MA Options

[BobGant]

Hello,

This fall, I plan to apply to grad school programs in Classics. My (well-ranked) department says that I would be competitive for admissions at top PhD programs, but I'm unsure I want to commit to a program of that length. For this reason, I'm looking into M.A. (and to a lesser extent, M.A.T.) programs. I am not, however, willing to take any debt to get such a degree, so I'm looking for programs that offer full tuition remission and a stipend, even if not every student receives those. I've managed to find a few such programs, including Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, UArizona, UToronto, and WUSTL. I also want to be challenged by my program, though. For example, my current Latin reading list exceeds Arizona's in both breadth and depth, while my Greek reading list is of comparable breadth at not significantly less depth. I suspect that such a program would not adequately challenge me during the course of the degree, if that's what students aim for in their time at the program. Apart from the programs I've listed, are there strong, funded M.A. programs in Classics? If not, what are some possible alternatives? I would prefer not to apply to Ph.D. programs, even though I could possibly leave with an M.A., though I may do so if there are no better options. Any advice would be greatly welcomed.

[Rendar]

I'd say you'd be pretty hard up to find well funded MA programs. I noticed you listed UToronto but anything at the Master's level in Canada is going to be a bit below what you'd get for an MA/PhD sort of stream at an American school. It's also probably not a full stipend but TA work. I know a few people that have gone to Toronto for their MAs and while they had TA work their tuition wasn't paid as far as I know. I could be completely wrong on that.

On that note, you may also want to check U Alberta. The administration could use some work, but there are some fantastic profs and the program is quite excellent. Funding is also decent but they can definitely wait around announcing funds to MA students (as can UBC for that matter).

Anyways, there's my two cents regarding some Canadian options. Good luck in your funding search!

[ogulnia]

I'd say you'd be pretty hard up to find well funded MA programs. I noticed you listed UToronto but anything at the Master's level in Canada is going to be a bit below what you'd get for an MA/PhD sort of stream at an American school. It's also probably not a full stipend but TA work. I know a few people that have gone to Toronto for their MAs and while they had TA work their tuition wasn't paid as far as I know. I could be completely wrong on that.

On that note, you may also want to check U Alberta. The administration could use some work, but there are some fantastic profs and the program is quite excellent. Funding is also decent but they can definitely wait around announcing funds to MA students (as can UBC for that matter).

Anyways, there's my two cents regarding some Canadian options. Good luck in your funding search!

idk if you're looking at Canadian options more than US ones, but there are quite a lot of funded MA programs in Ontario now: off the top of my head I can think of UWO, Queen's, Brock, and I think UWaterloo now has one too. There's been a big push toward graduate expansion in ON so UofT is not the only choice (although it's still the top ranked one).

[Ardea]

Here's a list of MA programs. I don't know how many of them are funded.

http://classicaljournal.org/MA-programs.php

I've heard FSU offers pretty good funding, and it has a good reputation. My interests lie in archaeology, so I don't know how its language offerings are.

[BobGant]

Thank you all for your help. I'd gladly consider Canadian programs, providing the funding is right. I have some sense of the cost of living in Montreal, but I don't know about other major cities - that's something that I can easily research, though. UToronto's website claims that they provide funding ($15,000 + tuition) for their 1 year MA program but not for the first year of the 2 year program. I'll look into those other programs - most of those Canadian programs are new to me, and a couple on the Classical Journal's list aren't schools I've looked at, as well. FSU seems to offer very good funding to in-state residents, so I'll look into how easily I'd qualify as an in-state resident after the first year. Their archaeology program seems very strong, though I can't really tell about their philology program. Many of the graduate courses have the same description and works read as the undergraduate versions, so it's hard to tell what else the classes involve above the undergraduate workload.

I ultimately expect to apply to no more than 5 programs, so I will do more research in the coming weeks to identify the best fits for me among these and any other programs I find.

[ikatticus]

Thank you all for your help. I'd gladly consider Canadian programs, providing the funding is right. I have some sense of the cost of living in Montreal, but I don't know about other major cities - that's something that I can easily research, though. UToronto's website claims that they provide funding ($15,000 + tuition) for their 1 year MA program but not for the first year of the 2 year program.

