Applying to 15+ CS Phd Programs

[President]

I want to get admitted to the best program possible (I have a list of top 30 schools that all have research areas/centers in my area of interest). Phd admissions is unpredictable, but most online sources indicate six or seven as the appropriate number of grad school applications.

If Money and Time is NOT an issue, then what are the potential drawbacks of applying to 15 CS programs?

My view:

-I'm thinking one drawback might be that it could cause a slight inconvenience to a recommender.

-It might make me look like a prestige hungry person who is only applying to top 30 programs with no safeties.

[alexpap]

Imo you should not apply only to the top30. It is important to have safety schools. If you apply to 15 schools, choose the 5 best, the 5 that you think that are pretty good and have a chance and 5 that you would like to go but are not so prestigious. I applied to 20! last year but I had already discussed with my recommenders this number. In the end it made them a little bit tired, but noone refused to continue, and in most cases you will fill online the majority of their information.

So, I don't think that you should be concerned about how arrogant you might look, but if you really have a shot in all these schools. There is great competition, more and more applicants every year, less positions due to the crisis. Don't spend 1500$ just like that. Maximize your chances... and good luck!

[OH YEAH]

I want to get admitted to the best program possible (I have a list of top 30 schools that all have research areas/centers in my area of interest). Phd admissions is unpredictable, but most online sources indicate six or seven as the appropriate number of grad school applications.

If Money and Time is NOT an issue, then what are the potential drawbacks of applying to 15 CS programs?

My view:

-I'm thinking one drawback might be that it could cause a slight inconvenience to a recommender.

-It might make me look like a prestige hungry person who is only applying to top 30 programs with no safeties.

I applied to only top 20 programs. I'm going to give the opposite advice of the person above: only apply to schools you want to go to. Sure, apply outside the top 10 (there are some great top 20 schools), but I see no point in attending a "safety-ranked" school unless you want a "safety-ranked" job afterwards.

Don't worry about being a "prestige hungry person." Academia is tough, and you want the best possible for yourself. My opinion is that there is a dramatic difference between good schools and "safety" schools -- in terms of professors, in terms of your peers, in terms of job opportunities/collaboration opportunities...

I can imagine money not being an issue, but don't kid yourself and say that time won't be an issue. It takes a long time to write statements of purpose. If you're gonna do 15, at least order them in terms of importance so you know how to allocate your SoP time appropriately.

[President]

Imo you should not apply only to the top30. It is important to have safety schools. If you apply to 15 schools, choose the 5 best, the 5 that you think that are pretty good and have a chance and 5 that you would like to go but are not so prestigious. I applied to 20! last year but I had already discussed with my recommenders this number. In the end it made them a little bit tired, but noone refused to continue, and in most cases you will fill online the majority of their information.

So, I don't think that you should be concerned about how arrogant you might look, but if you really have a shot in all these schools. There is great competition, more and more applicants every year, less positions due to the crisis. Don't spend 1500$ just like that. Maximize your chances... and good luck!

Thanks for the reply! I really think you understood my situation. Could you tell me what you said ti explain the number of applications that you decided to send out? One reason why I just CANNOT imagine myself going to a low-ranked school is because I'll be taking the PhD that I earn back to my Home Country. The hiring process for academic positions are very different - despite my father being an academic, it may be difficult for him to push things forward for me if my degree is coming from an unknown institution.

But there's another reason: My research interests are broad and inter-related enough to a point where I can find a good "fit" to each of these departments that I've selected (Not interested in top 5 nor Harvard, however). Above all else, it seems like some of the most cutting edge research being conducted in the U.S. occurs at these top 30 institutions; at least the research areas that these schools have research centers and groups in.

P.S. Is it true that the CS GRE isn't important as long as your scores aren't terrible?

[newms]

Can you find 15 schools which would be good fits for your interests? That to me is the biggest issue here, as you may end up applying to schools that you wouldn't be particularly happy to get into. I agree with OH YEAH, the time factor is going to be a big issue when it comes to writing SOPs - you really would need to prioritize the schools that would

PS The CS GRE isn't important unless you want to prove your CS competence - i.e. you've been out of school for a long time or if you come from a particularly unknown place or if you don't have a CS background.

Edited May 11, 2011 by newms

[alexpap]

Thanks for the reply! I really think you understood my situation. Could you tell me what you said ti explain the number of applications that you decided to send out? One reason why I just CANNOT imagine myself going to a low-ranked school is because I'll be taking the PhD that I earn back to my Home Country. The hiring process for academic positions are very different - despite my father being an academic, it may be difficult for him to push things forward for me if my degree is coming from an unknown institution.

