Strangefox Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Hi guys! Could anybody please explain to me how this SSN thing works. Will I be able to receive it once I am in the US? Or perhaps I must receive it, if am funded by my school? Perhaps I must have it to get my stipend? If I can get SSN (actually, I would prefer to), how is it done? I guess I need to get it through my school, right? Thanks!
newms Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Hi Strangefox, I'll be getting one too. My school has a page for international students on how to get a SSN - perhaps your school has one too? F-1 students can get a SSN if they'll be employed on campus (RA/TA) or if they have approval for off-campus work. You'll need a letter from you employer (your school) as well as your I-94 card (which you'll fill out when you arrive in the US - it's a square white card they usually staple in your passport), your I-20 form, your passport, and this application form. I'm not sure if you have to get a SSN, but the SSN is useful to have in the US since to apply for many things (such as bank loans, or driver's licenses) it's often necessary. Edited June 23, 2011 by newms Strangefox 1
Strangefox Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 Hi Strangefox, I'll be getting one too. My school has a page for international students on how to get a SSN - perhaps your school has one too? F-1 students can get a SSN if they'll be employed on campus (RA/TA) or if they have approval for off-campus work. You'll need a letter from you employer (your school) as well as your I-94 card (which you'll fill out when you arrive in the US - it's a square white card they usually staple in your passport), your I-20 form, your passport, and this application form. I'm not sure if you have to get a SSN, but the SSN is useful to have in the US since to apply for many things (such as bank loans, or driver's licenses) it's often necessary. Hey Newms, thanks for the reply I agree that SSN is useful so I would prefer to get one. However, the problem is that according to my fellowship's rules, I will work only the 3nd and 4th years as a TA/RA and the first two years I am not required to work (and I probably won't, better dedicate more time to studying and research). So may be in my case they won't give me SSN until my 3rd year... I will search for a page on my school's website about SSN's... Actually, among other things I want to get SSN in order to make an ID card. My friend recommended me to do that in order not to have to carry my passport around. Have you thought about getting an ID card (and I don't mean the one from your school)?
newms Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Hey Newms, thanks for the reply I agree that SSN is useful so I would prefer to get one. However, the problem is that according to my fellowship's rules, I will work only the 3nd and 4th years as a TA/RA and the first two years I am not required to work (and I probably won't, better dedicate more time to studying and research). So may be in my case they won't give me SSN until my 3rd year... I will search for a page on my school's website about SSN's... Actually, among other things I want to get SSN in order to make an ID card. My friend recommended me to do that in order not to have to carry my passport around. Have you thought about getting an ID card (and I don't mean the one from your school)? Well, I plan on getting a driver's license as soon as I can (even if I don't get a car for a while) so I'll be using that as ID. I think some (all?) states have a state ID card that can be used for ID purposes like a driver's license, so that would be a good alternative to having to carry your passport as ID. Edited June 23, 2011 by newms
newms Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Hey Newms, thanks for the reply I agree that SSN is useful so I would prefer to get one. However, the problem is that according to my fellowship's rules, I will work only the 3nd and 4th years as a TA/RA and the first two years I am not required to work (and I probably won't, better dedicate more time to studying and research). So may be in my case they won't give me SSN until my 3rd year... Actually, I think you should still be able to get a SSN. I googled and came across this page from Ohio State University that shows how F-1 students with fellowships can get a SSN at OSU. Chances are, your school would have similar procedures for F-1 fellowship students.
Strangefox Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 Well, I plan on getting a driver's license as soon as I can (even if I don't get a car for a while) so I'll be using that as ID. I think some (all?) states have a state ID card that can be used for ID purposes like a driver's license, so that would be a good alternative to having to carry your passport as ID. I guess my friend ment this state ID card. Anyway, seems like I will need SSN to get it. Because I don't have a driving licence, never had...
Strangefox Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 Actually, I think you should still be able to get a SSN. I googled and came across this page from Ohio State University that shows how F-1 students with fellowships can get a SSN at OSU. Chances are, your school would have similar procedures for F-1 fellowship students. Thanks a lot! Now I just need to find a similar page on my school's webite...
newms Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Because I don't have a driving licence, never had... You could still get a US drivers licence when you reach the States. So if you ultimately want to be able to drive at some point while you're in the States then you could look into it.
