Do profs "size up" incoming students?

[hejduk]

Just wondering people's thoughts, experience, or inside information on this. Do professors "size-up" the incoming doctoral students, or does this maybe already start during campus visits? Or is the "sizing-up" mostly by the already attending students?

[newms]

This question reminded me of this series of blog posts from a post doc. Basically, the author says that profs evaluate us during campus visits (the author writes about pre-admission visits, but profs definitely do evaluate our potential before admission even if we don't visit). I also would imagine that already attending students would be at least curious as to how potential lab mates among incoming students would work with the existing group.

Edited May 17, 2011 by newms

[Eigen]

I know our PI's start sizing up incoming students during applications, and definitely during campus visits. I usually take potential students out, and I know my PI and several others usually ask my opinion of the incoming students.

[rising_star]

Some do, some don't. Some do it based on applications, others do it in the required courses. It all depends on the prof and their style.

Storytime: As a first year student in my MA program, we all took this professional development thing where every prof in the department came in for an hour to tell us what they did, who they worked with, what they taught, and let us ask questions about their research. Each time, we all introduced ourselves and said like one sentence about our interests. One professor was different though. He asked us to guess which statement applied to which student and then read 1-2 lines from each person's statement of purpose that he'd pulled from our files and written down on index cards. Slightly embarrassing, depending on what once had written but good for laughs all around.

[lambspam]

Storytime: As a first year student in my MA program, we all took this professional development thing where every prof in the department came in for an hour to tell us what they did, who they worked with, what they taught, and let us ask questions about their research.

As a side note, I found that course within my MA program to be invaluable and I'm glad to hear it exists in other programs. That's a great place to learn about professors and make an impression by asking relevant, focused questions.

[Eigen]

We had to do a very similar thing as first semester PhD students, it wasn't an official class... But a series of evening presentations. I agree, it was really helpful.

I think a lot of how early PIs start sizing up students depends on how early the students are expected to settle into groups. In our program, you have to have chosen your final group by the last day of your first semester, so things start fast.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Eigen

[runonsentence]

This must be a hard sciences thing (which makes sense, since PIs and incoming students are all doing lab assignment dances).

In a lot of humanities programs, I think, the sizing-up happens in classes and conversations as you work through your first two years of coursework as a PhD.

[hejduk]

In a lot of humanities programs, I think, the sizing-up happens in classes and conversations as you work through your first two years of coursework as a PhD.

I'm in the social sciences, so I'm guessing it's more along the line of what's describe above: "happens in classes & conversations..."

[StrangeLight]

i'm in the social sciences/humanities, and the sizing up happens as soon as you meet your advisor and the other grad students. before admissions, after admissions but before the semester, and then during school itself. i've had several experiences where profs asked grad students to take a prospective student out for coffee on a campus visit and then asked us our impression afterward. i don't know what the profs do with that information, but i doubt it's nothing. i also know that the secretaries communicate to students and professors when they're having difficulty with a particular student, either prospective or attending. they don't simply keep tabs on your academic potential. they also keep tabs on whether or not you're a jerk. i've seen a prof get denied endowed research chair positions because the faculty didn't like the prof's attitude during the job interview, so i'd be surprised if those sorts of considerations aren't also at play for grad students, incoming or attending.

my program has an informal ranking of each grad student. the DGS claims it's just a "list," not a ranking, but it's ordered in descending order based on grad GPA and awards/fellowships won, and it's used to determine who will get future funding. the people with the awards get the awards. the people without do not. so if you're admitted with a few years of departmental fellowships, you're already higher on the totem pole than the grad student admitted only with TAships.

[runonsentence]

i'm in the social sciences/humanities, and the sizing up happens as soon as you meet your advisor and the other grad students. before admissions, after admissions but before the semester, and then during school itself. i've had several experiences where profs asked grad students to take a prospective student out for coffee on a campus visit and then asked us our impression afterward. i don't know what the profs do with that information, but i doubt it's nothing. i also know that the secretaries communicate to students and professors when they're having difficulty with a particular student, either prospective or attending. they don't simply keep tabs on your academic potential. they also keep tabs on whether or not you're a jerk. i've seen a prof get denied endowed research chair positions because the faculty didn't like the prof's attitude during the job interview, so i'd be surprised if those sorts of considerations aren't also at play for grad students, incoming or attending.

my program has an informal ranking of each grad student. the DGS claims it's just a "list," not a ranking, but it's ordered in descending order based on grad GPA and awards/fellowships won, and it's used to determine who will get future funding. the people with the awards get the awards. the people without do not. so if you're admitted with a few years of departmental fellowships, you're already higher on the totem pole than the grad student admitted only with TAships.

Yes, definitely. I don't mean to imply that reputations and impressions aren't important in departments—they certainly are, and (as you mentioned) they're certainly remembered.

But when I arrived in my department, my professors hadn't been reading/reviewing my application materials or my bio to figure out if they wanted to work with me on my research (an experience others in this thread have mentioned—e.g., the quoting of SOP excerpts on the first day); beyond involvement in the adcom, I haven't had the impression that faculty here did any "research" on me as a student. That kind of intellectual "sizing up" has happened for me through coursework and other opportunities over time.

Edited May 21, 2011 by runonsentence