HARRIS OPEN HOUSE

[pure7b]

hi all,

after the harris open house event, will you want to go to the school?

thanks.

[letsjustgo]

I'm curious to hear peoples' experiences as well. Maggie described it as a "dog & pony show," so I can't imagine those of us who couldn't attend missed anything too substantive. With that said, do tell us how it was.

Edited April 10, 2011 by letsjustgo

[mmac06]

I'd like to hear any reactions as well. I wan't able to make it.

[Slow]

After being there for about an hour I was pretty much sold that this was the perfect school for me. They basically emphasized the quantitative nature of the program, the easy access to university-wide resources and classes (such as more advanced economics/statistics/political science), the 'Harris brand' that employers look upon favorably, and that they will push you and challenge you at every turn, even if it means putting you in PhD-level econometrics classes.

However let's just say the school was "less than generous" with their funding so I am most likely going to CMU Heinz instead. A shame, but I'm slowly coming to terms with it as April 15th approaches.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Slow

[b00ts]

I have to say I came away feeling very mixed about the program after On the MaPP. In some ways, it's the perfect program for me, and in some ways it is a nightmare. I talked to numerous current students (both first and second years) and administrators.

The Good:

1. The program is highly quantitative, but multiple tracks exist for people of different backgrounds and aptitudes.

2. Opportunities for paid research exist.

3. Working part-time is common and recommended.

4. It is expected and recommended to take classes in other UChicago schools (business, social work, etc.).

5. Free beer every other Thursday!

The Bad:

1. UChicago is really research oriented, so your interaction outside of class with professors will probably be pretty limited.

2. Apparently most of the professors who did international policy stuff have departed in the last few months (not because of some dramatic episode, just a freaky coincidence), so the stuff there may be lacking.

The Ugly:

1. Very few of the current second year students (graduating in two months) have jobs lined up yet, and some alumni on the alumni panel admitted that some of their friends had struggled to become employed afterward, particularly those with not much relevant work experience going into the program.

2. The career services woman, Lydia Lazar, seemed completely insane. During her presentation, a few students walked in 5-10 minutes late and she made some pretty rude sounding comments about how she always starts on time because she "respects YOUR time." She presented data about expected earnings for graduates but said that their data set was limited to people who reported their earnings, so who knows how accurate it even was. A few current students told me that Career Services is pretty unhelpful, but I have found that to be true at all institutions of higher education.

3. One prospective student asked Maggie in a question-and-answer session what the admission rate for Harris was, but she refused to say anything other than "it's competitive." A current student told me that for his year, the admit rate was about 70%...not exactly what I would call competitive.

Basically, I would love to come to Harris, but going into $126,000 of debt for it (I received no funding), particularly with the not-so-great seeming job prospects afterward seems like a REALLY BAD IDEA.

Edited April 11, 2011 by b00ts

[Slow]

2. The career services woman, Lydia Lazar, seemed completely insane. During her presentation, a few students walked in 5-10 minutes late and she made some pretty rude sounding comments about how she always starts on time because she "respects YOUR time." She presented data about expected earnings for graduates but said that their data set was limited to people who reported their earnings, so who knows how accurate it even was. A few current students told me that Career Services is pretty unhelpful, but I have found that to be true at all institutions of higher education.

Just wanted to add a bit to this. Lydia did seem a bit over-the-top, but I would say in a good way. I think I would feel a lot more comfortable with someone like her running the show than with the people that I saw from either Maxwell (unenthusiastic) or Heinz (ridiculously inexperienced).

As far as the earnings statistics, it seems about the same as most other MPP/MPA programs for new graduates, which is another reason why I find it difficult to reject a school that's actually offering me a substantial scholarship.

[enofotan]

Did anyone talk to the financial aid folks? For those of us that didn't receive any financial aid, did they discuss how the loans will work? Are there private lenders that will give loans to cover what the federal programs do not?

[letsjustgo]

wow, I have to say that's extremely disconcerting. I had considered coming to Chicago without funding based on the idea that career prospects after graduation and growth in the future are extremely bright. Maybe I need to reconsider.... Anyone else have another perspective?

