abogs78

Josephine, may I suggest that you contact the admissions office of each school to get an answer to your question. Each school will be in a better position to offer an advice regarding financial aid in my view. However, if I were to make a personal suggestion, I don't think you should allow your GPA to be a hinderance from getting good aid from these schools. There are a lot of criteria to consider when these schools pick their students including who gets financial aid: recommendations, SOP, resume, work experience, etc. So GPA is not the only thing that is important! Good luck with your applications.

Let me see if I can help my fellow international student. I think schools in the US are quite forgiving when it comes to the low verbal and AWA scores for international students. If this would help, I scored a 610 in my verbal, a 730 in Q and 3.5 for my AWA. I applied and got into some of the schools you are looking to apply to: WWS, Harris, Columbia SIPA - MIA program as well amongst other schools. If you have time, retake your GREs again because I will not tell you not to do it. It is surely up to you if you want to retake it. However, if you want to conserve your energy and just focus on your application, then make sure your SOP is ver solid and if possible flawless (grammar free, well structured and easy flowing) to convince the admissions department at these schools that you are a great candidate despite your low verbal scores. In addition, get really great recommendations too. Your background is unique: you are an international student, you have work experience in both private and public sector related arenas, you speak different languages even though some might be basic, you have core quantitative courses and you have travel experience as well. Your background is similar to mine in so many ways particularly in the areas of work experience, languages and travel experience plus I am international as well. You definitely have a shot. Don't let your low verbal score deter you from applying to these top schools. WWS offers a full scholarship and a generous living stipend if you get in, so apply there. I was told not to even bother with WWS with my score but can you imagine how much I will be kicking myself if I had not applied! There you go...apply to your dream schools above and also consider these as well: University of Michigan, Carnegie Mellon University, Syracuse University, New York University and London School of Economics (if you want a school in Europe). You can also check US News website. When you get there look for graduate school rankings and check for the Public Affairs category. This will give you a list of the top MPP/MPA schools in the US including their specialties. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have additional questions.

Instead of cracking jokes why not offer some advice. He/She already said they need advice for international students thus it is possible they don't know US university rankings! Jeez!!!

ADollarninetynine, I don't think it makes sense for you to come to the MPA/MPP forum to feel the pulse of people here regarding jobs prospects after graduation. Some of us just got into schools and the last thing we need is someone telling us ahead of time that some law school smucks believe that MPP/MPA degrees are worthless. If you have heard from folks in law school that MPA/MPP are worthless, then you need to be the one to make up your mind regarding why you are going for an MPA/MPP degree in the first place. I am sure there are a lot of people who will say going to law school is a waste of time as well because of the high price tag of attending law schools, without any idea whether you will get a job or not once you graduate. I am sure you can say that about any degree. Getting an MBA or a JD does not lead to jobs just like that particularly in this economy. It is all about what you bring to the table, your experience and sometimes, knowing one or two people in the job arena you want to work in at the end of the day could also be useful. So, like others rightly said, how about apply first, go for your MPA/MPP and then decide if in fact it is really worthless. Pheewwwww......I just got pissed off with that line "'MPAs are pretty much worthless' line." I guess you need to ask Ban Ki-Moon, Klaus Schwab, David Petraeus, Paul Volcker and Eliott Spitzer if their MPA/MPP degrees are worthless

Perhaps you should look for the MPA/MPP forum for HKS and ask the folks who are currently in the program or recently admitted.

Well SIPA did not give me anything regarding scholarships. I knew it was a long shot anyways because they are quite stingy with funding for first year students plus I am an international student. However, WWS came through with a full tuition scholarship and $22,000 for my living expenses! Without any hesitation, I accepted in a heartbeat. Of course that is not the only reason why I accepted their offer, it is a great program as well Goodluck with your applications.

I agree with other people. My scores were lower in all categories compared to yours and I got into SIPA and WWS (going to WWS this fall). Save your energy, get a glass of wine and work on other parts of your application. Good luck!

