History programs, can I get in?

[Thedude22]

Hi all. I recently graduated from a low ranked third tier school, but I received a 3.85 overall and 3.98 major gpa. I also graduated in the top 4% and have a solid application otherwise. I did amazingly terrible on the GRE math section, so unless I re-take it I'm not so sure if I should even bother applying to decent programs. Despite this I still want to get into a highly rated programs and there are a few schools that don't even require the GRE that I would really enjoy anyway. However I get very extreme opinions from my professors ranging from "long-shot" to "sure thing" on whether I'll get in or not. But without the GRE I'm a little confused as to just what grad programs will put a focus on, here are four that I am very interested in, I'd like to know just what these MA programs are looking for and if I can get in.

1. Northwestern- Heavy hitter of a history program, fits well with my interest in African history (though I only took two courses). I have a great paper I could use for my writing sample, and branch that off for a research proposal on an expanded version, also have a great recommendation from a widely respected Doctor of African History. Still this is Northwestern. I feel like my application would have to be flawless to even be considered, but I really don't know. I also don't really speak any languages and I read they like to see fluency in your subject area, not learning Yorba before October.

2. University of Toronto- Requires a 3.3 gpa minimum and then all the bells and whistles every app likes. I don't really see a really strong emphasis on African history or Asian history (secondary focus) but they do have a specialization in colonialism that lines up well with my research. It's ranked 29th in the world. My favorite professor said it is extremely competitive and that getting in is a "long shot" for anyone. I am getting so many words of encouragement from canadians and U of T grads I talk to on the net though, it makes me feel like I have a good shot. I often forget that I am an "international" student in Canada. So this has to be taken into consideration as well, not sure how that effects things.

3. McGill- 3.3 gpa minimum, I barely know anything about this program except it is ranked 18th world wide and doesn't have a GRE requirement. I figure I might as well apply even though I'm not keen on living in Montreal.

4. University of British Columbia- 3.3 gpa minimum. They have some Asian history specialties I like and is a great recruiting ground for Seattle employers, which is I city I'd like to live in.

All in all I know I could greatly expand my scope with an improved GRE score, but unless I get it to the elite percentile, I still won't stand much of a chance at many of the top American universities and if I'm going to grad school I want to go some place really nice. I don't have an insane amount of focus into one area, which may be a problem. I had a very diverse course load in college and really only got interested in African history my Junior year. Anyway any advice or opinions about these programs and if I can get in will be greatly appreciated.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Thedude22

[TMP]

Read that thread about what prior applicants have said about GPA and GRE. You've already cleared the hurdle of just having met the 3.0 GPA minimum for many universities. The GRE is going to change, don't bother re-taking it.

Why are you looking only at Canadian universities?

You need to learn this fast: Take everything that professors tell you with a grain of salt. The encouraging professors just have a lot of faith you and see potential in your work and you should keep their optimism in mind when you're struggling with the application process. The discouraging professors are (mostly) being realistic about the life of an academic, especially these days when competition is insane. Some of them just want you to get out in the real world and work for a while to be sure that academia is where you REALLY want to be. Nobody can truly assess your chances until they've stacked you up with other applicants, which they won't know about until January.

Ultimately, you will need to learn to believe in yourself in order to feel confident. Be self-aware about your confidence level. Too much can lead to deep disappointment, anger, and regret down the road if things don't work out and you are more likely to make unrealistic decisions about your school list. If your confidence level is too low, people will notice it through your statement of purpose and any conversations you may have with the programs. Also, you are more likely to be at risk for the "imposter syndrome," which is basically underestimating your ability to succeed and this is absolutely prevalent in academia.

[Thedude22]

Read that thread about what prior applicants have said about GPA and GRE. You've already cleared the hurdle of just having met the 3.0 GPA minimum for many universities. The GRE is going to change, don't bother re-taking it.

Why are you looking only at Canadian universities?

Well *sigh* I'll tell you right now, I got a 260 on the quantitative. There is terrible and then there is my score, I know. I have a learning disability so really causes some issues for me, The fact it's changing may actually help me because I have issues doing even simple math and at least they have a calculator now. Regardless I still think my position is valid even though it comes off as lazy. At best, even with much study I'm looking at MAYBE a 1000 and that is just not enough to get into most top programs. As I am likely only getting a MA I really feel as if I need to go for broke on the school quality. Those three canadian universities are all ranked in the top 50 worldwide, I think I'd be hard pressed to find that kind of quality in the US even with a 1000 GRE score.