I have to say I came away feeling very mixed about the program after On the MaPP. In some ways, it's the perfect program for me, and in some ways it is a nightmare. I talked to numerous current students (both first and second years) and administrators.

The Good:

1. The program is highly quantitative, but multiple tracks exist for people of different backgrounds and aptitudes.

2. Opportunities for paid research exist.

3. Working part-time is common and recommended.

4. It is expected and recommended to take classes in other UChicago schools (business, social work, etc.).

5. Free beer every other Thursday!

The Bad:

1. UChicago is really research oriented, so your interaction outside of class with professors will probably be pretty limited.

2. Apparently most of the professors who did international policy stuff have departed in the last few months (not because of some dramatic episode, just a freaky coincidence), so the stuff there may be lacking.

The Ugly:

1. Very few of the current second year students (graduating in two months) have jobs lined up yet, and some alumni on the alumni panel admitted that some of their friends had struggled to become employed afterward, particularly those with not much relevant work experience going into the program.

2. The career services woman, Lydia Lazar, seemed completely insane. During her presentation, a few students walked in 5-10 minutes late and she made some pretty rude sounding comments about how she always starts on time because she "respects YOUR time." She presented data about expected earnings for graduates but said that their data set was limited to people who reported their earnings, so who knows how accurate it even was. A few current students told me that Career Services is pretty unhelpful, but I have found that to be true at all institutions of higher education.

3. One prospective student asked Maggie in a question-and-answer session what the admission rate for Harris was, but she refused to say anything other than "it's competitive." A current student told me that for his year, the admit rate was about 70%...not exactly what I would call competitive.

Basically, I would love to come to Harris, but going into $126,000 of debt for it (I received no funding), particularly with the not-so-great seeming job prospects afterward seems like a REALLY BAD IDEA.

[alec]

I would dispute some of what b00ts has mentioned.

(1) There were multiple alumni panels; the one I went to were all placed into- what they referred to as- dream careers. They also discussed how MPP offers more transferable skills which are marketable in diverse employment sectors.

(2) The anticipated incoming class is about 125-135 students; I don't recall anyone inquiring about the acceptance rate at the Q&A. We were all asked to introduce ourselves and I have to say I was impressed by the quality of prospective students. Most graduated from prominent universities and colleges- Harvard undergrads, Chicago undergrads, Darthmouth undergrads, UC Berkeley undergrads etc.- plus, a more than handful work(ed) at places like the federal reserve banks, private consulting, etc. The ones I talked to had offers from other equally competitive programs but were leaning towards Chicago. I didn't find any prospective student who didn't belong. Admitting 70% of the students is statistically unlikely considering that this was a record admissions cycle.

(3) After inquiring from the current/ past students, they did mention some grievances with the career office. However, they added how the office is going through a complete face lift. Apparently, they fired the career office staff last year and brought in a brand-new team led by Lydia Lazar. She wasn't personable but seemed focused and tenacious. And yes, she didn't have all the info from past years but that's partly because she's been at her job for less than a year. I liked how she didn't sugar-coat anything and gave an unvarnished perspective. She was clear in saying that the career office would not place any student into a job but it's the student's responsibility to obtain a job. The office would simply assist students in matching and locating jobs.

(4) They also have two Nobel Laureates on the Harris faculty, out of 5 or 6 at the University.

(5) Hyde Park might be an insular place but they make sure that you get outside experience. They will try and assign you a mentor who would assist you in drafting your career goals, expanding your network, and contacting potential employers.

_________________________________________

My Dislikes:

(1) Yes, the faculty in international policy seems woefully insufficient but I guess you could address that deficiency by enrolling into classes offered through the Booth School and the Dept. of Political Sci. or Economics.

(2) The funding seemed scarce. You could possibly obtain RAs/ TAs but that would not remit tuition in any manner.

