar with the NOBLE prize ! As you probably don't know the SB is quiet prestigious for winning noble prizes both inside the campus and especially on the NBL. That was a simple reason, the rest are so long to explain.

sorry mate, but your reasoning seems completely callow to me. If you prefer Stanford, that's OK with me. but stop this "out of long island' ridiculous thing

By the way, the last time I checked the city, Stanford was not located in LA !

I have spent a little bit of time there so it's 1st hand experience but it's not my undergrad. I know SB in my field very well, it's top 10 in geometry in both differential and algebraic and john milnor just won the abel prize recently. They are no doubt very good but that is the prevailing perception, I don't make the rules. Plus he got the ms in applied math not phd in math, and the applied math is not good. They are nonexistent in statistics not to mention you're comparing to stanford...

Also your questioning of the basis for my opinion is highly ironic considering you are international and haven't even been to stony brook.

You're in material sci so I don't think you would know this, I'm referring to math and applied math. I think you wandered into the wrong section to be honest. Math is their best subject by FAR but there are many employers in NYC who don't know them, since they are huge international firms and nyc is packed with ivies in math and physics. How many cities I've been to is irrelavent, just from talking to people most people haven't heard of it and that includes serious math students. How many nobel prizes is also irrelevant, in finance grad school is a losers game and stanford has better faculty I'm sure but that's not my point.

How you came to the conclusion that I thought stanford is in LA is beyond me, but it's consistent with the rest of your post. Finally it's STANFORD vs stony brook in statistics.

In other regards, SB is terrible administratively speaking and the ugliest campus I have ever seen, stanford is probably 2nd most beautiful I have laid eyes on. For specifics he can pm me.

I didn't apply or get waitlisted but it seems you don't want people to learn some facts about your precious school. I'm neither attacking SB or praising Stanford but get a little perspective please. Btw I give you the same advice as I do to all who are considering SB especially since you're paying, visit it and see if you like it first. Your enthusiasm may be premature.

I'm just trying to help him make an informed decision, here's a comparison.

http://www.ams.sunys.../STATHome.shtml

http://www-stat.stanford.edu/

Edited April 1, 2011 by stansfield

[Paa_Ratt]

Hi

I dont think the decision is as simple as you made it sound, simply based on the brand name of the universities. First of all reputed organisationS have ranked AMS department at SB in the top ten programs in US for applied mathematics and statistics. Also I see very impressive faculty profiles on the page..specifically Eugene Feinberg, Stephen Finch.

All in all I fail to agree with you, particularly the Computer Science & the Mathematics and Statistics at SUNY SB have excellent reputation in the industry, specially in NYC. ( I have done my research when I put across this statement). I also must state, lucrative as it may sound but I sure cannot afford to make a decision on how beautiful the campus is.

PS: I am not a he/him

[kash]

Hi

I dont think the decision is as simple as you made it sound, simply based on the brand name of the universities. First of all reputed organisationS have ranked AMS department at SB in the top ten programs in US for applied mathematics and statistics. Also I see very impressive faculty profiles on the page..specifically Eugene Feinberg, Stephen Finch.

All in all I fail to agree with you, particularly the Computer Science & the Mathematics and Statistics at SUNY SB have excellent reputation in the industry, specially in NYC. ( I have done my research when I put across this statement). I also must state, lucrative as it may sound but I sure cannot afford to make a decision on how beautiful the campus is.

PS: I am not a he/him

You do know applied math and statistics are two different fields right. Stony Brook has no reputation whatsoever in statistics. Check any statistics rankings you want you wont find them in the top 30. It would help if you stated what field you want to study, is is statistics? then comparing Stanford which has the best department in the world to Stony Brook is laughable. Anyway im curious when you say all reputed organizations have ranked SB in the top 10 in applied math, which organizations are these? US news certainly doesnt, and the mean NRC rankings place it outside the top 10.

[Radian]

I have spent a little bit of time there so it's 1st hand experience but it's not my undergrad. I know SB in my field very well, it's top 10 in geometry in both differential and algebraic and john milnor just won the abel prize recently. They are no doubt very good but that is the prevailing perception, I don't make the rules. Plus he got the ms in applied math not phd in math, and the applied math is not good. They are nonexistent in statistics not to mention you're comparing to stanford...

Also your questioning of the basis for my opinion is highly ironic considering you are international and haven't even been to stony brook.

You're in material sci so I don't think you would know this, I'm referring to math and applied math. I think you wandered into the wrong section to be honest. Math is their best subject by FAR but there are many employers in NYC who don't know them, since they are huge international firms and nyc is packed with ivies in math and physics. How many cities I've been to is irrelavent, just from talking to people most people haven't heard of it and that includes serious math students. How many nobel prizes is also irrelevant, in finance grad school is a losers game and stanford has better faculty I'm sure but that's not my point.

How you came to the conclusion that I thought stanford is in LA is beyond me, but it's consistent with the rest of your post. Finally it's STANFORD vs stony brook in statistics.