Well if WWS does not think GREs are important then I will be the first to give them a handshake. Why should any school allow a 4hr plus exam in one day determine who their best candidates might be when factors like GPAs, work experience, recommendations and SOPs are far better choices. Personally, I think these tests are a bunch of BS and it does not help that it tends to favor people who are from the United States while international students struggle especially with the verbal part... Do I really need to learn so much vocabulary which I will barely use when I am writing papers or having a normal concersation with people? If you ask me it is a bunch of BS....so let us applaud WWS for getting this part of the application process right. Perhaps this is the same reason why some prestigious institutions are doing away with the SATs at the undergraduate level. In any case, whether WWS admits people with low GRE scores does not mean it is still not prestigious afterall they only admit between 9 to 11 percent of their applicant pool each year qunote name='policywonk64' timetamp='1307471401' post='257586'] Hey Everyone -- I was looking at Princeton WWS's data on MPA admissions. Specifically, the relationship of those who applied with certain levels of GRE scores versus those who were offered admission. Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but it seems like the GRE isn't as significant at the WWS. Check it out: Applied with GRE Score of: 700 – 800: 57% 600 – 699: 27% 500 – 599: 11% Admitted with GRE Score of: 700 – 800: 66% 600 – 699: 26% 500 – 599: 6% If having a high GRE score (defined as 700 and above) was really that important in WWS admissions, wouldn't we see more of a lopsided relationship in this data. 27% of applicants had a GRE between 600 and 699. Yet, when you look at the pool of people they admitted, 26% had GRE scores from 600 to 699. Now, if it were 26% of the 27% percent who applied with scores between 600 - 699 -- that would mean something. But, it's 26% of the total applicant pool which is pretty consistent with the lower number of people who applied with that range of scores. As for the 700 - 800 data. It's not like applicants with that range of GRE scores did exceedingly well in their admission rate. The difference in the applicant to admit pool is +9% points. Definitely better than the -1% difference in the 600-699 pool -- but still not huge in my book. The one caveat that I can think of is that these ranges are still pretty large. Not so much the 700 to 800 range -- anything beyond 700 is pretty much "max points in that category" range. But maybe that range had a bunch of 690s and not too many 610s. But, with the data presented -- it certainly doesn't seem like Princeton cares too much about your GRE so long as you get above say a 650. Thoughts?

I thought everyone had to make their decision by April 15th?

Just an info....WWS is quant heavy depending on the concentration you plan to focus on at the school. Good luck!

This is my 2 cents: get some full-time work experience to get a better idea of where you want to be career wise. I went into investment management for 3 years and I was not fulfilled. I then decided to go into the international development field and I have had no regrets, thus the reason why I applied to go for the MPA program this fall. I will suggest you get work experience either in the finance field or international relations/trade arena,and see if you really like it instead of jumping straight into the public policy/Econ arena immediately. The last thing I don't want you to experience if you finally get into a master's program straight from undergrad and then have regrets later because you did not test the waters after college. In addition, work experience is valued highly during the application process especially for top public affairs schools and it is even more important when you graduate from your master's program. In terms of the GRE a lot of schools will tell you there is no cut off because your application is viewed holistically thus while a GPA might be mediocre ( I am not saying yours is by the way), work experience might be the highlight of an applicant's file that gets them into a great program. Of course, I will suggest that you should do well on your GREs however it is important to point out that a 1600 will not necessarily get you into a top school if other components of your application are not the best compared to the competitive applicant pool that applies to schools like WWS, HKS, Goldman, Yale, Michigan, etc. Good luck!

Yes, I think you should be fine. Lay out the issue comprehensively and give a good analysis of policy issues that should be addressed to tackle the issues. Another suggestion: if it is a required essay from one the schools you are applying to, I am sure you can ask someone from the admissions office on how best you should approach the question. Good luck! Oh yes, you are right we do have some dumb folks on this forum who make stupid remarks like the one you received earlier. Ignore such people

Actually I will suggest you abide by the length suggested by the schools you are applying to and if you have to go over the length, always use the 5% to 10% rule (i.e. If you have an 800 word essay, don't go over more than 80 words) although I will suggest you stick to the page length or word count because adhering to instructions and having a cogent/precise SOP is viewed favorably. My rule is put yourself in the Admissions committee's shoes. Do you want to read a 500 word essay that goes over by 50 words from 100 applicants? That is an extra 5000 words you have to read when you could be napping, reviewing other applicant's materials, watching TV or reading a book. So keep it short and stick to the guidelines. Also watch out for these words: you are required vs we recommend, when you are reading the instructions concerning the length of your SOP. The former gives you no wiggle room while the latter gives a little chance to play around with the length! Goodluck!

Applying to 10-11 schools does not necessarily mean people are exceptionally paranoid. Unfortunately, especially for folks who are international students, our admissions rate into top schools in the US is lower compared to domestic students. The ration is about 60% to 40% of the entire student body or in some cases 80% to 20% in favor of the domestic student body that are eventually admitted so we (international students) have it really tough and we have to compensate for that by applying to more schools to increase our probability/chances of getting into at least one or two schools. We all have our reasons for applying to so many schools and it does not necessarily have to do with anything related to been paranoid. Thanks Peace in the Middle East!