_________________________________________

I think it is a strong program and prides itself on being quantitatively and academically rigorous. They kept emphasizing how you'll get your money's worth here (and I believe them)- keep pushing you to think harder because you can never learn enough. For instance, If you're an Econ major and do well on the Math placement test- you'll be placed in the PhD public policy courses in economics. AND it's University of Chicago: Home of F. Hayek, M.Friedman, G.Becker, S.Levitt, R.Posner, etc. The bad is the scarce funding; you might accumulate tons of debt and start out with an average income of 60,000; might be at a comparative disadvantage in the job-market if coming straight out of undergrad to MPP (like myself).

Edited April 12, 2011 by alec

[alec]

Did anyone talk to the financial aid folks? For those of us that didn't receive any financial aid, did they discuss how the loans will work? Are there private lenders that will give loans to cover what the federal programs do not?

They had a small desk to which you could go to and inquire about financial aid. I wish they would've done a whole segment on it. If you're a permanent resident or citizen, you can borrow the whole cost (tuition/ room & board) from the federal loans. You would get about 1/8 in subsidized and the rest unsubsidized.

[dman1]

wow, I have to say that's extremely disconcerting. I had considered coming to Chicago without funding based on the idea that career prospects after graduation and growth in the future are extremely bright. Maybe I need to reconsider.... Anyone else have another perspective?

I was at the Open House and was similarly unimpressed with the career services presentation (every other aspect of the Open House was top notch). That said, you can watch the 2010 presentation (from a different woman who seems more knowledgable) online (http://harrisschool.uchicago.edu/students/new-students/onthemapp.asp). The 2010 presentation provides some useful stats that were missing from this year's presentation. For example, apparently Chicago had a 62% employement rate at graduation in 2009. This is similar to Georgetown (the other school I am currently considering), which had a 68% employement rate two months after graduation.

Edited April 12, 2011 by dman1

[heregoes]

A note from a Wagner Masters grad: Within each class of graduates there's tremendous diversity as to who looks hard for jobs while in school,attends networking events, builds contacts through professors and outside the school (you dont want to be competing with your entire graduating class for the same pool of jobs) and who does not and that is reflected in who has a job at graduation. The real value of a career services office is teaching you how to be effective at the tasks that constitute the pre-employment employment search and maintaining a good database of alumni who are committed to advising and helping students. At this stage in the game, there are no placements. Finally, all data the earnings data for all schools is self-reported (I get yearly emails asking me to update my work & salary info). As for the low employment rate, this is not an easy time in the public policy job market.

For all these reasons, I would think that the weighting of a career services presentation should be relatively low compared with a lot of the other (both good and bad) attributes folks are describing.

Just wanted to add a bit to this. Lydia did seem a bit over-the-top, but I would say in a good way. I think I would feel a lot more comfortable with someone like her running the show than with the people that I saw from either Maxwell (unenthusiastic) or Heinz (ridiculously inexperienced).

As far as the earnings statistics, it seems about the same as most other MPP/MPA programs for new graduates, which is another reason why I find it difficult to reject a school that's actually offering me a substantial scholarship.

[pure7b]

No offense, I just think no schools will promise to place you in a particular position. There is no guarantee to get a good job. A person who graduate from a prestigious school may get unemployed. I have a friend who still cannot get a satisfying job after she has graduated from columbia for 2 years. But i think the reputation of the school does benefit to us when we hunt jobs. And I am certain that we will get better economic courses and quantitative skills from Harris than most schools. These skills and knowledge will always make you be competitive in the job market.

and some alumni get good jobs in international market. I watched the video of the 2010 open house event. I remember a MPP graduate became a manager for a microfinance project in India.

Edited April 12, 2011 by pure7b

[letsjustgo]

So was anyone who was leaning toward attending Harris dissuaded from attending by 'On the MaPP'? I didn't get to attend, and it seems there's a mix bag of reactions to the weekend visit, but I'm still likely to sign on for fall. I'm just curious to hear people's final thoughts before the deadline.

[b00ts]

I'm still going in the fall. I know that everyone is perceiving many of my comments as negative, but I was just trying to be honest about what I learned at On the MaPP for the benefit of those who weren't able to attend. All institutions are a mixed bag. The Harris School seemed strong enough for me in the ones that matter.

Good luck with your decisions. See you in September!