In other regards, SB is terrible administratively speaking and the ugliest campus I have ever seen, stanford is probably 2nd most beautiful I have laid eyes on. For specifics he can pm me.

I didn't apply or get waitlisted but it seems you don't want people to learn some facts about your precious school. I'm neither attacking SB or praising Stanford but get a little perspective please. Btw I give you the same advice as I do to all who are considering SB especially since you're paying, visit it and see if you like it first. Your enthusiasm may be premature.

I'm just trying to help him make an informed decision, here's a comparison.

http://www.ams.sunys.../STATHome.shtml

http://www-stat.stanford.edu/

Your academic comparison is quite sound to me. My point is about your generalization that the "long island is not well known". As I mentioned in my previous post this generalization especially from a person in mathematics doesn't seem rational.

Otherwise the rest of your discussion, as I mentioned, is helpful.

[Paa_Ratt]

You do know applied math and statistics are two different fields right.

Ya I DO know applied maths and statistics are two different fields, but not as wide different as you are making them sound. I aspire to pursue my masters in statistics and well I have received an admit from what you call the number one school. Technically I SHOULD know the two fields are different, what so ever difference is there b/w them.

[kash]

Ya I DO know applied maths and statistics are two different fields, but not as wide different as you are making them sound. I aspire to pursue my masters in statistics and well I have received an admit from what you call the number one school. Technically I SHOULD know the two fields are different, what so ever difference is there b/w them.

If you know the difference between them and if you know that usually applied math and statistics have different departments, why do you keep saying Stony Brook is ranked in the top 10 in statistics when that is not even remotely true it is not even in the top 30 in statistics. Its applied math people are separate from its stat people, the applied math people are usually working on computational geometry, while the stats people are working on biostats. More importantly do you want to obtain a job after this MS, and if so then in what industry. If you want to proceed onto a PhD both programs are not ideal, Stanford doesn't have a thesis requirement and it doesn't look like it devotes too much attention to its MS students, but its better than SB since you can take PhD level classes and have access to well known professors.

[Paa_Ratt]

If you know the difference between them and if you know that usually applied math and statistics have different departments, why do you keep saying Stony Brook is ranked in the top 10 in statistics when that is not even remotely true it is not even in the top 30 in statistics. Its applied math people are separate from its stat people, the applied math people are usually working on computational geometry, while the stats people are working on biostats. More importantly do you want to obtain a job after this MS, and if so then in what industry. If you want to proceed onto a PhD both programs are not ideal, Stanford doesn't have a thesis requirement and it doesn't look like it devotes too much attention to its MS students, but its better than SB since you can take PhD level classes and have access to well known professors.

Hi

I am sure you know that AMS is one department in SB at many other universities. I would also suggest that you should read up a little more on applied mathematics and statistics and the diffrences b/w them, applied mathematics has SUBSTANCIAL overlap with the discipline of statistics. It is a suggestion to keep the future applicants more informed, I am sure we do not take the advices given on this forum personally.

However, I do agree that at SB the concentartion is on Biostatistics, although the department is flexible and Statistics students work in the area of decision science, operations research, financial mathematics etc. I also agree that Stanford is ranked one in Statistics. The comparision b/w them is more practical and not based on rankings. I am almost 80% sure of taking up a job and not PhD. Hence, I would look for departments with these opportunities. Most big financial firms recruit from this department (SB) as I know. There is a striking difference in cost of attendence. So my question is whether I attend the program at Stan only for the sake of the brand name and excellent profs or not.

[Sleepy]

I understand your problem. I was also faced with a similar problem for my masters and decided to go with the less prestigious yet cheaper school.

I would suggest that if you do pick Stanford, try to do a credit overload and graduate early, that way you can at least save some of the living costs.

I think you will do fine with either programs. I have seen a lot of job listings requesting only ivy league graduates, but if someone only wants a certain kind of employee, maybe you wouldn't want to work for such a company anyways.

I think you are right, campus appearance or admin problems should not be a factor, the only factor is: is the name and the prestige worth the amount of debt?

I would try to look for some opportunities in Stanford right now and also check the possibility of overloading credits and graduating early, if you find out that none of this is possible, then go to SUNY SB.

[kash]

Hi

I am sure you know that AMS is one department in SB at many other universities. I would also suggest that you should read up a little more on applied mathematics and statistics and the diffrences b/w them, applied mathematics has SUBSTANCIAL overlap with the discipline of statistics. It is a suggestion to keep the future applicants more informed, I am sure we do not take the advices given on this forum personally.

However, I do agree that at SB the concentartion is on Biostatistics, although the department is flexible and Statistics students work in the area of decision science, operations research, financial mathematics etc. I also agree that Stanford is ranked one in Statistics. The comparision b/w them is more practical and not based on rankings. I am almost 80% sure of taking up a job and not PhD. Hence, I would look for departments with these opportunities. Most big financial firms recruit from this department (SB) as I know. There is a striking difference in cost of attendence. So my question is whether I attend the program at Stan only for the sake of the brand name and excellent profs or not.

