Ungrad GPA

[itacal]

I've read other posts related to this topic, but am still searching for advice, etc. I have a low undergrad GPA(2.99) because of problems in my freshman and sophomore years. I had an extenuating medical condition that took me about 6 years to deal with. After that, I came back and finished my undergrad with above a 3.5 GPA in the last 60 hours. I worked at a news paper for the next six years before returning to grad school for an M.P.A. I will graduate in December 2011 with a 4.0 GPA in my graduate work. My question is, what are my chances for getting into a decent school for a PhD in public policy? Will the secretaries (or whoever) looking through the applications even look at my personal statement before tossing my application?

I have great recommendation letters, won several awards for my writing every year while working at a 40,000 + circulation paper, including journalist of the year for the state, will have multiple internships under my belt when I graduate and, I hope, have a pending publication for one of my current research projects. I haven't taken the GRE yet, but plan to this summer.

Edited May 21, 2011 by itacal

[hbgrad]

You have nothing to worry about! A school that would give a damn about how you did ages ago is a school you do not want to go to anyway! Your medical condition and impressive come back in undergrad will really boost your application. You have a master's too so that really helps. I think you know that you deserve a good school for your PhD but you are just being paranoid and that's normal.

Good luck in your applications!

[itacal]

You have nothing to worry about! A school that would give a damn about how you did ages ago is a school you do not want to go to anyway! Your medical condition and impressive come back in undergrad will really boost your application. You have a master's too so that really helps. I think you know that you deserve a good school for your PhD but you are just being paranoid and that's normal.

Good luck in your applications!

But isn't that the point, I have everything to worry about, because undergrad grades will make or break your chances? Will they look beyond the undergrad GPA before they toss my application in the garbage? And do I explain the medical condition or will that hurt me? Since no one here knows me or has any way of knowing who I am, I will elaborate. I am bi-polar manic depressive. I was diagnosed in fall of 1998. I tried to return to school a couple of times immediately after the diagnosis, but could not. In all, I dropped out of school seven times as a result of manic episodes. I did not handle this whole thing well, I will be the first to admit, but I got my act together, learned how to deal with things and came back a few years later and finished my degree. Will having to explain this hurt my chances. I know how manic people are viewed. I was told my an admissions counselor at the state law school that having to explain this could go either way — on the one hand, you dealt with it and moved on; on the other hand, you're bi-polar.

Is there really a chance here or am I screwed? Please be brutally honest.

Edited May 22, 2011 by itacal

[runonsentence]

But isn't that the point, I have everything to worry about, because undergrad grades will make or break your chances? Will they look beyond the undergrad GPA before they toss my application in the garbage? And do I explain the medical condition or will that hurt me? Since no one here knows me or has any way of knowing who I am, I will elaborate. I am bi-polar manic depressive. I was diagnosed in fall of 1998. I tried to return to school a couple of times immediately after the diagnosis, but could not. In all, I dropped out of school seven times as a result of manic episodes. I did not handle this whole thing well, I will be the first to admit, but I got my act together, learned how to deal with things and came back a few years later and finished my degree. Will having to explain this hurt my chances. I know how manic people are viewed. I was told my an admissions counselor at the state law school that having to explain this could go either way — on the one hand, you dealt with it and moved on; on the other hand, you're bi-polar.

Is there really a chance here or am I screwed? Please be brutally honest.

[/quot

Your work in your master's degree—which seems to be stellar—is far more important than your undergrad GPA. Could something like your undergrad GPA come into play if they're deciding between you and one other candidate for a spot? Perhaps. Will it mean that they'll throw your application in the garbage? I'd say no.

In my field anyway, the most important parts of the application are the SoP, writing sample, and LoR. And I'd say that in any field, your most recent work history (especially graduate-level work) is far more important than something so far in the past and that you do have some very legitimate explanations for.

Is it going to be a challenge to spin your SoP the right way? Absolutely. But I think you can do it. Have a ton of people read it, and write/revise that thing to death, and you've certainly got a shot. Your M.A. history shows that you can successfully overcome the obstacles of your medical condition: emphasize this in your SoP.