I agree with what Damis said...I think you are better of with the GREs. In case you have not noticed, the new GREs don't emphasis vocabulary problems anymore. ETS has restructured both the quantitative and verbal sections. The antonyms section has been scrapped and replaced with more comprehension passages and I think some other adjustements have been made to the format as well. I will suggest to you take a look at ETS's website and decide if you want to take the GREs early which will require the need to study for the vocab stuff or later which will not require vocab stuff because it will be scrapped starting with the exams in August and September plus there is a 50% exam fee discount as well for these two months. Check ETS.org about the details. Since you have a solid math background, I don't think you should have any problems meeting the quant stuff/requirements. I was actually in investment management for three years at an investment bank before I decided to apply for an MPA program when I got an opportunity to go back to my country in Africa to do some development work. May I ask if you already have some volunteer experience or community service ideas you will highlight in your SOP? I think this might be important when you are trying to make the connection as to why you want to go for an MPA/MPP program since you don't have the traditional NGO, non-profit, development...backgrounds, although schools are always looking for a diversed student body in their program. I also agree with Damis that unless you have an extensive work experience, getting in an MPA2 program will be quite hard. I have heard that you need to have been like a mayor of a city or the personal assistant to the World Bank President to get into these programs. I am not sure a trading background with some Arabic language experience will qualify you to get into the program since you are required to have had an extensive international development, NGO, non-profit..etc experience to apply to these programs and they are very very selective. I don't think a pass is an issue. They will look at your overall grades, SOP, recommendations, GRE scores and transcripts to make a decision. I don't also think your age is an issue. I am 27 at the moment and I got into three of the schools you are planning on applying to for their program (Berkeley, SIPA and WWS - going to WWS this fall! Wooohoooo)...I did not apply to Georgetown and HKS gave me a rejection (ouchhh!!!). So, I really think you should do well in your GREs, write a wonderful SOP (start early on this one), get great recommendations (start very early on this one, so that you are not chasing people around at the last minute) and sit back and relax with your gf once you submit your applications. Goodluck!

I am with "braindead" on this one. Your essay should be like a story of a life journey: How did you decide/what event lead you to think there is a need for you to get a MPP/MPA degree even though you already have a law degree/consulting experience? Is there something in particular that you want to address or even more interesting, do you have a topic in law school which you will like to combine with your public policy degree to get a better understanding of what it really means to you? (e.g environmental law, human rights advocacy issues, foreign aid regulatory dynamics...etc). You need to articulate why you think a particular school is best for you to get a better idea of why you should pursue your MPP/MPA degree there. What topic/.burning issues do you want to address post graduation? Is it something related to international development and you feel that the MPA-ID program at Harvard will give you the quantitative and qualitative skills to address them or is it something related to environmental/sustainable development and you feel Columbia or University of Michigan is the best program to engage yourself in their curriculum to do so? Are there specific professors who teach in certain public policy programs you are so eager to work with or attend their classes? Do you have specific classes in certain schools which you believe will give you the required foundation you are looking for? Be careful not to be too generic in terms of the reasons why you are applying to a specific school..e.g I am applying to Harvard because it is a globally ranked school and its professors are the best in the field of public policy." Yes, all the schools will expect you to write a little bit of "kiss ass" paragraphs so that you can get into their schools but then why our school...? You need to emphasis that very well! I cannot tell you how important this part is while you are writing your SOP but I am sure you already know that . At the end of your SOP, you can then write about what you think you will gain at the end of the program which will shape your short-term and long-term goals. Of course, don't forget to mention what these goals are in your SOP as well. I really think if you can break your essay down into: 1) the beginning - Why do you want an MPP/MPA 2) Why you think an MPP/MPA is necessary at this point in your career even though you already have a master's degree 3) Why you do think a specific school or program is the best choice for you and why you think you are a great fit for the program 4) Your goals once you graduate - where do you see yourself making an impact in the world......you should be fine. So as you can see, this is really a story, not some professional essay as some people suggested. Don't forget that the admissions officer has hundreds of essays to read. Of course, I am not suggesting you write something you will send to a colleague or your neighbor who lives next door. All I am saying is craft your story careful, straigh to the point and very readable - meaning let the paragraphs flow from one to another so that is can be read easily. An admissions officer only has about 5mins at the most to go through your essay, so start with a captivating story at the beginning and something that keeps drawing them to your essay until they read it to the end! But of course, scrap that quote you have at the beginning. This SOP is about you and you alone. Referencing some guy is going to appear to the admissions folks that you are lazy and just looking for a way to fill up space. So focus on yourself, focus on the school you want to attend and then focus on yourself again at the end of your SOP on what you think you can do for this world! This method worked for me, like braindead, although I applied to 10 schools and I got into 8 (including 2 Ivy League schools and Chicago Harris). Thinking of it now, I wish I did not but it was not too bad because I was not the one paying for the application fees Like my boy Ice Cube, once said, "You can do it, if you can put your back into it." Goodluck and I wish you the best with your applications.

