Need help desperately: SAIS Bologna or Columbia SIPA???

[inspiration]

Hey guys,

So I just heard back from SAIS Bologna today and was happy to be admitted to the International Development program with a first year scholarship of $35,500! I don't know about how second-year scholarship works but from my visit to DC last weekend, it seems that I have to reapply the second year given that I maintain good academic standing. I don't know if I could receive something similar though...

I love econ and quantitative analysis so I don't think it's a problem for me to attend SAIS. Even if I go to SIPA, I might just as well structure my education that way. So my analysis about each school is discussed below:

SAIS

Not that well-known outside the IR circle. I know people go into the private sector year year but is the JHU name as good as Columbia?

First year in Bologna: it's an advantage to go there for the European environment and tight community, but would I lose some network opportunities not being in NYC or DC given that I am planning to work there after graduation?

Well it's probably the best program in IR after all and my sense is that it is more selective than SIPA. Because I've met a ton of people at SIPA who told me they didn't get into SAIS and that's why they are at SIPA. This might be biased but that's what I felt from my visit.

SIPA

No money, and I'm not counting on second-year scholarships at this point. Even if I get it, it'll be something like 20,000, nothing compared to the potential 70,000 from SAIS.

Great NYC setting especially because I would love to either work for the UN or go into private consulting companies.

Both programs offer me courses I might like - basically econ so that is not something to worry about.

I am a college senior without work experience so I would really love your imputs/experiences from your work place, etc to tell me which program is more suitable for me. Working in consulting might be a short-time goal because I need to pay back all the debt, but in the long term, I would like to work at places like UNDP or some of the other UN branches.

Thanks a lot!!!

Edited April 6, 2011 by inspiration

[compost&recycle]

Before I start, I admit that I do have a bias against SIPA, but inspiration this seems like a clear case to me.

SAIS is the better IR school AND gives you $35,500, which is extremely high compared to other admitted students or other programs (almost a full ride). Plus you got into IDEV, which I hear is capped and hard to get into.

On the other hand, SIPA, in my opinion is a mediocre IR cash cow. Overpriced, huge (i.e. impersonal) program that relies on the Columbia name and its NY location. Much less selective than SAIS or other IR schools. The professor/student ratio is not desirable and I hear more students dislike SIPA than any other IR program. In my view, NOT worth the price or turning down an almost full ride at SAIS (the second year is usually renewed if you show good performance, I would not worry about it too much)

So my vote is clear. SAIS - the BETTER program, take the $$$, and enjoy both Bologna and D.C. (you get twice the network that way and Bologna people seem to bond tremendously)!

Good luck!

Hey guys,

So I just heard back from SAIS Bologna today and was happy to be admitted to the International Development program with a first year scholarship of $35,500! I don't know about how second-year scholarship works but from my visit to DC last weekend, it seems that I have to reapply the second year given that I maintain good academic standing. I don't know if I could receive something similar though...

I love econ and quantitative analysis so I don't think it's a problem for me to attend SAIS. Even if I go to SIPA, I might just as well structure my education that way. So my analysis about each school is discussed below:

SAIS

Not that well-known outside the IR circle. I know people go into the private sector year year but is the JHU name as good as Columbia?

First year in Bologna: it's an advantage to go there for the European environment and tight community, but would I lose some network opportunities not being in NYC or DC given that I am planning to work there after graduation?

Well it's probably the best program in IR after all and my sense is that it is more selective than SIPA. Because I've met a ton of people at SIPA who told me they didn't get into SAIS and that's why they are at SIPA. This might be biased but that's what I felt from my visit.

SIPA

No money, and I'm not counting on second-year scholarships at this point. Even if I get it, it'll be something like20,000, nothing compared to the potential 70,000 from SAIS.

Great NYC setting especially because I would love to either work for the UN or go into private consulting companies.

Both programs offers me course I might like - basically econ so that is not something to worry about.

I am a college senior without work experience so I would really love your imputs/experiences from your work place, etc to tell me which program is more suitable for me. Working in consulting might be a short-time goal because I need to pay back all the debt, but in the long term, I would like to work at places like UNDP or some of the other UN branches.

Thanks a lot!!!