I'm heading to UofT in September to start the 1 year MA and have been told that I will receive a minimum of $15,000 as a living stipend, and they will be paying my fees (as I am an international student that's about $17,000+). That is partially made up of a TAship, but I think that's fair enough really - if they're paying that much they're going to want their pound of flesh!

The funding package was definitely what attracted me to them, so yay UofT!

[Veilside1]

I am currently in the MA program at UArizona and nearly every student is fully-funded. Your tuition is paid in full, health insurance, and you are given a GAT stipend of either .25, .33, or .50 the salary of an instructor. You will get .25 (which is about $350.00 every two weeks) if you are TA-ing; .33 (about $420 every two weeks) if you are teaching Latin-101/2, and .50 (about $700 every two weeks) if you do double-duty as a TA.

I know that Tulane and Tufts also offer decent scholarships for the MA, but Tulane is just a glorified undergraduate program, and Tufts is falling apart.

Good luck!!

[LateAntique]

Notre Dame has also just begun a fully-funded Classics MA. classics.nd.edu

[sacklunch]

I am currently in the MA program at UArizona and nearly every student is fully-funded. Your tuition is paid in full, health insurance, and you are given a GAT stipend of either .25, .33, or .50 the salary of an instructor. You will get .25 (which is about $350.00 every two weeks) if you are TA-ing; .33 (about $420 every two weeks) if you are teaching Latin-101/2, and .50 (about $700 every two weeks) if you do double-duty as a TA.

I know that Tulane and Tufts also offer decent scholarships for the MA, but Tulane is just a glorified undergraduate program, and Tufts is falling apart.

Good luck!!

Great info, thanks! I'm considering applying for their MA program (ancient history) and I'm curious: how much language does a typical student have before arriving? I have quite a bit of Greek (among Hebrew, ect), but only a year of Latin. I emailed one of the professors there about this, but haven't heard back yet. I was unsure if 1 year of Latin would be considered enough. The website says (for ancient history) to have one advanced (Greek covered) and intermediate level of the other -- but was unsure if this applied before being admitted, or acquired during your time there.

thanks mate!

[Veilside1]

Great info, thanks! I'm considering applying for their MA program (ancient history) and I'm curious: how much language does a typical student have before arriving? I have quite a bit of Greek (among Hebrew, ect), but only a year of Latin. I emailed one of the professors there about this, but haven't heard back yet. I was unsure if 1 year of Latin would be considered enough. The website says (for ancient history) to have one advanced (Greek covered) and intermediate level of the other -- but was unsure if this applied before being admitted, or acquired during your time there.

thanks mate!

Well, if your accepted, during the week prior to the beginning of the fall semester you will take a Greek and Latin diagnostic exams (no dictionary) to determine what level of Greek and Latin you are placed in. The exam is not too bad, you get three passages choose two if memory serves. Nothing too difficult (no Thucydides, Tacitus, etc,..).

As far as how much ancient language is needed in order to get accepted? I would say that have one be at the upper-level undergraduate level and therefore ready for graduate-level, and the other at the 200-level ready for the upper undergrad (400) level. Not sure who it was that you emailed, but some professors recently retired this last spring and a few others are on sabbatical this year.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Veilside1

[sacklunch]

Well, if your accepted, during the week prior to the beginning of the fall semester you will take a Greek and Latin diagnostic exams (no dictionary) to determine what level of Greek and Latin you are placed in. The exam is not too bad, you get three passages choose two if memory serves. Nothing too difficult (no Thucydides, Tacitus, etc,..).

As far as how much ancient language is needed in order to get accepted? I would say that have one be at the upper-level undergraduate level and therefore ready for graduate-level, and the other at the 200-level ready for the upper undergrad (400) level. Not sure who it was that you emailed, but some professors recently retired this last spring and a few others are on sabbatical this year.