Appreciate the bumping Nimesis!

Okay, it is past the deadline to respond to your WWS offer. So who is matriculating this fall at Princeton? Count me in for the MPA program and I hope to see you all in the Fall fellow Woody Woers!

HumbleBee, I don't know if you are a guy or a gal, but let me say this: you are my hero/heroine for what you said below! Life shouldn't always be about what it is in for me at all times. Sometimes we need to make sacrifices for the benefit of man kind and the greater good. Although I did not get into HKS I will be matriculating at a school that gave me a full ride, thus debt is not an issue when i grafuate. However, when I look back at where I am today, I am glad I quit my Wall Street life two years ago and decided to go back to my country and make an impact in the lives of the rural people who are marginalized in our society in W. Africa. Do I regret making such a transition? Of course I enjoyed the money and material things that came with working at a prestigious bank but if I had to make this transition again, I will do it in again and again and again! I think if folks in our society started this idea of dropping the attitude of me, me, me and me alone, I really think our world might just a little bit better

I heard that the MPA degree increasingly includes a substantial element of management education sitting alongside public policy and public administration thereby bringing it closer to the MBA degree. I am not sure how true this is, just a thought I guess. Good luck to everyone with your choices!

So are you saying people should not bother applying for MPP degrees and just go to business school? Or just look to obtain a dual degree program? I am just curious and if you don't mind me asking, have you earned an MPP degree hence the reason you think is not worth it or are you a matriculating student in the MPP program at Harvard and you are now having a second thought on going ahead with the MPP degree? I know so many questions right...and if you don't mind answering this question as well, do you think an MPA degree is much better than a MPP, since an MPA emphasizes more managerial and technical skills compared to an MPP, at least according to some websites I looked at...thanks!

Wow researchworks, this was really unnecessary. If it really gets to you that Stella keeps hammering the fact that she got into HKS, I suggest you PM her. This is just childish to say the least. Whatever happened to being happy for people when they are celebrating. Quit hating and celebrate. Peace!

Did anyone attend the Hosting Weekend held in March? Will love to hear about observations in terms of strengths highlighted, issues that were covered, career services, internships, classes/curriculum, social life, post grad job opportunities, alumni network...etc. Other suggestions are welcome! Oh and if you have decided to attend WWS after the hosting weekend, please let us know WHY?

I have to agree with what the previous folks have said. It makes sense to go to UMN with a full ride than go to a school where you will incur a lot of debt. Unless you have someone paying for your tuition and living expenses at GSPP, I will take that UMN offer quickly like a kid who got offered a icecream! Better to be sure you are not going to be coming out of school with debt particularly with the situation that the US government is in at this point in time. You never know what the future will hold in terms of job offers but it is better to graduate from school without debt and no job offer than graduate and then worry about both a job and the debt on your neck . I was in the same situation as well, when I got my offer from GSPP vs Columbia. While GSPP is highly ranked compared to Columbia, GSPP gave me some money and Columbia gave me nothing, I was leaning towards Columbia as well because of the whole Ivy League factor. Although I actually got a better offer as time went on and I had to turn down both GSPP and Columbia. I guess if you feel GSPP is a better destination to your career objectives, then I will say consider it (of course, not putting reputation into consideration if this is the case) however, if you feel both GSPP and UMN will give you the same satisfaction career wise, I will say ride that UMN offer like a cowboy!

Perhaps you should use your acceptance to HKS as a strategy that will get Darmouth to take you off their waitlist. Reinforce your interest in the dual degree program. You never know that might be the thing that makes the MPP/MBA possible. I am using the same strategy at U Michigan as well. I got into Michigan's Ford School with funding and I used that in my update letter to Ross to get me off their waitlist. Hopefully that will work! Good luck!