[JAC16]

SAIS is the better option without a doubt. Even if it were true that SIPA is better known outside the IR circles, it is irrelevant. The prestige of the program with the people that will hire you is what matters. Apart from that, I would say SAIS is the best IR program in the nation (apart from GU which would be best if you're interested in the State department) and it is where you will be able to do the best networking. I would say go to SAIS even if both programs had the same cost. But that is not the case... you would be paying about 70K more for SIPA. You should definitely choose SAIS.

Edited April 6, 2011 by JAC16

[inspiration]

Before I start, I admit that I do have a bias against SIPA, but inspiration this seems like a clear case to me.

SAIS is the better IR school AND gives you $35,500, which is extremely high compared to other admitted students or other programs (almost a full ride). Plus you got into IDEV, which I hear is capped and hard to get into.

On the other hand, SIPA, in my opinion is a mediocre IR cash cow. Overpriced, huge (i.e. impersonal) program that relies on the Columbia name and its NY location. Much less selective than SAIS or other IR schools. The professor/student ratio is not desirable and I hear more students dislike SIPA than any other IR program. In my view, NOT worth the price or turning down an almost full ride at SAIS (the second year is usually renewed if you show good performance, I would not worry about it too much)

So my vote is clear. SAIS - the BETTER program, take the $, and enjoy both Bologna and D.C. (you get twice the network that way and Bologna people seem to bond tremendously)!

Good luck!

Hey thx compost&recycle for your insight. Hmm I do know that SAIS is a better program but as I am from China, and people there generally have not heard about SAIS, whereas Columbia is so well-know, I am just worried that if I go back, the JHU name won't recieve as much recognition as Columbia. However I do wanna work in NYC...so many one SAIS applicant for a job might stand out from 50 SIPA grads?

I can see you're choosing between some really good programs, too. Have you decided yet?

Edited April 6, 2011 by inspiration

[greendiplomat]

SAIS is the better option without a doubt. Even if it were true that SIPA is better known outside the IR circles, it is irrelevant. The prestige of the program with the people that will hire you is what matters. Apart from that, I would say SAIS is the best IR program in the nation (apart from GW which would be best if you're interested in the State department) and it is where you will be able to do the best networking. I would say go to SAIS even if both programs had the same cost. But that is not the case... you would be paying about 70K more for SIPA. You should definitely choose SAIS.

While I'm going to avoid the broad-brushtroke arguments of "SAIS is the best" and "SIPA is a cashcow" (especially considering that those claims might be true considering schools as monolithic entities, but SIPA is very strong in international finance and a few other select concentrations), no benefit that SIPA can offer over SAIS is worth an extra 70K in debt. Pack your bags for Bologna.

Edited April 6, 2011 by greendiplomat

[IPE2011]

While I'm going to avoid the broad-brushtroke arguments of "SAIS is the best" and "SIPA is a cashcow" (especially considering that those claims might be true considering schools as monolithic entities, but SIPA is very strong in international finance and a few other select concentrations), no benefit that SIPA can offer over SAIS is worth an extra 70K in debt. Pack your bags for Bologna.

I agree... If you are considering a career in international finance, SIPA might be the better program. It is definitely not worth 70K more than SAIS though. You should choose SAIS.

[inspiration]

I agree... If you are considering a career in international finance, SIPA might be the better program. It is definitely not worth 70K more than SAIS though. You should choose SAIS.

Hey thx for your response. I thought SAIS is also very strong in econ and finance? Or do you think it is an advantage at SIPA since I could cross-register at the business school?

[IPE2011]

Hey thx for your response. I thought SAIS is also very strong in econ and finance? Or do you think it is an advantage at SIPA since I could cross-register at the business school?

Both are very strong in econ and finance... but the possibility of cross registration with the business school definitely gives SIPA an edge for international finance in my opinion. Also, SIPA's location in NY is a plus. SAIS will allow you to do significantly more networking in the IR/IO world, but being in NY will allow you to do more networking in finance. SIPA's edge over SAIS in international finance are definitely NOT worth 70K though... Even if you're interested in a career in international finance, I would recommend that you take SAIS' offer.

Edited April 6, 2011 by IPE2011

[dmacd99]

SAIS and SIPA both have good figures for putting people into the private sector, though SIPA is slightly better (47% v. 40% last year). Given your interests, I'd say SIPA would be better due to location (the networking advantage is big), and because you have the option to structure a more quant&finance-heavy curriculum than SAIS if you want. however, I have to agree with the others, I don't think those advantages outweigh 70K.