Strangefox Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 You could still get a US drivers licence when you reach the States. So if you ultimately want to be able to drive at some point while you're in the States then you could look into it. Ok, I'll keep it as an option but I'll look into SSN and a state ID card first
hahahut Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 My understanding is having a SSN is not just for ID convenience. Many credit check is based on SSN. So without a SSN (and a bit credit history), it would be much harder to get credit card, contracted phone, etc.
tew Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) A SSN can definitely be useful, especially for an extended stay. However, at least from my own limited experience, it's possible to make do without one: When I got to the US last time, I was first told that I was ineligible for a SSN. Still, I didn't really have much trouble getting a driver's license (CA) and bank account / credit card (BoA). Just had to show my passport and immigration forms. State ID is just driver's license without the driving part, so I don't think it will be different. A bit later it turned out that I wasn't ineligible but was actually required to get a SSN after all ^^. Edited June 24, 2011 by tew
Strangefox Posted June 24, 2011 Author Posted June 24, 2011 A SSN can definitely be useful, especially for an extended stay. However, at least from my own limited experience, it's possible to make do without one: When I got to the US last time, I was first told that I was ineligible for a SSN. Still, I didn't really have much trouble getting a driver's license (CA) and bank account / credit card (BoA). Just had to show my passport and immigration forms. State ID is just driver's license without the driving part, so I don't think it will be different. A bit later it turned out that I wasn't ineligible but was actually required to get a SSN after all ^^. So who misinformed you about your eligibility? Was it your Office of International Students?
squaresquared Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 I thought you can only get a SSN if you are being paid for something -- like having a job and receiving a salary. I don't think you can get an SSN 'just because'.
tew Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 So who misinformed you about your eligibility? Was it your Office of International Students? Honestly, I don't remember exactly anymore who told me what. Initially I was told I couldn't get one because I wasn't actually getting paid / employed. Then, I believe it was at an orientation for the specific class of exchange visitors I was in ("Visiting Student Researcher"), they told us that we actually needed to get one.
Strangefox Posted June 24, 2011 Author Posted June 24, 2011 I thought you can only get a SSN if you are being paid for something -- like having a job and receiving a salary. I don't think you can get an SSN 'just because'. That's the thing: I will be paid - a stipend. And some people are saying that it is enough for getting a SSN.
fuzzylogician Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 That's the thing: I will be paid - a stipend. And some people are saying that it is enough for getting a SSN. You can get a SSN if you're on a J-1 visa. On an F-1 visa, AFAIK you can't get a SSN if you're on a fellowship - you have to be working and getting a salary, so the question is where your stipend funding is coming from. The administrators in your program should be able to tell you that. It may also be possible to get a part-time job in your department/school that will allow you to get a SSN - e.g. working at the library, in the office, etc. It doesn't have to pay much, it just has to be an actual salary, as opposed to a stipend. Even if you don't get a SSN right away, though, it's entirely possible to get by without one. Even with one you're not going to have a credit history so you may have to pay higher deposits and some landlords may like you less. But otherwise you should get one if you can, but not worry too much if you can't. You need to get a waiver if you can't in order to be able to be issued a State ID (sometimes also known as a liquor ID), but it's not hard to get. I'm sure the International Student Office, administrators in your program or older students can tell you what to do.
Strangefox Posted June 25, 2011 Author Posted June 25, 2011 You need to get a waiver if you can't in order to be able to be issued a State ID (sometimes also known as a liquor ID), but it's not hard to get. By waiver you mean a sort of rejection indicating that I can't get SSN yet, right?
fuzzylogician Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 By waiver you mean a sort of rejection indicating that I can't get SSN yet, right? Yes. I don't know how you get it (I didn't have to) but it can't be too complicated.
Ninevah Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) That's the thing: I will be paid - a stipend. And some people are saying that it is enough for getting a SSN. That's enough for a SSN. You'll need to pay taxes on the stipend and this is the way IRS (the tax people) keep track on you. Your school will explain you how you get the SSN - it's not hard, you just fill some documents and then wait for the card with the number. Which reminds me, when you fill out the payroll documents on campus MAKE SURE that you or the payroll person check whether your country has some kind of a tax treaty with the US - this can save you some bucks. Edited June 27, 2011 by Ninevah
Strangefox Posted June 27, 2011 Author Posted June 27, 2011 That's enough for a SSN. You'll need to pay taxes on the stipend and this is the way IRS (the tax people) keep track on you. Your school will explain you how you get the SSN - it's not hard, you just fill some documents and then wait for the card with the number. Which reminds me, when you fill out the payroll documents on campus MAKE SURE that you or the payroll person check whether your country has some kind of a tax treaty with the US - this can save you some bucks. Thanks a lot for the advice!
