Chances for MPA/2 at hks and other top programs

[CARRY]

Stats:

Age 28 and 2/3

First class honours (equivalent to 3.8 - 4.0 GPA) in economics from LSE

MSc Economics Pass from LSE (fully funded by a scholarship) I specialized in international economics and wrote a decent model based thesis. the reason i got a pass rather than a merit was because i took advanced micro and got absolutely screwed in it. i would have been better off taking advanced macro in hindsight.

4.5 years trading emerging market derivatives for a bulge bracket bank in London (good references, left as a senior associate)

highlights of my job:

-regularly attending meetings with deputy finance ministers and monetary policy committee members from these countries who were interested in finding out what 'the market' thought of there upcoming bond issue/fiscal policy etc

assume 720 GMAT (i haven't done it yet so maybe that's cheeky) (i want to do the gmat as i know hks accept it and i think it is better suited to my skill set, plus i can apply for an mba as well if i so choose)

here's the unorthodox bit:

I left my job to go and study Arabic 2 years ago. this was for several reasons: I realized that the stuff i found interesting was the policies that these countries were pursuing and not pricing interest rate derivatives. also bonuses looked bad (and they were) and I felt that i was trading a lot of things in far away countries without actually knowing much about the places (sob sob ;-) ). It had always been a personal ambition of mine to study the language (properly, not just a couple of phrases for ordering tea in a cafe) and now i'm approaching fluency in it (i speak the levantine dialect but also read in fusha, also my gf only knows arabic so i'm at the level where i can have a meaningful relationship in the language). anyway, the point i'm trying to make is i left to do something i found interesting and not because i had to (wasn't fired, made redundant or left to avoid any of these). also, the language isn't such a shot out of the blue as i have some interesting military experience but ultimately turned down that option (i.e deployment) to pursue my language study. the region i'm in at the moment is experiencing a huge upheaval and is actually quite scary so i have some good stories/experiences/insights. now my language skills are up to scratch i intend to get an internship centering around economic consultancy/development.

i appreciate i've put a lot up here, but i want to give as fuller picture as i can. my questions are threefold:

1) What are my chances at HKS, SIPA, Berkley, WWS and Georgetown?

2) should i be applying for the MPA or the MPA2?

3) I have a strong econ background - will that count against me, i.e. if you already have a masters in econ why add to it? (my answer is that i want a more development focus to my studies)

4) Is my pass in my masters a big deal?

5) Is my age a big deal?

Thanks in advice for all your advice/comments.

[Damis]

Going to add my two cents, as I'd love to see your questions get answered:

1. If you are applying to these schools for their MPA, it's better to take the GRE, not GMAT. For dual programs combining an MBA/MPP or MPA, I believe the GMAT suffices for both, but am not entirely sure.

2. After looking over profiles of individuals that have applied and been accepted to the programs you highlighted, I'd say you stand a very good chance of gaining admittance. There are so many variables at play, however, that one can never be quite sure of anything. WWS is the most difficult out of those schools.

3. The strong quantitative background will definitely help you out, as many folks are often denied admission because the respective programs require strong economic/statistical/mathematical skills. Your masters will help you out anyway, by the way, as they'll see you're capable of graduate level work.

4. I don't think the "pass" mark is, in any way, consequential in this regard.

5. You'll find that your age will be near, or even below, the average of your cohort.

6. I think you should apply for MPA...as MPA2 seems to be offered for individuals with 10+ years of experience.

Best of luck!

[CARRY]

thanks Damis, i appreciate you taking the time to craft a response. some responses to you:

1) I will have to take the GRE as well, so it's time to get the vocab books out, but I will take the gmat anyway. the math skills are directly transferable but the verbal is different.

3) it's obviously been a while since i've done econometrics etc, so i wouldn't mind being taught a lot of that stuff over again as i am thinking about an econ type role at a bank as well and the econometrics would be useful for that. right now i have some good experience in that area (trading) but not research per se. i'm not saying i'd definitely go for it, but i'd want to keep my options open.

6) I agree with you on the mpa2, but thought it better to ask what others think just in case.

thanks again.

any more comments from anybody? tips, advice etc? thanks.

[abogs78]

I agree with what Damis said...I think you are better of with the GREs. In case you have not noticed, the new GREs don't emphasis vocabulary problems anymore. ETS has restructured both the quantitative and verbal sections. The antonyms section has been scrapped and replaced with more comprehension passages and I think some other adjustements have been made to the format as well. I will suggest to you take a look at ETS's website and decide if you want to take the GREs early which will require the need to study for the vocab stuff or later which will not require vocab stuff because it will be scrapped starting with the exams in August and September plus there is a 50% exam fee discount as well for these two months. Check ETS.org about the details.

Since you have a solid math background, I don't think you should have any problems meeting the quant stuff/requirements. I was actually in investment management for three years at an investment bank before I decided to apply for an MPA program when I got an opportunity to go back to my country in Africa to do some development work. May I ask if you already have some volunteer experience or community service ideas you will highlight in your SOP? I think this might be important when you are trying to make the connection as to why you want to go for an MPA/MPP program since you don't have the traditional NGO, non-profit, development...backgrounds, although schools are always looking for a diversed student body in their program.

I also agree with Damis that unless you have an extensive work experience, getting in an MPA2 program will be quite hard. I have heard that you need to have been like a mayor of a city or the personal assistant to the World Bank President to get into these programs. I am not sure a trading background with some Arabic language experience will qualify you to get into the program since you are required to have had an extensive international development, NGO, non-profit..etc experience to apply to these programs and they are very very selective.

I don't think a pass is an issue. They will look at your overall grades, SOP, recommendations, GRE scores and transcripts to make a decision.