[itsfridayfriday]

at the admit day they said that it's pretty hard to cross register with the business school, so while you may be able to finagle it, i wouldn't count on it as part of your education.

like everybody else, i say: go to SAIS.

Hey thx for your response. I thought SAIS is also very strong in econ and finance? Or do you think it is an advantage at SIPA since I could cross-register at the business school?

Edited April 16, 2011 by itsfridayfriday

[carpecc]

I wouldn't worry too much about the SAIS name, it's great. I also noticed your from China, SAIS has a GREAT rep in China and a large, strong network, because of the Nanjing-Hopkins program and also SAIS's really strong offering of China related classes. However I would worry about the amount of classes offered in Bologna, I hear the selection is pretty small, but since the first year you are mostly fulfilling core requirements, this might not be a big deal.

What might be more important is that SIPA offers the Finance concentration and SAIS doesn't. Cross registering with the B. School aside, SIPA has plenty of finance classes on its own, so you probably wouldn't be looking at the B. School anyways. SIPA is also (at least they say) pretty good about second year funding, so might not be a full price in the end if you need the money and get good grades year 1.

If you can afford to go to SIPA then I'd go to SIPA and do the Finance track. If SAIS has the finance classes you need and SIPA will put you in a ton of debt, then go to SAIS. Either way you'll be great, so don't stress too much.

[cckrspnl56]

While SAIS doesn't offer a finance concentration, it *does* offer a finance specialization under its mandatory economics concentration. It consists of 4 finance classes in addition to the 4 core economic classes.

[inspiration]

at the admit day they said that it's pretty hard to cross register with the business school, so while you may be able to finagle it, i wouldn't count on it as part of your education.

like everybody else, i say: go to SAIS.

Thanks a lot for your input. What's your impression of SIPA after attending the open house? Was it quite impressive or did they just throw a bunch of famous people like Jeffery Sachs to speak?

[itsfridayfriday]

Thanks a lot for your input. What's your impression of SIPA after attending the open house? Was it quite impressive or did they just throw a bunch of famous people like Jeffery Sachs to speak?

the school itself is great, they just weren't very good at selling it. in the energy/environment panel the head of the department could only cite the relevant classes one can take as a SIPA energy student, and was very hazy on specifics of the capstone consulting project and internships/jobs students get with that concentration. i would have found it more helpful to get that information, as it isn't on the website, but c'est la vie. a few of the other professors, particularly in some of the regional studies panels i stopped by, were quite impressive and were able to articulately advocate for SIPA vs. SAIS or Fletcher. the basic argument was that both SAIS and fletcher are strong policy schools, and will enhance the skills that you already have, whereas sipa is housed within a broader world-class university, which enables you to take courses that can broaden your understanding of an issue. this professor's example was of a student who could take an indo-persian literature class with a south asia concentration and, in doing so, deepen and expand his/her scope of knowledge of the field. the one thing i didn't like was that when several of the professors talked about the strength of columbia they would talk about the selectivity of its undergraduate college, which i found to be a little shady -- although they did say that SIPA students were the best thing about teaching at the place.

re: $$, it looks like FLAS money is abundant at SIPA and not as competitive as a research assistantship, although that could be wrong. FLAS would pay for 100% of tuition + 15k, so maybe look into that (re: funding).

[inspiration]

So when I'm about to decide to go to SAIS, I just realized being in Italy for the first year will not allow me to intern in the US the summer between first and second year. As an international student, the F1 visa only allows me to enter the US 30 days before school starts so I won't be able to do an internship on a student visa. I understand that I could obtain a B visa or some other type to work during the summer, but then I have to leave the country and obtain a student visa before I reenter for the fall semester. This is too much hustle for me even to think about at this point. So I am wondering how important it is to intern in the US if I would like to work here after graduation? Is it nearly impossible to get a job if I have never worked here before? I did three internships during undergard years and none of them was in the US (2 in Asia, 1 in Europe) so I would really want a chance to intern in the US tough decisions. I guess the problem will be solved if I choose SIPA though. Any thoughts on the importance of the summer internship???