[Safferz]

I'm a student at University of Toronto -- it's a really great school to study Africa, with strong Africanist faculty in many different departments, including history. In the history department we have two African history professors, and both are wonderful. McGill is a good school, but the funding situation is not that great. I'm also not sure if they take direct-entry Ph.D admits, which are uncommon in most Canadian universities (I know UofT typically takes 1-2 a year, the rest have MAs). UBC isn't a school I associate with Africa/African Studies either -- the names that come to mind in addition to UofT are York University, University of Alberta, and Carleton University.

I agree with ticklemepink that you shouldn't be limiting yourself to Canadian schools because of your GRE results. I know I'm certainly trying my best to get out of here! There are far more important aspects of your application than GRE or even GPA, like your letters of reference, statement of purpose and writing sample. Have you written the GRE yet, or are you nervous about your practice scores?

Also, have you thought about applying to programs in the UK?

[natsteel]

I think you are overestimating the weight placed on GRE scores overall but particularly the Q score. Unless you're doing a quantitative-based field like economic history or demographic history then most programs won't really care what your GRE Q score is. I also think you are putting too much weight on rankings. For example, my GRE V was nothing to shout about, my Q was below 600, and my AW was 4.0 and I got into Yale. Your writing sample, LORs, and SOP are much more important than your GRE scores. That said, language is extremely important for those outside of American history... if you have no language skills in your proposed field, that would be much more of a weakness in your application than your GRE scores. But, I agree with the others, don't limit yourself to Canadian schools or American schools that don't require the GRE... apply widely to schools of varying "rankings" or reputations to give yourself the best shot.

[Thedude22]

I'm a student at University of Toronto -- it's a really great school to study Africa, with strong Africanist faculty in many different departments, including history. In the history department we have two African history professors, and both are wonderful. McGill is a good school, but the funding situation is not that great. I'm also not sure if they take direct-entry Ph.D admits, which are uncommon in most Canadian universities (I know UofT typically takes 1-2 a year, the rest have MAs). UBC isn't a school I associate with Africa/African Studies either -- the names that come to mind in addition to UofT are York University, University of Alberta, and Carleton University.

I agree with ticklemepink that you shouldn't be limiting yourself to Canadian schools because of your GRE results. I know I'm certainly trying my best to get out of here! There are far more important aspects of your application than GRE or even GPA, like your letters of reference, statement of purpose and writing sample. Have you written the GRE yet, or are you nervous about your practice scores?

Also, have you thought about applying to programs in the UK?

I have, both the UK and Ireland. Toronto is only 9 hours away from my home town like an hour from the US. I like the fact it's a new country but not at the same time, I go to Ireland/UK across the pond and I am unquestionably a foreigner in a far away land. Not sure if I want that. I did take the GRE and like I said I did awful, like really really awful due to the math. 830, yeah ridiculous. I have a learning disability which really hurts me there, got an 570 V and 4 AW there which are both above average.

Do you know many Americans at U of T? Do they mainly take people from elite American Unis or is it mainly based on your other factors? Do foreigners still get funding? Other than not knowing any African/Arabic languages and going to a poorly ranked school I think my application looks pretty good. If I knew I was going to grad school there I would probably spend the next year learning Arabic or something.

[Safferz]

Do you know many Americans at U of T? Do they mainly take people from elite American Unis or is it mainly based on your other factors? Do foreigners still get funding? Other than not knowing any African/Arabic languages and going to a poorly ranked school I think my application looks pretty good. If I knew I was going to grad school there I would probably spend the next year learning Arabic or something.

I know many Americans here! The history department funds all Ph.D students they admit, including international students. American schools generally have better funding, but the stipend is enough to get by in Toronto. I don't think what school you've gone to for your undergrad is a factor in admissions at all. Like natsteel points out, it's your statement of purpose, letters of reference and writing sample that are far more important. I also get the impression that UofT doesn't emphasize language skills as much as other schools I've looked at, but it's expected that you'll acquire competence in a relevant language (or two, depending on your field) by the later years of the Ph.D program. French is the most common language picked up by Africanists, but of course this depends on your research interests.