I don't also think your age is an issue. I am 27 at the moment and I got into three of the schools you are planning on applying to for their program (Berkeley, SIPA and WWS - going to WWS this fall! Wooohoooo)...I did not apply to Georgetown and HKS gave me a rejection (ouchhh!!!).

So, I really think you should do well in your GREs, write a wonderful SOP (start early on this one), get great recommendations (start very early on this one, so that you are not chasing people around at the last minute) and sit back and relax with your gf once you submit your applications. Goodluck!

thanks Damis, i appreciate you taking the time to craft a response. some responses to you:

1) I will have to take the GRE as well, so it's time to get the vocab books out, but I will take the gmat anyway. the math skills are directly transferable but the verbal is different.

3) it's obviously been a while since i've done econometrics etc, so i wouldn't mind being taught a lot of that stuff over again as i am thinking about an econ type role at a bank as well and the econometrics would be useful for that. right now i have some good experience in that area (trading) but not research per se. i'm not saying i'd definitely go for it, but i'd want to keep my options open.

6) I agree with you on the mpa2, but thought it better to ask what others think just in case.

thanks again.

any more comments from anybody? tips, advice etc? thanks.

Edited May 3, 2011 by abogs78

[CARRY]

thanks for your reply abogd28 and congratulations on your acceptance, you must be chuffed.

I think you are spot on about the mpa2, that was my take on it as well, i.e. they expect some serious work experience in that field, but i'm totally fine with that.

With regards to the ngo work experience i haven't got any yet. but i think i can find some half decent stuff in the next month or so in the region that i'm currently in. i did actually work for an economic consultancy out where i am (the owner is a former world bank economist), but i left after a bit as i felt i was doing all the work and he was getting all the money. i think i could go back there and work for free if i asked him, but i'd only do it two days a week as my main focus is my arabic. to be honest when i came out here i focused entirely on my studies (literally i only people english in the eight or so hours a week that i teach it) and i think that has been reflected in my ability level in the language now. i would say i'm better than the vast majority of people studying arabic as a full time degree, but then what would you expect, i've been living out here for almost two years now.

getting back to the work experience thing, do you think a couple of hours a week for an economic consultancy is enough (it's not exactly high level analysis to be honest, more like lower level mgt consultancy stuff) or do you think i should go for a UN type thing? Also, although i don't have a typical ngo background, i did look at emerging markets from a slightly different side, i.e. from a macro/fiscal perspective and it's that kind of macro econ experience that i would stress in my application. anyway mate, what you reckon?

thanks for all replies.

[CARRY]

bump

[egmpp2010]

I think your admission chances are fine. You can certainly describe your work experience in a relevant way. Not everyone in these programs has worked for NGOs or government and private sector experience is sometimes valued as adding diversity, provided that the connection between the work experience and the degree is clear. At least at WWS and Berkeley (and probably the others), you'd be just slightly above average age for the programs, but not noticeably. Berkeley's average age is 27. I'm not sold on the usefulness of the degree for you based on what you wrote and I definitely think you'll need to answer that question convincingly in your statement of purpose. Most of the programs are fairly structured -- 1/2 your units are taken up in core courses that are aimed at providing skills similar to those you would have learned in your master's with perhaps some additional policy writing or politics classes. At most, then, you're talking 5 or 6 classes in development. That does not a development expert make from the standpoint of most employers. You might get in some good networking and I guess you'd signal your interest in public service, but it seems like an expensive way to get those things if the classes don't add anything and you already have an advanced degree. To be honest, I would make sure you've talked to people who have the jobs you're interested in holding before you sink two years and potentially thousands of dollars into another degree that may not add too much to your resume. You might be better off just interning at the UN or an economic consultancy and seeing if you can turn that into full-time work.

The MPA/2 at HKS actually sounds like the best option to me on paper if you're intent on going back, since you design the curriculum. I think the earlier poster was confusing the MPA/2 with the mid-career program, which would be hard to get into and probably not a good fit. I would ask the admissions office, though.

Just my thoughts. Good luck!

Edited May 5, 2011 by egmpp2010

[CARRY]

thanks for your advice and comments egmpp2010. I guess I have several reasons for wanting to undertake the program, they are:

1) networking (in my opinion the best place to get exposed to a range of employers is on campus)

2) I want to get my skills back up to scratch in econ. this is important if i want to work as an economist as it has been a long time since i have done the technical stuff.

3) i actually quite like study anyway - this might sound silly but i think a lot of people identify with it

4) it's the most formal way into a job in that area - lots of companies and organisatiions have quite rigid requirements, i.e. they like to take people that are already on programs or in other jobs, i've certainly seen this in banking. no matter how highly i might value my arabic study there will always be someone who will see it as a bit of a doss.

anyway, it comes down to enjoying that field of study and wanting to have access to the employers in that area. You are right, it is a lot of money, but i think long term it has the potential to enhance my career prospects. i actually much prefer the idea of an mpa to an mba even though people seem to favour the mba especially for finance, but in my opinion you learn all the things necessary for the job while you are doing the job. an mba like most degrees is just a signaling device. i think an mpa is also a signaling device, but it has the added benefit of actually teaching you something useful and in my opinion very interesting. does that sound enough?

are you currently enrolled on a program? also, what would you advise with regards to further internships etc? thanks

[CARRY]

bump

[Elsa]

Hey Carry,

First of all : best of luck on your applications.

I think you've been mislead on the qualifications you need to get into HKS MPA2. I got in, I am 27, 3 years full time work experience + 2-3 years of part-time internships. I do have a solid work experience but still, only 3 years full time. I've met with several of future classmates, same stories. 3 years on average, solid, top level but hardly more than 4 or 5.

You have a pretty good shot at HKS, good luck.