I know that AMS is one department at Stony Brook, and trust me i do know the difference between applied math and statistics. Applied math in general has overlap with statistics, but on the academic level there is substantial differences between applied math and statistics. Many applied mathematics departments and mathematics departments do not do statistics. Look at all the top applied math programs and they either have their own applied math department or are part of the mathematics department, like at NYU, and basically none of them have anyone doing statistics. All the top statistics programs have their own statistics departments as well. My issue was with your rankings specifically when you stated that it has a top 10 statistics department, when in reality it has a good applied math department (not top 10) and when i pointed it out you simply said applied math and stat have a lot in common. Well there is a reason they developed separate rankings for statistics programs.

Onto other matters, you say the department is recruited heavily by financial firms, is that through their financial mathematics programs, or is that through their statistics programs as well. New York has a lot of very good financial mathematics masters programs. You have Cornell, NYU, Columbia, and Carnegie Mellon, and all their masters programs in financial mathematics are better than Stony Brooks. If you are talking about recruitment on the PhD level that is more believable since they do have some good people working on financial math in that department.

Edited April 1, 2011 by kash

[stansfield]

Ok here is what it boils down to essentially. The math at stony brook in all geometry related is fantastic and they are geared towards computational geometry and fluids in the applied math but you like statistics. The applied math is not that good overall and the statistics is nonexistent. If you just check faculty and graduate requirements it's clear, their qualifying exams for PhD are basically calculus and linalg and I don't really know what's going on, I thought it was a joke at first. I doubt there's a single stanford PhD admit who can't pass all their exams walking through the door. Check stanford again and it's pretty clear why its a top program. I don't know how these rankings work since some depts are called statistics, some called applied math & stat and some called applied math, or computational math. Best is to go in math and search under the subfield applied math and SB is not ranked well, at least when compared to Stanford. The top 10 also does not apply to MS in the eyes of recruiters since MS are basically cash cows for the phds so this original argument is moot. Administratively speaking, SB fails across the board.

Statistics is one of 4 tracks in their applied math and not a separate dept altogether but it is the smallest and they have like 3 people in it. I don't know Finch, but one guy alone in SB pales in comparison to possibly the best faculty in the world at Stanford. Feinberg doesn't do statistics so you're just pulling random names it seems, also they are both pretty old and that's always something to think about and a different discussion. Like Kash said SB has no reputation in statistics so you need to think things from employers perspective. He is also right that statistics is completely seperate from applied math, top stat programs like stanford, berkeley, umich, unc are all standalones and not a subset. If you want to learn statistics the answer is clear. If you want to go in finance, SB would probably do the trick but again it depends on what you want in finance. An MS at SB is not enough to land serious quantitative roles or it's very hard at least. You are surrounded by other brandnames trying to break into a profession that's already entrenched in choosing based on pedigree. Going into statistics to get in finance is perhaps not the greatest approach to begin with since there are tons of 1 yr mfe like baruch nyu columbia cuny all in NYC and many many more on the east coast but that's all useless now. Think ahead.

One thing is for sure, purely in terms of opportunities for financial services, SB has an advantage due to proximity and they have a quantitative track in their applied math. Stanford has much much better placement overall for their statistics programs in all forms of employment however.

You don't want to pay 60k nobody does but try to make an informed decision. Picking based on location and prestige alone is dumb but it's also dumb to always do the opposite. From your posts, it's obvious you don't really know what the hell you're talking about at all no offense. If you want to know specifics you can pm me. You might hate me now but that's better than hating yourself a year or two down the line.

Edited April 2, 2011 by stansfield

[Paa_Ratt]

Hi

I think Sleepy has best understood my problem. I do not think anybody can question Stanford's rank one in Statistics or the excellent faculty and the amazing coursework. I made myself clear how I am inclined to take up a job and the 60k debt is scaring me. So I am looking at the other admit I have which is financially comfortable and has good (I am not saying excellent as you say Stanford has) rewards in terms of job opportunities.

As far as hating you is concerned this is a forum to seek advice today for myself, and maybe some time later for all those who will be interested in these programs in the future. If I were you I would certainly make it a point to be less offending and more understanding. However, I remain to keep myself away from any personal opinions as at the end I would make a decision on my own understanding and do the best for myself( which I advice all the future applicants to do too). I am sure I wont have to hate myself for it then if I pick any school, Stanford or SB. I have spoken to students from both the schools and belive me they have been far more practical than the discussion here. So, I would like to end my part on this thread and anybody who wants to know what all pointers I have picked up speacially from international students at Stanford, PM me.

Anyway, thanks all for writing back.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Paa_Ratt

[stansfield]

I never meant to offend just stating some facts, but it's pointless to ask for help and refute with nonsense.

[Paa_Ratt]

I never meant to offend just stating some facts, but it's pointless to ask for help and refute with nonsense.

whatever!!