fuzzylogician Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 That's enough for a SSN. You'll need to pay taxes on the stipend and this is the way IRS (the tax people) keep track on you. Your school will explain you how you get the SSN - it's not hard, you just fill some documents and then wait for the card with the number. Which reminds me, when you fill out the payroll documents on campus MAKE SURE that you or the payroll person check whether your country has some kind of a tax treaty with the US - this can save you some bucks. That's not necessarily true -- it depends on the source of your funding and the definition of your status. If you're getting a fellowship, you don't get a SSN. If you're on an assistantship, you may be able to get one. More generally, you get a SSN if you get payed for work, and you don't otherwise. It's complicated, though: you may serve as a TA but still be on a fellowship and therefore not be able to get a SSN. Some people prefer to be on a fellowship for a number of reasons - being on a fellowship allows you to work in addition to TAing (whereas if you're on an assistantship it's automatically defined as if you're working the maximum allowed number of hours per week that international students are allowed to work, regardless of how many hours you actually work), and it's usually better for tax reasons which I expand on below [i've been learning about funding sources and tax treaties recently in my capacity as student rep for my department, so I know what I'm talking about here, at least for my school; I assume that these money issues are general but as always, you should find out for yourself]. The money people in your program will be those who know best about your funding and SSN options. You don't have to have a SSN to pay taxes: people who can't get one are assigned an ITIN number which is used for the purpose of identification with the IRS. As for tax treaties, it's helpful to straighten it out with payroll right away but if they do deduct more taxes from your income than they should, you'll get it back when you file your taxes in April. Again, how much you'll get back may depend on the source of your income. In most cases, countries that do have treaties with the US have better conditions for fellowships than for assistantships. But be sure to read about the treaty your country has with the US or ask other students in your program; in some cases, the treaties may not be that helpful at all. For example - I know of treaties that are valid for e.g. 3 years and give a full refund on all taxes, but state that if you stay in the US for more than 3 years you have to pay back everything you were refunded. You don't want to get hit with a bill for several thousand dollars down the road, so it's good to know these things now. Or in some cases, the exemption is from an amount so low that the treaty will never apply to you. But in other cases you can save several thousand dollars by being on the right kind of funding so it's definitely worth knowing the details and being proactive. There are many factors that go into deciding what kind of funding each student gets, but you can at least try and ask to be on the kind that helps you most.
Strangefox Posted June 27, 2011 Author Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) For example - I know of treaties that are valid for e.g. 3 years and give a full refund on all taxes, but state that if you stay in the US for more than 3 years you have to pay back everything you were refunded. You don't want to get hit with a bill for several thousand dollars down the road, so it's good to know these things now. Oh, what a terrible situation that would be! So if I find out that I will eventually have to pay back everything refunded - will I be able to refuse to get the rufund during these three years? Otherwise I will have to put this money aside anyway. Better not to get it at all. Edited June 27, 2011 by Strangefox
fuzzylogician Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Oh, what a terrible situation that would be! So if I find out that I will eventually have to pay back everything refunded - will I be able to refuse to get the rufund during these three years? Otherwise I will have to put this money aside anyway. Better not to get it at all. hm, I don't really know and I suggest you don't worry about it until you are actually in that situation (most treaties are much better..). I only know about it because the issue of funding and treaties came up in a recent student meeting in my department so I've been talking to money people about it. I don't know if it's possible to not claim a treaty (it may be, thinking about it) and anyway it may still be more desirable to have the money to yourself instead of paying it to the government right away--maybe you could earn some interest on the money for those three years--but it's absolutely no fun to suddenly find out that you have to pay a whole lot of money so it's important to learn about these things.
Ninevah Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 So if I find out that I will eventually have to pay back everything refunded - will I be able to refuse to get the rufund during these three years? Otherwise I will have to put this money aside anyway. Better not to get it at all. Well, as usual, that's how it's supposed to work on theory. In practice, however, nobody checks or communicates between the bureaucracies. But you should check with your school and/or read the treaties yourself (they are available online).
Strangefox Posted June 27, 2011 Author Posted June 27, 2011 but it's absolutely no fun to suddenly find out that you have to pay a whole lot of money so it's important to learn about these things. Yep, that is what I am trying to do - learn about all this funding and taxes and god knows what stuff. And I must say it is such a hassle!
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