Doesn't sound too bad, although a bit terrifying . I emailed Vivante about admissions questions (says she is the grad director on the site). What emphasis are you in?

best

[BobGant]

I am currently in the MA program at UArizona and nearly every student is fully-funded. Your tuition is paid in full, health insurance, and you are given a GAT stipend of either .25, .33, or .50 the salary of an instructor. You will get .25 (which is about $350.00 every two weeks) if you are TA-ing; .33 (about $420 every two weeks) if you are teaching Latin-101/2, and .50 (about $700 every two weeks) if you do double-duty as a TA.

I know that Tulane and Tufts also offer decent scholarships for the MA, but Tulane is just a glorified undergraduate program, and Tufts is falling apart.

Good luck!!

Thanks for the information! To what extent does one get to choose which of those options one pursues? The .25 number doesn't really seem to be competitive with the funding offered at other programs I'm considering in areas with similar costs of living (unless it's after tax), and even the .33 number appears to be in the lower range too. Have you been able to get by without needing any loans?

Macchiato, I've looked at Notre Dame's program and I'm leaning away from applying - at present, it really seems the focus is on Early Christian Latin, which is understandable but not really one of my areas of interest. I haven't decided for sure, but I suspect that it's not the right program for me.

For those interested in funded MA programs, I've determined that UKansas offers funding on the order of $13k/year for all students in its MA program. Vanderbilt really seems to beat everyone else when it comes to funding, especially considering the low CoL, as well.

[sacklunch]

Thanks for the information! To what extent does one get to choose which of those options one pursues? The .25 number doesn't really seem to be competitive with the funding offered at other programs I'm considering in areas with similar costs of living (unless it's after tax), and even the .33 number appears to be in the lower range too. Have you been able to get by without needing any loans?

Macchiato, I've looked at Notre Dame's program and I'm leaning away from applying - at present, it really seems the focus is on Early Christian Latin, which is understandable but not really one of my areas of interest. I haven't decided for sure, but I suspect that it's not the right program for me.

For those interested in funded MA programs, I've determined that UKansas offers funding on the order of $13k/year for all students in its MA program. Vanderbilt really seems to beat everyone else when it comes to funding, especially considering the low CoL, as well.

I grew up in Kansas City and had/have a lot of friends in Lawrence. It's a cool town and is obviously cheap (college town). I was also considering applying to there. Notre Dame would be fantastic, but don't they take like 2-3 people a year? If so, that has to be one of the most competitive programs out there, no?

[BobGant]

I grew up in Kansas City and had/have a lot of friends in Lawrence. It's a cool town and is obviously cheap (college town). I was also considering applying to there. Notre Dame would be fantastic, but don't they take like 2-3 people a year? If so, that has to be one of the most competitive programs out there, no?

The professor at UKansas with whom I spoke was very helpful and seemed genuinely excited that I had contacted him about the program. I'm truly looking forward to applying.

As for Notre Dame, I don't have a sense of how competitive it is, just that my department, based on past students, believes that I would be competitive at top tier PhD programs - my concern is that I don't really fit with the program, which focuses more on Christian Latin. I suspect that would hurt my chances of acceptance, and I doubt I'd find the program my best option.

[sacklunch]

The professor at UKansas with whom I spoke was very helpful and seemed genuinely excited that I had contacted him about the program. I'm truly looking forward to applying.

As for Notre Dame, I don't have a sense of how competitive it is, just that my department, based on past students, believes that I would be competitive at top tier PhD programs - my concern is that I don't really fit with the program, which focuses more on Christian Latin. I suspect that would hurt my chances of acceptance, and I doubt I'd find the program my best option.

Any idea how many KU takes each year?

[LateAntique]

Hi Bob,

The name's LateAntique, not Macchiato (they give coffee drink 'rankings' depending upon how much you have posted - you have to look above for names).

The focus here is definitely not Christian Latin. The majority of our Latinists in Classics are not people who do Patristics. Brian Krostenko, Katie Schlegel, Martin Bloomer (who teaches both Greek and Latin courses), Liz Mazurek, Tadeusz Mazurek, etc., are all Latinists who do work in Classical stuff. Krostenko last semester taught a course on "Cicero, Augustine, and Rhetoric" which focused on Cicero while engaging other, later authors. The majority of Latin classes are also not Christian Latin.