[itacal]

O.K., so for what programs should I be aiming? I arrived at the M.P.A. at my current university through a back door, so to speak. I graduated from the journalism department and came back six years later to pursue a masters in journalism. Made one documentary film, swore I'd never make another and switched to the M.P.A. I say "back door" because I didn't have to officially apply or anything. I was already in the graduate school and had taken classes in the public admin. department, so I was just ushered in through the "back door." It's a pretty good program, but I think it would be a waste to spend the time and money on a PhD. from the state school I currently attend. And if I'm going to go through the time and expense of pursuing a PhD., what programs are open to me? Those of you that know, and there are many of you that know infinitely more about these schools than I do), please offer suggestions. I really like George Washington (Who doesn't, right?) and George Mason, because of their programs and the fact that they are near D.C. I also liked the University of Maryland, Baltimore County and the University of Nebraska, Omaha (Not anywhere near D.C., I know). Of course, there are several others — Berkeley, USC and Syracuse, to name a few — but I'm trying to be realistic. I know GWU is probably way out of my league, but does anyone know about George Mason, Maryland BC, and Nebraska? (I don't seriously plan to apply to Berkeley, USC and Syracuse.)

Thanks

[Eigen]

I would say you stand right on the fence: some places you will not be able to get in because of hard and fast minimum undergraduate GPA requirements (usually 3.0). These can sometimes be waived, but require action above the department level to do so. There are cases you can find on the board of people who were both successful and unsuccessful in this.

On the other hand, there are plenty of schools without hard and fast minimum GPA requirements who will think your masters work and work experience makes you an extremely attractive candidate.

Just do your research on the schools you want to apply to, and if you come across one with a stated minimum GPA for the graduate school, send an e-mail to ask the chances of waiving it due to your masters work.

[lambspam]

Unfortunately, the stigma against mental illnesses exists even in academia. My advice is to just say in your SOP that you had a medical issue (without getting specific), and then find a way to demonstrate that it no longer impacts your work. Don't spend more than a sentence or two on it, since most of your SOP should be about how awesome and qualified you are.

[Mal83]

I like the idea of contacting admissions before applying...or before getting too attached to a program and explaining your situation, not about the illness issue but that you've experienced hardships in your undergrad career and therefore came in at just under a 3.0 GPA, however...and this is a huge however, you now have a 4.0 in your master's program, will the undergrad GPA automatically disqualify you? Something to that effect. If they tell you your entire app will be discarded because of that one bad number then you know what...let 'em go and move on. You'll find one where your stats will be valued. Some programs have SOP topics like "describe overcoming a hardship or challenge in your life..." I mean I haven't looked into phD applications but I've seen that type of essay requirement for some schools. You really have the great advantage of time on your side, you're starting this early enough where you can research, seek advice here, and more importantly from admissions committees themselves.

Personally I just can't see how a low undergrad GPA would matter after a 4.0 graduate one, not everyone sails through undergrad, but you've bounced back in a huge way. I think you have a lot of options, what program you want has to be up to you and that's a good thing. Plus, if you're willing to shell out the application fee at least for a one or two schools that might seem beyond your reach, you just might get in because admission depends on the entire package not just the numbers as well as how you stack up against the rest of the applicant pool. How many other applicants in the pile will boast a 4.0 graduate GPA? Not sure, but that makes you competitive I'm sure. Plus if you can manage solid GRE scores that's even better.

I just got done responding to another "low GPA thread" and like yours, it mentions George Washington University. I actually have to admit that I get some kind of satisfaction out of responding to these because I'm living proof that despite slightly lower than average stats it is very possible to get into a dream school...GWU. I was waitlisted back in March and finally a week ago I got my acceptance email. I was so shocked, at that point in the game I had written it off and was satisfied with going to George Mason, it's a decent school for sure and some of it's programs are more competitive than others, but it's not quite as selective as GW...which is fine, I was very happy to receive an acceptance. I was rejected by American U and waitlisted at GW...but I had at least one school that wanted me. Sure I wasn't a top pick in the first round at GW, but enough people declined and I was ranked high enough to get one of those spots. I took it without hesitation as soon as it was offered. My undergrad GPA is a 3.35 while GW's average is 3.5. My GRE scores are V570, Q550, W4.5, the V and Q scores are lower than their average, but the W score fits right in. I was a little worried but I was sure I had a chance because I have 2 years of Peace Corps experience and a high level of foreign language proficiency, my BA (international studies) is a perfect foundation for graduate study in an International Development program. So my course of study and international experience combined along with not so bad numbers have created a good enough package to get me into this phenomenal program. It's all about the whole application. I was passionate and confident in my SOP, I worked on it for at least a month and had it proofread by others. I also was able to express exactly what direction I want to take in ID so they know that with me they're getting someone who knows what they want to do and won't waste anytime getting to it. Plus my recommendations came from professors who gave me A's in their classes so I had done top notch work with them. I had a third letter from my PC manager who really came up with a beautiful recommendation. There are also some success stories from applicants here with very low undergrad GPAs and getting accepted right off the bat so really it's about the package you present to the admissions committees.