I can't comment on your GRE scores, or whether or not you should consider re-taking it (I'm only beginning to prepare for it now, and plan to write it at the end of July), so I'll leave that to folks who have more experience with the admissions process from this last cycle. But I think your energies may be better spent on refining your research interests so you have a strong statement of purpose come application time, and preparing other important aspects of your application. If you have time, studying a relevant language will help. And don't shy away from applying to American schools. UofT is a good school, but it certainly isn't UMich-Ann Arbor, Northwestern, Wisconsin-Madison, or the Ivies, when it comes to studying Africa.

[Thedude22]

I know many Americans here! The history department funds all Ph.D students they admit, including international students. American schools generally have better funding, but the stipend is enough to get by in Toronto. I don't think what school you've gone to for your undergrad is a factor in admissions at all. Like natsteel points out, it's your statement of purpose, letters of reference and writing sample that are far more important. I also get the impression that UofT doesn't emphasize language skills as much as other schools I've looked at, but it's expected that you'll acquire competence in a relevant language (or two, depending on your field) by the later years of the Ph.D program. French is the most common language picked up by Africanists, but of course this depends on your research interests.

I can't comment on your GRE scores, or whether or not you should consider re-taking it (I'm only beginning to prepare for it now, and plan to write it at the end of July), so I'll leave that to folks who have more experience with the admissions process from this last cycle. But I think your energies may be better spent on refining your research interests so you have a strong statement of purpose come application time, and preparing other important aspects of your application. If you have time, studying a relevant language will help. And don't shy away from applying to American schools. UofT is a good school, but it certainly isn't UMich-Ann Arbor, Northwestern, Wisconsin-Madison, or the Ivies, when it comes to studying Africa.

Thank you for the reply! I always like talking to people who actually go to the school I want to get into, especially the exact program. Is there much of a Military history presence there? My best writing samples and recommendations are in the field of African History but while it's a bit cliche', I am still quite interested in Military History. I did not see it on the extensive list of courses so I assume not.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Thedude22

[Safferz]

Thank you for the reply! I always like talking to people who actually go to the school I want to get into, especially the exact program. Is there much of a Military history presence there? My best writing samples and recommendations are in the field of African History but while it's a bit cliche', I am still quite interested in Military History. I did not see it on the extensive list of courses so I assume not.

Not that I'm aware of. We do have a few professors in international relations though, and I'd imagine some of their work relates to military history.

[StrangeLight]

ubc doesn't have anyone that does africa. in the history department or any other department. they can't even manage an african studies minor. sometimes they hire lecturers to teach a southern african history survey course to undergrads, but that's it. they won't accept you because they don't have a program for you.

also, if you're looking to get a history PhD and becoming a professor, getting a degree in vancouver won't get you hired in seattle. academia doesn't have the same sort of regional feeder program thing that business schools do, for example. and if you're not looking to get a PhD and become a prof, then why do you want the history MA?

if you really want the chance at living in or near vancouver, check out simon fraser university. i think they have africanists? and u victoria has africanists too, if i'm not mistaken. it's been a few years since i checked their department page.

[ReallyNiceGuy]

I am so thankful I found this site due to threads like this; it's great to hear first hand information from students at University of Toronto (a place that is certainly on MY list) and remarks from people with incredible scores, CVs and so on. Thank you!

[natsteel]

You need to learn this fast: Take everything that professors tell you with a grain of salt. The encouraging professors just have a lot of faith you and see potential in your work and you should keep their optimism in mind when you're struggling with the application process. The discouraging professors are (mostly) being realistic about the life of an academic, especially these days when competition is insane. Some of them just want you to get out in the real world and work for a while to be sure that academia is where you REALLY want to be. Nobody can truly assess your chances until they've stacked you up with other applicants, which they won't know about until January.

Ultimately, you will need to learn to believe in yourself in order to feel confident. Be self-aware about your confidence level. Too much can lead to deep disappointment, anger, and regret down the road if things don't work out and you are more likely to make unrealistic decisions about your school list. If your confidence level is too low, people will notice it through your statement of purpose and any conversations you may have with the programs. Also, you are more likely to be at risk for the "imposter syndrome," which is basically underestimating your ability to succeed and this is absolutely prevalent in academia.

I think a lot of this is down to the fact that many professors went through the application process so long ago. Also, those who teach at schools without graduate programs become out of touch with the current vagaries of the process. Those vagaries are the reason why it's smart to apply broadly.