One may focus at ND in Late Antiquity if they would like, but they don't have to.

And yes, the plan is to only allow 2-3 in per year. The tuition is funded and comes with a small stipend which would need to be supplemented by either TAing or having a spouse who works or something.

Edited August 24, 2011 by LateAntique

[LateAntique]

Also, just to make sure you know, Bob, ND's program is a terminal M.A. We currently do not have a Ph.D in Classics here.

[BobGant]

Based on what I was told and the information on their webpage, I'd guess it's around 8-12 a year who matriculate (and so likely more accepted). They have 10 grad TAs across the first and second year graduate students, and all students are either a TA or a research assistant. Unfortunately, I don't have any better guess than that.

Sorry about the name mixup, LateAntique! I'm looking for MA programs rather than PhDs, but just saying that my profile would be competitive for top PhD programs and so competitiveness of a program would not discourage me from applying. The sense I got from reading the blurb about each professor on the departmental webpage is that the department is much more heavily focused on late antiquity than I'm used to - my undergrad school has only 2 professors who deal with Late Antiquity (1 in Latin, 1 in Greek), and so this feels substantially more geared towards that time period than I'm used to. I did not find any faculty members who focused primarily in my areas of interest...the problem, however, is that I can't seem to find such specialization except at PhD programs. This is why I haven't excluded Notre Dame from my search yet.

I'm still trying to get a sense of the intensity of classes at these programs...what I've heard about the workload feels incredibly light, but I imagine I must be underestimating it. I also come from a school where 1 course is 4 credit hours, which may explain why the number of credits expected seems so low...

[sacklunch]

Hi Bob,

The name's LateAntique, not Macchiato (they give coffee drink 'rankings' depending upon how much you have posted - you have to look above for names).

The focus here is definitely not Christian Latin. The majority of our Latinists in Classics are not people who do Patristics. Brian Krostenko, Katie Schlegel, Martin Bloomer (who teaches both Greek and Latin courses), Liz Mazurek, Tadeusz Mazurek, etc., are all Latinists who do work in Classical stuff. Krostenko last semester taught a course on "Cicero, Augustine, and Rhetoric" which focused on Cicero while engaging other, later authors. The majority of Latin classes are also not Christian Latin.

One may focus at ND in Late Antiquity if they would like, but they don't have to.

And yes, the plan is to only allow 2-3 in per year. The tuition is funded and comes with a small stipend which would need to be supplemented by either TAing or having a spouse who works or something.

The website FAQ for MA in early Christianity says: What time period is most focused upon in courses offerings?

The program is focused on the early Christian period (roughly from the 2nd century through the 5th in the West or from the 2 nd through the 8 th century in the East).

How true is this? I would consider applying, but that is later than my area of interest (broadly Second Temple).

[LateAntique]

The website FAQ for MA in early Christianity says: What time period is most focused upon in courses offerings?

The program is focused on the early Christian period (roughly from the 2nd century through the 5th in the West or from the 2 nd through the 8 th century in the East).

How true is this? I would consider applying, but that is later than my area of interest (broadly Second Temple).

The MA in Early Christian Studies is naturally geared towards the Patristic era. We do have people whose interests are more Biblical Studies and they manage to do basically what they want in the program. There was a guy a couple of years ago who basically made the MA in ECS into an OT MA. He's now doing CJA in the Theology Ph.D program focusing on OT. Just within my year there are people whose interests run all the way to the OT up through the Reformation. We're a diverse bunch and the program likes to attract diverse people.

The MA in Early Christian Studies should not be confused with the MA in Classics. Though they are both housed in Classics, ECS is technically co-sponsored by the Theology department. The MA in Classics is your usual Classics MA, although you can focus on late antiquity as stated above.

[sacklunch]

Makes sense, thanks a lot for the information. I might consider applying for a second masters in the ECS if they allow diversity. I am looking for programs that combine classics/theology, and strangely enough there are only a handful I have found.

thanks mate