But there's another reason: My research interests are broad and inter-related enough to a point where I can find a good "fit" to each of these departments that I've selected (Not interested in top 5 nor Harvard, however). Above all else, it seems like some of the most cutting edge research being conducted in the U.S. occurs at these top 30 institutions; at least the research areas that these schools have research centers and groups in.

P.S. Is it true that the CS GRE isn't important as long as your scores aren't terrible?

To begin with, I don't disagree with the other guys. In fact I think that applying to schools that you don't like might turn bad in the end. That's why I said you have to apply to safe schools that you also like.

I don't know which country you come from (I understood that you are an international too, am I right?), but one thing you should consider is the extra amount of both time and money you have to spend. Translating documents, validating them, paying expensive shipping fees etc. It is not a procedure you can ignore and since you decided it to pursue a PhD you'd better do it right.

I am not sure why you got stuck so much in the reputation. Let's say that you found an amazing professor in a top-40 school, that has a very active lab, with many intriguing projects etc etc. Will you turn this school just because it is not MIT? You are applying for a PhD, YOU will be the one that will work, write papers, make you a distinctive and great science. If you publish in the biggest conferences, journals... and you work along with the greatest minds in your field, do you believe that your potential employers will only see that you haven't graduated from the top-20 schools? And who makes these lists anyway?

Study each university's website carefully, look for their labs, the faculty members, see their projects, their activity, the papers that they publish, their grants. It is not an easy decision, but in the end you will be the one to make it.

P.S. About the GRE subj, I didn't take it and I come from a really unknown university. I found that everything in this procedure is frustratingly relative.

Edited May 11, 2011 by alexpap

[President]

Wow guys, thanks for all of the helpful responses.

I'm an international student currently pursuing a CS undergraduate degree in a 50-75 ranked U.S. institution; my knowledge of the English language is sufficient for passing me up as a native here... but I never got to the point of getting permanent residence or citizenship... really sucks.

Now, let me do the Internet a huge favor by summing things up here (A little verbose, but I think specificity is key when trying to SEO on a forum):

Applying to more than fifteen graduate school departments is not a bad decision. What is most important is that each and every one of the schools that a student applies to is a school that the student is seriously willing to attend if admitted. Applying to many schools, if time and money is not too big of a concern, can only help a person's chances at gaining admission to a desirable PhD program. In addition, as long as a person is able to articulate a good reason to his/her recommenders, he/she should not have to worry about being a "prestige wh0re" for wanting to apply to so many programs.

+Those who seem to have already gone through the admissions process seem to emphasize the importance of taking one's time in preparing a Statement of Purpose.

+My knee-jerk reaction: It is best to make sure that one makes it as convenient as possible for recommendation writers to send in their LORs.

Any additional comments and advise (or corrections to this summarization) would be greatly appreciated !

Cheers!

[the poisoned pawn]

I think a specific ranking like 7th, 12th, ... is rather meaningless. The tier is the better term. Let say MIT, CMU, Berkeley,.. are in tier 1, UCSD, UMass, UMich, .. are in tier 2, OSU, UCI, Chicago, ... are tier 3 and so on.

So, pick several schools that fit your research interest the most in each tier and apply. That was how I did.

[csperson]

My professors told me the acceptance rate is significantly lower if you are an international student.

Most of my American friends applied to ~ 10 schools, and most of my international friends applied to 30 schools.

Of course, if you are really good, then no need to apply to too many schools.

[the poisoned pawn]

My professors told me the acceptance rate is significantly lower if you are an international student.

Most of my American friends applied to ~ 10 schools, and most of my international friends applied to 30 schools.

Of course, if you are really good, then no need to apply to too many schools.

I'm not sure about that though I'm an international student (my undergrad in the U.S). Applying to 30 schools is just insane. I don't think it's necessary or worth it at all to apply more than 15 schools. So far, when I check out the incoming PhD student list at my current school and my future school (both in the top 30 and 20), there are 50 or 60% of American students and 50-40% internationals. Even though, of course, getting admission is tougher for internationals, it is much wiser to optimize your applications rather than mass apply.

My friends back home apply around 10-15 schools and if his/her profile is rather ok, I think that person may be accepted to 2-3 schools.

[President]

I'm not sure about that though I'm an international student (my undergrad in the U.S). Applying to 30 schools is just insane. I don't think it's necessary or worth it at all to apply more than 15 schools. So far, when I check out the incoming PhD student list at my current school and my future school (both in the top 30 and 20), there are 50 or 60% of American students and 50-40% internationals. Even though, of course, getting admission is tougher for internationals, it is much wiser to optimize your applications rather than mass apply.

My friends back home apply around 10-15 schools and if his/her profile is rather ok, I think that person may be accepted to 2-3 schools.

I think 30 school is insane too... I'm probably gonna apply to 15~16 programs - five in super reaches, five semi-reaches, and four targets, and one safety that I'd be willing to attend.